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Thread: trainer legality in Canada

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User stoneman's Avatar
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    trainer legality in Canada

    Hey folks,

    First of all, I know Spyderco's stance on balisongs and trainers. I fully understand and respect their position and I'm in no way trying to get around any laws. I'm trying to understand them. Can anyone tell me if a balisong trainer (from some other unnamed company) is legal in Canada? I've read the law but there's nothing concrete in there. No mention of training knives of any knid. I assume no sharp edge=not a knife. Am I wrong to assume this. If there are any canucks out there who can help me out It would be much appreciated. I'm trying to get my facts straight before I risk a customs confiscation.
    Thanks
    -Steph
    -"How many of those spyder thingies do you really need? "-my girlfriend-
    _ SERENITY NOW!!!!!- Frank Costanza

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    From what I understand, which may or may not be correct, Spyderco is allowed to sell automatics and balisongs to distributors and dealers outside the USA, subject only to the regulations imposed by the distributor's/dealer's country. Those sources can then, in turn, sell those items to anyone legally entitled to own them. So, assuming Balisong trainers are legal in Canada, and that you would be able to purchase one legally, Spyderco would, at least in theory, be able to sell them to Canadian dealers who, in turn, could legally sell one to you.

    As for your question, it is never safe to assume any law is logical, or will be interpreted and enfoced in a logical manner.
    Paul
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  3. #3
    Spyderco Forum Registered User stoneman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    So, assuming Balisong trainers are legal in Canada,
    That's the question I'm hoping someone can answer for me
    -Steph
    -"How many of those spyder thingies do you really need? "-my girlfriend-
    _ SERENITY NOW!!!!!- Frank Costanza

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I have ordered 4 BM trainers and each and everyone of these made it through customs. They were ordered from new graham and knifecenter. 2 went through customs and 2 didn't. The ones that went through custom were each opened and I was taxed on em. If you want them they are legal imo within Canada.

    Just label them as a Martial arts training tool and they will get in without to much of a hassle.

    take care
    aj
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  5. #5
    Spyderco Forum Registered User spyke's Avatar
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    bali-swan-song

    Perhaps if challenged the appeal might go like this...

    Excerpt from s.84 from the Criminal Code of Canada

    "prohibited weapon" means
    (a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife

    It is reasonable that the Balisong (knife) falls into this category (centrifugal) force.

    Knifeuse the Canadian OED but for discussion purposes I'm including some web definitons):
    • edge tool used as a cutting instrument; has a pointed blade with a sharp edge and a handle
    • a weapon with a handle and blade with a sharp point


    The denied entry into Canada (or basis for an appeal) would hinge on whether the trainer was considered a "knife" by the reviewing officer.

    btw - manufactures can sell* these knives to Canadian dealers licenced by the provincial CFO but those dealers can only sell to elligable agencies (*insofar as export conditions are met).

  6. #6
    Spyderco Forum Registered User stoneman's Avatar
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    just thought I'd let everyone know I did get my trainer. Yes they are legal and no it didn't require any special labelling. It was marked " balisong trainer" and went through all the normal, legal channels without a hitch. thanks again to all for the input
    -Steph
    -"How many of those spyder thingies do you really need? "-my girlfriend-
    _ SERENITY NOW!!!!!- Frank Costanza

  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Dude, a trainer is not a knife because it doesn't have a blade

  8. #8
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamaljj View Post
    Dude, a trainer is not a knife because it doesn't have a blade
    Not true, a balisong trainer most definitely has a blade, it just has a very dull one. Problem is, since even very dull blades CAN be sharpened, at least some places that outlaw or restrict balisongs do not differentiate between live blade knives and trainers. On a totally different note, I curious as to your reason for attaching a 1 X 1 pixel white image to your post. Only noticed its existence because the vBulletin code for it showed up when I quoted your post. Care to enlighten us?
    Paul
    My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
    Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
    WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Half Sack's Avatar
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    While I agree with basically everything posted here, I would like to offer an opinion.

    I have asked customs officers and been told 'should be legal, depends on who gets the package'

    That said a trainer is not a knife as it has no edge, the law doesn't read 'has an edge or ability to be given one' I know that isn't going to get anything through customs but its true. In Canada we have many things that may be perfectly legal UNTIL either A) something illegal has been done with it or B) it has been modified to fall into illegal (prohibited usually)

    I'd be happy enough to get a trainer and would never sharpen it. Why? Because then the trainer is now not only a knife but a prohibited item, the knife would not just be confiscated, I would be charged, face fines/possible jail time and likely a record for the rest of my life. An arguable legal trainer is worth the risk (usually just confiscated with no fine), something I KNOW is illegal isn't even close to reasonable.

    That said I may place a trainer order someday.

    Edit: I was not trying to be disrespectful of anyone here or the laws but just stating my thoughts and reasons as to why it should be not just legal, but acceptable.
    If my house was ever inspected my first words would be 'its not a knife' bc I truly believe that it is not.
    Last edited by Half Sack; 02-11-2013 at 10:58 AM.

  10. #10
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    I'll try to post some pictures of Blue, but I may be flipping a while!

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