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  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User AH2525's Avatar
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    Delica for defense

    I know there are more "purpose built" defensive knives than the Delica, but in terms of being inconspicuous, readily available, etc. I was wondering 2 things:

    1. Are there any resources (videos, books, articles, etc.) focused on the delica for self-defense carry?

    and

    2. What are other folks opinion(s) of this choice?

    Thanks everybody,

    Tom

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User D1omedes's Avatar
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    I think the illustrious Mr. Michael Janich will be able to answer your questions.

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    Dear Tom:

    The Delica is an outstanding knife that meets the needs of personal defense extremely well. I have been carrying two of them on a daily basis for about 10 years and train with them regularly (largely thanks to the fact that Spyderco makes a purpose-designed training version of the knife).

    I also typically use a Delica in my "pork man" cutting demonstrations in which I use a target constructed of a pork roast lashed around a wooden dowel (to represent bone) and covered with numerous layers of plastic wrap (to replicate skin). I cover this with a leg feom a pair of jeans and illustrate that a single cut from a well-designed, properly sharpened three-inch blade will cut the target "to the bone," representing disabling that limb. This is demonstrated in this video on YouTube (which I actually produced for local law enforcement and never intended for the YouTube audience):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PWmR...next=1&index=6

    As for information on using a Delica responsibly, I recommend my video "Martial Blade Concepts: The Enhanced Version," which is available exclusively from Stay Safe Media:

    http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=83

    It specifically addresses the use of small, legally -ermissible knives like the Delica as personal defense weapons, focusing on the idea of understanding their potential, understanding human anatomy, and using that knowledge to reliably stop an attacker.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike
    Michael Janich
    Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
    Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Wow. I was going to say "yes, I've been carrying one for > 10 years for exactly that purpose" but here you have it from a far better authority!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Janich View Post
    Dear Tom:

    The Delica is an outstanding knife that meets the needs of personal defense extremely well. I have been carrying two of them on a daily basis for about 10 years and train with them regularly (largely thanks to the fact that Spyderco makes a purpose-designed training version of the knife).

    I also typically use a Delica in my "pork man" cutting demonstrations in which I use a target constructed of a pork roast lashed around a wooden dowel (to represent bone) and covered with numerous layers of plastic wrap (to replicate skin). I cover this with a leg feom a pair of jeans and illustrate that a single cut from a well-designed, properly sharpened three-inch blade will cut the target "to the bone," representing disabling that limb. This is demonstrated in this video on YouTube (which I actually produced for local law enforcement and never intended for the YouTube audience):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PWmR...next=1&index=6

    As for information on using a Delica responsibly, I recommend my video "Martial Blade Concepts: The Enhanced Version," which is available exclusively from Stay Safe Media:

    http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=83

    It specifically addresses the use of small, legally -ermissible knives like the Delica as personal defense weapons, focusing on the idea of understanding their potential, understanding human anatomy, and using that knowledge to reliably stop an attacker.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael janich View Post
    dear tom:

    The delica is an outstanding knife that meets the needs of personal defense extremely well. I have been carrying two of them on a daily basis for about 10 years and train with them regularly (largely thanks to the fact that spyderco makes a purpose-designed training version of the knife).

    I also typically use a delica in my "pork man" cutting demonstrations in which i use a target constructed of a pork roast lashed around a wooden dowel (to represent bone) and covered with numerous layers of plastic wrap (to replicate skin). I cover this with a leg feom a pair of jeans and illustrate that a single cut from a well-designed, properly sharpened three-inch blade will cut the target "to the bone," representing disabling that limb. This is demonstrated in this video on youtube (which i actually produced for local law enforcement and never intended for the youtube audience):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pwmr...next=1&index=6

    as for information on using a delica responsibly, i recommend my video "martial blade concepts: The enhanced version," which is available exclusively from stay safe media:

    http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=83

    it specifically addresses the use of small, legally -ermissible knives like the delica as personal defense weapons, focusing on the idea of understanding their potential, understanding human anatomy, and using that knowledge to reliably stop an attacker.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    mike

    wow awesome

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SecSpyral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Janich View Post
    Dear Tom:

    The Delica is an outstanding knife that meets the needs of personal defense extremely well. I have been carrying two of them on a daily basis for about 10 years and train with them regularly (largely thanks to the fact that Spyderco makes a purpose-designed training version of the knife).

    I also typically use a Delica in my "pork man" cutting demonstrations in which I use a target constructed of a pork roast lashed around a wooden dowel (to represent bone) and covered with numerous layers of plastic wrap (to replicate skin). I cover this with a leg feom a pair of jeans and illustrate that a single cut from a well-designed, properly sharpened three-inch blade will cut the target "to the bone," representing disabling that limb. This is demonstrated in this video on YouTube (which I actually produced for local law enforcement and never intended for the YouTube audience):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PWmR...next=1&index=6

    As for information on using a Delica responsibly, I recommend my video "Martial Blade Concepts: The Enhanced Version," which is available exclusively from Stay Safe Media:

    http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=83

    It specifically addresses the use of small, legally -ermissible knives like the Delica as personal defense weapons, focusing on the idea of understanding their potential, understanding human anatomy, and using that knowledge to reliably stop an attacker.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike
    Wow Mike, thanks for the info

    - Scott C.
    "Enduras and Delicas are like potato chips--you can't have just one.
    However, unlike potato chips, they're GOOD for you!"
    - Mike J.

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User 224477's Avatar
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    I think MJ /Michael Janich/ covered that pretty well.

    I can say Delica will work, but once you know HOW TO, then almost every edged weapon will work just some will work better.

    Get proper training..
    "Having a dull knife is like having a stupid friend."

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ChapmanPreferred's Avatar
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    Looks like you have your answer AH2525 Thank you for the link to the videos Mike!
    SFO Alumni/Authorized Spyderco Dealer (Startup)
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  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User AH2525's Avatar
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    Mike,

    Thanks so much for the reply and links. It is a great resource having your expertise available on the forum.

  10. #10
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Hello Mike Janich,

    If you had to choose SE or PE for self defense which one would you choose ?

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User mark greenman's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    The new FFG PE in Grey or Purple would be my guess.

  12. #12
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Dr. Snubnose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIOT View Post
    Hello Mike Janich,

    If you had to choose SE or PE for self defense which one would you choose ?
    Ay Riot, Of course I'm not Michael so I'll let him answer for himself...but It has been my experience that the PE makes a better defensive tool, as the teeth on the serrated model tends to get caught up on clothing. Nothing wrong with a Delica for a SD option. I once saw x-rays of a guy who was stabbed in the head. You guessed it...he was stabbed with a PE Delica and FWIW it did to my amazement penetrate the skull....Doc
    "Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"

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  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Reeper22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Snubnose View Post
    Ay Riot, Of course I'm not Michael so I'll let him answer for himself...but It has been my experience that the PE makes a better defensive tool, as the teeth on the serrated model tends to get caught up on clothing. Nothing wrong with a Delica for a SD option. I once saw x-rays of a guy who was stabbed in the head. You guessed it...he was stabbed with a PE Delica and FWIW it did to my amazement penetrate the skull....Doc
    Can you give more details about the encounter? Did the guy die? Was it a self defense type thing? Etc.
    Keep you blades sharp and your wits sharper

  14. #14
    Spyderco Forum Registered User c.joe's Avatar
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    Michael, that was an amazing video. It makes me really want to start close hand combat training. I've been doing some BJJ for some time, but what your video showed seems a lot more useful and realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIOT View Post
    Hello Mike Janich,

    If you had to choose SE or PE for self defense which one would you choose ?
    Dear Riot:

    This question comes up a lot. To determine an answer, I did a bunch of live-blade testing on pork men with various types of "clothing" over them. I was particularly interested in the performance of different edge types against very loose clothing--particularly the crotch-to-the-knees gangbanger-style pants.

    What I found was that serrations tended to "grab" very loose clothing and move it over the target, dissipating the force of the cut and greatly reducing the ability of the edge to penetrate the clothing. Properly sharpened plain edges--especially those with superior edge profile (not too much belly) and superior edge geometry cut much cleaner and with much greater effect on the underlying target.

    I recently did an interesting pork man demo for a TV show called Don't Be a Victim that will be airing on SPIKE starting in July. It's basically "inspired" by The Best Defense and I will be demonstrating a variety of personal-defense skills as part of the "Practical Tactical" (I didn't choose that name) segment. To demonstrate the cutting power of a small knife, I built a 20-pound pork man that was literally the size of a large man's thigh. We taped it to a grappling dummy (basically a heavy bag with arms and legs) to support it and put the target into context. I then whacked it with a ballistic cut from a Rock Salt, producing pretty devastating cut about 7 inches long, which did not go all the way to the dowel/"bone." Popping a Delica, did the same thing, producing a slightly longer cut that DID go all the way to the dowel/"bone." In fact, when it popped out the other side, it actually cut the other leg on the leather dummy (Oops. Glad it wasn't my dummy.). Why? Because with the shorter blade, the cut becomes more of a pressure cut, since it's easier to transfer energy from the hand to the blade. Longer blades are longer levers, so it's harder to apply constant pressure all the way to the point. They therefore rely more on ballistic energy to cut efficiently.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike
    Michael Janich
    Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
    Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

  16. #16
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    thanks for the summary Mike,

    in the youtube video posted in the begining of this thread, were you using a plain edge or a combo edge ? my eyes kept seeing an a combo edge but im not sure

  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Dr. Snubnose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Janich View Post
    Dear Riot:

    This question comes up a lot. To determine an answer, I did a bunch of live-blade testing on pork men with various types of "clothing" over them. I was particularly interested in the performance of different edge types against very loose clothing--particularly the crotch-to-the-knees gangbanger-style pants.

    What I found was that serrations tended to "grab" very loose clothing and move it over the target, dissipating the force of the cut and greatly reducing the ability of the edge to penetrate the clothing. Properly sharpened plain edges--especially those with superior edge profile (not too much belly) and superior edge geometry cut much cleaner and with much greater effect on the underlying target.

    I recently did an interesting pork man demo for a TV show called Don't Be a Victim that will be airing on SPIKE starting in July. It's basically "inspired" by The Best Defense and I will be demonstrating a variety of personal-defense skills as part of the "Practical Tactical" (I didn't choose that name) segment. To demonstrate the cutting power of a small knife, I built a 20-pound pork man that was literally the size of a large man's thigh. We taped it to a grappling dummy (basically a heavy bag with arms and legs) to support it and put the target into context. I then whacked it with a ballistic cut from a Rock Salt, producing pretty devastating cut about 7 inches long, which did not go all the way to the dowel/"bone." Popping a Delica, did the same thing, producing a slightly longer cut that DID go all the way to the dowel/"bone." In fact, when it popped out the other side, it actually cut the other leg on the leather dummy (Oops. Glad it wasn't my dummy.). Why? Because with the shorter blade, the cut becomes more of a pressure cut, since it's easier to transfer energy from the hand to the blade. Longer blades are longer levers, so it's harder to apply constant pressure all the way to the point. They therefore rely more on ballistic energy to cut efficiently.
    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike
    Ok That makes sense, but wouldn't you agree that the Rock Salt was more of a chopping type weapon, and with Largomano movements (Largehand/Long Distance) slashes the Rock Salt might prove to more effective?...Also: Because I or anyone else for that matter other than you and those at the filming of this demo haven't seen this yet I would like to ask you at what point along the blade of the Rock Salt did it make contact with the target, was It just the front leading edge, middle portion or the complete blade...Thanks....Doc
    Last edited by Dr. Snubnose; 04-13-2010 at 01:23 AM.
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  18. #18
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JNewell's Avatar
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    Thank you very much - the real world test information is very useful.

    BTW, I also thought your MBC video was very well done - please feel free to promote your videos where you think we'd benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Janich View Post
    Dear Riot:

    This question comes up a lot. To determine an answer, I did a bunch of live-blade testing on pork men with various types of "clothing" over them. I was particularly interested in the performance of different edge types against very loose clothing--particularly the crotch-to-the-knees gangbanger-style pants.

    What I found was that serrations tended to "grab" very loose clothing and move it over the target, dissipating the force of the cut and greatly reducing the ability of the edge to penetrate the clothing. Properly sharpened plain edges--especially those with superior edge profile (not too much belly) and superior edge geometry cut much cleaner and with much greater effect on the underlying target.

    I recently did an interesting pork man demo for a TV show called Don't Be a Victim that will be airing on SPIKE starting in July. It's basically "inspired" by The Best Defense and I will be demonstrating a variety of personal-defense skills as part of the "Practical Tactical" (I didn't choose that name) segment. To demonstrate the cutting power of a small knife, I built a 20-pound pork man that was literally the size of a large man's thigh. We taped it to a grappling dummy (basically a heavy bag with arms and legs) to support it and put the target into context. I then whacked it with a ballistic cut from a Rock Salt, producing pretty devastating cut about 7 inches long, which did not go all the way to the dowel/"bone." Popping a Delica, did the same thing, producing a slightly longer cut that DID go all the way to the dowel/"bone." In fact, when it popped out the other side, it actually cut the other leg on the leather dummy (Oops. Glad it wasn't my dummy.). Why? Because with the shorter blade, the cut becomes more of a pressure cut, since it's easier to transfer energy from the hand to the blade. Longer blades are longer levers, so it's harder to apply constant pressure all the way to the point. They therefore rely more on ballistic energy to cut efficiently.

    I hope this helps.

    Stay safe,

    Mike

  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User brj's Avatar
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    the lack of a dedicated trainer for these folders may also be a drawback...
    Regardless of our native language, we all speak "knife" - Sal

  20. #20
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    Makes me feel even better about carrying my D4s.
    4x Delica 4's (standard, Wave w/ dark gray/blue handle, FFG Brown, FFG Blue), Police 3, Barong, Khukuri, CF Caly 3 ZDP, Sage II.

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