RIL Military (Knifeworks LE) or Standard Military

[BillyJack]

Ok guys. I have the LE RIL Military on pre-order at Knifeworks. I am trying to decide which Milli to go with. I do not mind the LL or the FL. Which one is going to be stronger? I understand the standard LL is very strong on the Milli, and is one of the strongest in the industry. I read Sal was saying it could withstand 500 lbs of force. That's pretty impressive. Does anyone know how much force the RIL version can withstand. Logically I would think the RIL would stronger because of the thickness difference.

What are some other pros and cons of each? I'm not too concerned about the different steels. I have expierence with both the CPM-M4 and CPM-S30V. IMO they are both good steels.

Brad

[yablanowitz]

Just so you will know, the cutout at the base of the lockbar on the TiRIL Military measures 0.048" thick. The liner/lockbar on the regular Military measures 0.048" thick. One is titanium, one is steel. Guess which is likely to be stronger.

The old 440V Millie with one partial liner was strong enough to stand up to anything someone with two active brain cells is likely to dish out. Any of the others will be as well. Choose by steel and handle preference.

[jzmtl]

That sounds awfully thin for a frame lock.

[gunmike1]

That sounds awfully thin for a frame lock.

That's the cutout. I've seen lots of "Hard Use" knives with RIL posted by STR to have cutouts as thin as .032" or so. I believe Sal said the RIL Millie was being engineered for the same strength as the liner lock Millie, so maybe the cutout being a similar size in a weaker material would make for a similar strength lock due the the rest of the lock bar being thicker and the possibly having to do with where the cutout is placed rather than just having the cutout thickness limiting strength to what an equivilant thickness liner lock would be. STR, or better yet Spyderco's lock breaking machine could probably answer that question. I do find it humorous though when I see so many people claim the RIL is by far the strongest lock on the market. The Chinnok lock back, Manix 2 Caged Ball Lock, the Superhawk and Para's comp lock, and the Axis lock should crush most any RIL for ultimate strength. The new Bradley M4 folder and it's .072" thick liner lock should beat out most RIL's as well, as that is one beefy hunk of stainless steel locking up that M4 blade.

Mike

[jzmtl]

Ah I get it now. Took me a while to connect cutout to where it is.

[demtek9]

I don't think the RIL is any stronger. Its just a safe feeling knowing your fingers actually put force towards the locked position when open. Same could be said for lockbacks with the Boyd dent.

[The Deacon]

Granted, the last time I was in a physics classroom was damn near 50 years ago, but it does seem a bar .048 thick for its entire several inches of length would be easier to flex than a bar of equal length several times that thickness for all but a very short section of that length.

That said, I'd most definitely agree with this...

The old 440V Millie with one partial liner was strong enough to stand up to anything someone with two active brain cells is likely to dish out. Any of the others will be as well. Choose by steel and handle preference.

[yablanowitz]

It is easier to flex. That doesn't make it easier to break.

[JNewell]

I would think that in ordinary use the strength of the stop in would be of more significance than the strength of the lock bar. Am I missing something?

[yablanowitz]

It depends on your definition of "ordinary use". For my ordinary use, the lock is pretty much superfluous. I use slipjoints all the time. For others, ordinary use seems to require a locking mechanism that is stronger than the blade. Why? No real clue, and the only reasons I can think of tend to be...let's just say "uncomplimentary" and leave it at that.

[Joshua J.]

Cutting thick cardboard your blade gets jammed in all the time. While wiggling it out you don't particularly care what angles pressure is being applied, you just want to finish cutting the cardboard.
This is one of the more common places where you'll see lock failure, I've heard of locks failing on something as simple as chopping twigs though.

[JNewell]

I treat every folder as if it were a slipjoint. I've seen so many things do unintended or unexpected things over the years that I try to make sure that when they happen I won't get cut.

[yablanowitz]

Cutting thick cardboard your blade gets jammed in all the time. While wiggling it out you don't particularly care what angles pressure is being applied, you just want to finish cutting the cardboard.
This is one of the more common places where you'll see lock failure, I've heard of locks failing on something as simple as chopping twigs though.

After you cut yourself enough times, you begin to care.