Endura zdp-189 vs vg-10

[Kyoo]

I've got two Endura 4's, one green with a zdp-189 blade, and one black with the vg-10. Using the sharpmaker, I just can't get the vg-10 as sharp as the zdp. The zdp, I can slice thin, clean pieces from the edge of a sheet of paper - the vg-10, while still sharper than most people's knives, cuts a ragged chunk out of the paper instead.

Does it require different technique?

[jzmtl]

1. Are you hitting the edge of the VG10? The factory edge angle is pretty obtuse.

2. Have you removed the burr from VG10?

[Crocodilo]

Getting a VG10 Endura to shave is quite attainable. Keep going st it, and/or revise your technique.

On the other hand, getting any saber grind Endura (regardless of steel type) to slice well is nearly impossible - unless you turn it into a flat grind.

Geometry trumps over steel everytime.

[FIMS]

I actually have a question about the ZDP-189 Endura.

I have a plain edge one, and the handles are a foliage green.

When I look at them online, all the ZDP Enduras and Delicas have this coloured handle.

Is this the only option, ZDP with Green handles?

[Kyoo]

1. Are you hitting the edge of the VG10? The factory edge angle is pretty obtuse.

I don't know. My process is the same for both knives - every 2 weeks or so, 50 strokes on the 40 degree , mid edge, mid flat, fine edge, fine flat. More often if I'm using them hard. Every 10 times or so, I'll use the 30 first, then follow with the 40.

Under a shop magnifier, the edge of the zdp (the actal bevel) looks a millimeter deeper on the zdp than on the vg-10. Is my "30" treatment not working on the vg-10?

2. Have you removed the burr from VG10?

I thought the sharpmaker made magically burr-less edges, when used properly. Do I need to add a stropping step?

[nathan310]

I strop all my knives it's definitely worth it! I would imagaine there would be some way through ingenuity to attach some leather to the sharp make to get the same angle. I use DMT stones so I don't know how you would do it with the sharpmaker.

[Kyoo]

I am starting to wonder if I need to graduate to using bench stones instead of the sharpmaker, if I want to learn how to really take care of my knives.

[jzmtl]

I don't know. My process is the same for both knives - every 2 weeks or so, 50 strokes on the 40 degree , mid edge, mid flat, fine edge, fine flat. More often if I'm using them hard. Every 10 times or so, I'll use the 30 first, then follow with the 40.

Under a shop magnifier, the edge of the zdp (the actal bevel) looks a millimeter deeper on the zdp than on the vg-10. Is my "30" treatment not working on the vg-10?



I thought the sharpmaker made magically burr-less edges, when used properly. Do I need to add a stropping step?

Most likely the 30 is not touching edge on either enduras, I have two and both came with very obtuse edge angle, but 40 should work. Paint the edge black with a sharpie then sharpen, then you can see where the metal is being removed.

You can still have burrs with sharpmaker, not as pronounced but you can see it if you look for the reflection under light, the hard ceramic tend to just push burr around instead of remove it in my experience. A strop loaded with polishing compound will improve the edge regardless so it couldn't hurt to try it.

[Kyoo]

Paint the edge black with a sharpie then sharpen, then you can see where the metal is being removed.

Thanks for this trick. On the 40 deg, a distinct black line remains right against the edge on the right-hand side of the knife. The ceramic isn't even touching the actual edge on that side.

Is that likely from my hand position, or is the blade ground assymetrically? How should I fix either case?

[jzmtl]

There you go, so you've been sharpening only one side all along. Either could be the cause thou. I find it helps to do it directly under a bright light (a desk lamp would do), this way it's easier to see if you are holding the knife vertical.

If you are thou then the only solution is to reprofile it. I think people have sent their knife back to spyderco and asked them to put on a more acute angle and they did it, but either call or email them to make sure. You could do it yourself with a diamond stone and sharpmaker as guide, but it takes a few times to get the hang of it so I don't recommend you go that route.

Try spyderco first thou, that would be the easiest.

[araneae]

With persistence you can use the 30 degree setting and brown rods to reset the bevel. It will take a while depending in how far off it is. Keep checking with the sharpie as you go.

[TooSharp]

I had the hardest time getting my Delica sharp. I finally got it super sharp by reprofiling it on my edge pro to about 25~30 degrees then took it back to the Sharpmaker and went through all the stages on the 40 degree setting. Finished it off on my strop. It is a slicer now!

[stanlyonjr]

I've got a few Caly 3 ZDP-189 blades as well as a Rockstead with a solid ZDP-189 blade. I have not changed the profile on either from the factory edge. I use a strop loaded with green compound to polish the edge. Talk about a beyond sharp edge. It takes some time to polish out the edge but its worth it. You end up wit a fine polished edge that all will be envious of to be certain. I have not tried this on VG-10 but I'm sure it will work as well for it as well. I've tried this on S30V, S90V, 154CM, M2, M4 and ATS-34 with excellent results. Although the harder steels respond better because of there toughness and hardness. This also enhances the edge holding ability of all steels IMO. So get a strop and a bar of green compound. You won't be disappointed.

Stan

[swanseajack]

Same results here too. Cr02 on a leather strop makes most steels really keen.
My zdp laminate caly jr hasn't needed actual honing yet.

[gunmike1]

I'll reprofile the knives to a more acute, mirrored bevel if you want. I used to, and still do on occassion use my Sharpmaker, but I've been using benchstones (DMT, Spyderco, and Shapton) to good effect. Another tip for removing burrs on the Sharpmaker is to get some 3M lapping film in 1 micron and .3 micron grits with a PSA backing and stick them to your Sharpmaker rods. You then do a "backwards" bottom to top of the rod stripping stroke, alternating every pass until all hints of the burr are gone. This will also polish your edge nicely.

Mike

edit to add: now that I think about it the angles I like putting on my knives would look a bit odd on a saber ground Endura, but I could shoot for a tad under 15 degrees instead of 10 degrees per side. The grinds on those knives are so thick that a sane angle on your backbevel makes for a really wide bevel. The only Enduras I have are Tom Krein regrinds to a full flat grind. They cut light years better than the factory grinds, look better, and sharpen up almost instantly because the bevel is tiny even at 10 degrees per side. Touch ups at 15 per side on completely dull ZDP only take 3-5 strokes per side per grit, so edge and overall blade geometry are hard to ignore. For instance my Caly 3 ZDP came with a factory edge only .012" thick (almost as thin as my Krein grind Endura is) with an angle of around 9 degrees per side, while my endura's factory edge was over twice as thick at about 16 degrees per side. The Caly touched up instantly on the 30 degree slots on the Sharpmaker, while my ZDP Endura had to get some tough loving from my DMT XX Coarse to bring it to 10 degrees per side. The bevel was very wide to the point of looking kind of funny, but on thick saber grinds that is the nature of the beast when you put on a decently thin backbevel for your 20 per side microbevels.