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Thread: Reflections on Restricted Items

  1. #21
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ClockWork's Avatar
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    I dont think theres a cop out there that will hassle you because of a tiny little knife if you flash a NREMT card. Be it B I or P...

    ... EMS personnel "Help" people, not stab them. And cops know that EMS people can get shot, stabbed, kick, HIV-ed, and baseball batted just as much as they can....

    Heck... Even if we were to stab someone. The next thing we'd do is probly a damn Initial assessment, then elevate and pressure.



    And dont forget the most important statement of all...

    *Edited - TazKristi - Inappropriate for our Forum.

    -Clock

  2. #22
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Agent Starling's Avatar
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    a few thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by aj1985 View Post
    Secondly why even have this section on the forum, because It really isn't needed imo. Many of us aren't allowed to own the automatics or balisongs and those that can are Law Enforcement and Military and I doubt many of them will be discussing thiese knives over here.

    Just remove the section all together, because It clearly would not be beneficial.
    I've been wondering the same thing also. In fact, I've been thinking, why have this section at all, if only a small subset of this forum can own these knives? Or, in the alternative, why not make this forum a closed forum, where only that certain subset of people who can legally own these knives can participate...that way the rest of us don't have to look at and read about knives which we will never be able to possess...? Just a thought.

    Agent Starling
    "Too many was too many, but way too many was just right."

  3. #23
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ClockWork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Starling View Post
    I've been wondering the same thing also. In fact, I've been thinking, why have this section at all, if only a small subset of this forum can own these knives? Or, in the alternative, why not make this forum a closed forum, where only that certain subset of people who can legally own these knives can participate...that way the rest of us don't have to look at and read about knives which we will never be able to possess...? Just a thought.

    Agent Starling

    Now thats America!!!!!


    mmm.... oh wonderful innerweb censorship!! Love it!!!

    And nobody forget my wonderful buddy the Patriot act. (If there telling us that there doin that stuff.... Think about what there NOT telling us that there doing!!?)(You have to wonder? Who's reading these post?)
    Last edited by ClockWork; 05-07-2008 at 11:01 PM.

  4. #24
    Spyderco Forum Registered User VGM'S KNIVES's Avatar
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    Automatic Knife laws.

    I have been collecting knives for around ten years. My first knife was givin to me on my 9th birthday. I have had some type of knife on me ever sense. I really think its time for all of us knife lovers to speak up about the way the laws are. The Government always wants more control over the people as bridges are falling down all around us. The tactical knife is becoming more and more popular to the collectors along with switchblades. I live in minnesota where you can own any lengh knife or swithblade, but to carry is a crime. I dont spend 950.00 on a William Henry to use as a EDC. I have read storys that New York is arresting people for the assisted opening knives? If we dont all stick together and voice our opinions, who knows what the Government will take away from us next.Thanks for the great info and post.

  5. #25
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    I think that civil, intelligent discussion is a good thing. Socrates is one of my mentors. Dialectic discussion often uncovers greater meaning and understanding.

    It's a public forum on knife items that are "restricted". Where they are restricted? How, why, are all very difficult questions to get intelligent, meaningful response to.

    Speaking out , protesting, or bitching is not as meaningful as exploring, questioning, sharing and understanding.

    sal

  6. #26
    Spyderco Forum Registered User JBE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    I dont think theres a cop out there that will hassle you because of a tiny little knife if you flash a NREMT card. Be it B I or P...

    ... EMS personnel "Help" people, not stab them. And cops know that EMS people can get shot, stabbed, kick, HIV-ed, and baseball batted just as much as they can....

    Heck... Even if we were to stab someone. The next thing we'd do is probly a damn Initial assessment, then elevate and pressure. -Clock
    I agree 100% and there's not an LEO around here that would "hassle" me for having it. However, if I ever have to use that knife in a life-or-death situation to protect myself, I want to make sure it's legal for me to own that knife before I put in my pocket. I don't want that dark cloud hanging over me in court. It's a shame because the Embassy would be an incredible tool to have in my line of work.

    I'm just glad I live in a state where there's no restriction on folder length...hence, I carry a Military.
    Jason

  7. #27
    Spyderco Forum Registered User KaliGman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    ...
    And dont forget the most important statement of all...

    * Edited- TazKristi - Inappropriate for our Forum.

    -Clock
    The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) had nothing whatsoever to do with charges against Spyderco. Does Spyderco trade in tobacco, firearms, alcohol or explosives? The applicable agency was Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which had jurisdiction due to imported parts used to make balisongs and the sale of these knives in interstate commerce.

    As for reform of laws and rules, I am all for it. There are some things that need changing. As a firearms owner and aficionado, there are many rules and laws regarding ownership of firearms that I would like to see changed. As for federal law enforcement officers puposely losing reports, lying, or falsifying evidence, I have never seen it and if I had, the officers would be doing time. I am sure there are bad apples in every law enforcement agency, just as there are in every other career, including EMTs. When you use such a broad brush and paint an entire agency as corrupt, you insult the sacrifices, hard work, and integrity of many good people who are working in that agency and there is also "spillage" over to the reputation of all federal agents and law enforcement in general. I've known too many people who went into law enforcement to help people, who have fought and bled doing that, and who were fine upstanding human beings to let that pass without comment. You need to ratchet it down a couple of notches.
    "There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

    "The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper

  8. #28
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ClockWork's Avatar
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    I'm sure there are good people in the ATF. But the ATF isnt one person or just the 10,000+ good officers in the ATF. Its a organization. And the Organization is corrupt.
    Sometimes generalization is the best way to describe it.

  9. #29
    Administrator TazKristi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    I'm sure there are good people in the ATF. But the ATF isnt one person or just the 10,000+ good officers in the ATF. Its a organization. And the Organization is corrupt.
    Sometimes generalization is the best way to describe it.
    Perhaps this post from Sal needs to be highlighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    I think that civil, intelligent discussion is a good thing. Socrates is one of my mentors. Dialectic discussion often uncovers greater meaning and understanding.

    It's a public forum on knife items that are "restricted". Where they are restricted? How, why, are all very difficult questions to get intelligent, meaningful response to.

    Speaking out , protesting, or bitching is not as meaningful as exploring, questioning, sharing and understanding.

    sal
    There is nothing more important than this one day.

  10. #30
    Spyderco Forum Registered User smcfalls13's Avatar
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    I'm likely the last person you guys would expect to say this, but restricting balisongs/automatics may end up being better in the long run, at least for me

    It'll force me to make my own Balisongs

    Just gotta look on the bright side of everything

    Less money spent on balis means more money to make my own.
    Scott

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
    -Sir Winston Churchill-

  11. #31
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    Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.

  12. #32
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Jakemug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appler View Post
    Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.
    Not everyone.


    We regular law-abiding-citizen-folk with no criminal record sometimes don't understand fancy federal law and it needs to be explained to us so we don't go out and do something crazy like try to add an auto or bali to our collection of knives that we've been building since we were 7 years old and end up in federal prison.

    I'm glad I CAN'T own any of these highly specialized knives in question. Gosh, I wouldn't know what to do with one if it were given to me! All that weird flippin' and button pushin!

    I am enjoying this new forum though and reading about all the fantasy knives out there that most of us can't even sniff without the feds swooping in.

  13. #33
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    Yeah, I know. I'm not properly trained and couldn't possibly control all of the extra slaughter-potential that spring loading and gravity/inertia deployment affords. Oh, wait...there ISN'T anymore firepower and no one else is properly trained, either (because there is, of course, nothing to train). I forgot.

    So, unlike in the more obvious cases of, say, rocket propelled grenades, anything less than blanket illegality in this instance smells suspiciously like a reward.

  14. #34
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Stevie Ray's Avatar
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    Good comments above. Personally, the restrictions on balisongs have puzzled me in the base case. It takes lots of practice and some level of coordination to open a balisong with speed. I've never understood why they get categorized with automatic knives in some states.
    Steve

  15. #35
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Ian UK's Avatar
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    They used to be legal over here in the UK I remember being able to buy them but cant remember when and why they were banned.

    Some "5h1*" will of done something wrong which we are all paying for now!

    Once again I cant see how a bali or auto is anymore dangerous its the user thats the problem, especially over here in the city's where the gangs at present are just stabbing one another!

    Personally I think let them get on with it, but we are surrounded by do-gooders and soft politicians that give in to every sob story.

    Bali's are gone, Samurai swords were banned last month, air guns now need to be bought in person and all the shops are miles away, where it will end I dont know, the yobs now cary screwdrivers so if caught just say they have been doing a bit of D.I.Y. for their gran or something.

    Its us serious collectors that suffer!
    IAN UK Collector #116.

  16. #36
    Spyderco Forum Registered User ClockWork's Avatar
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    .02 dollars more

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie Ray View Post
    Good comments above. Personally, the restrictions on balisongs have puzzled me in the base case. It takes lots of practice and some level of coordination to open a balisong with speed. I've never understood why they get categorized with automatic knives in some states.
    Yeah ive never understood that either. I've toyed with Balis for years now, and I am no were near the level that some of the kids on YouTube are.
    And even then, I think those guys would take longer to retrieve there bali from there pocket and open, than any of us with a Spyderco.

    And yes, I've seen that huge fat kid do his Bali opening speed comparisons video. But I think thats kinda a Load of BS, because any movement or any little thing throws off a Bali opening.

    Balis are just not that convenient or useful. I see them much more of a Toy than an actual useful knife.

    Also: I wouldn't necessarily say that a Auto is "Faster" than a Manuel. Yes, in all literal sense it is faster opening. IDK about you, But it takes about the same time to pull and open a Auto, then to Pull and open a manual. I will say that with my BM 5000s, and Boker AK74 that I feel the opening is more "reliable" and theres less of a chance of me dicking it up... Does that make sence? However the MT UT6 is (I feel) easier to mess up the opening... or if my hands are sweaty or tired or something its hard to push the trigger right.

    So... take that as you want,

    Bottom Line; You can stab some one with a Manuel or Auto just the same. Heck, you can stab someone with a screwdriver.
    Restricting one isnt going to make the people that are stabbing people; Stop stabbing people.


    IDK about you, But I have never stabbed anyone, Nor do I wish too...

    -Clock
    Last edited by ClockWork; 05-24-2008 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Clock no spell good on cemputer
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  17. #37
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appler View Post
    Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.
    Or we're just realistic enough to know that, even if it were just as illegal for them as it is for us, it would make no difference. If there's any place in this country, or on this earth for that matter, where "the boys and girls blue" routinely enforce nuisance ordinances against their brethren, I've yet to hear of it.

    I severely doubt any here would think worse of someone who privately engages in civil disobedience where these particular laws are concerned. I know I would not. But, at the same time, I can understand Spyderco's decision to make these knives and have respect for their concern that members openly bragging about such actions, giving "how to evade the law" advice to others, or asking for such advice, on "company property" might have unfavorable repercussions for both the "protester" and for the company.
    Paul
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  18. #38
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Jakemug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    But, at the same time, I can understand Spyderco's decision to make these knives and have respect for their concern that members openly bragging about such actions, giving "how to evade the law" advice to others, or asking for such advice, on "company property" might have unfavorable repercussions for both the "protester" and for the company.
    Agreed Deac, Spyderco's just followin' the rules/laws that exist. Probably not the place for us common folk to discuss how ridiculous they may be. I'll just stay away from this new forum, since I can't "legally" own or contribute about any of the products in it. Much the same way I simply don't watch a television station or listen to radio I don't care for instead of bitching about it.

    To those whom the gov't has deemed worthy of purchasing and carrying the products in question, enjoy the new section! Farewell!

  19. #39
    Spyderco Forum Registered User disorder's Avatar
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    hi all, back after another year.. and i found this mess..
    well , i'm really sorry for Spyderco -'cause its integrity and ethical honesty is not to be discussed anyhow..-
    what i would like to understand is ,since in italy is completely legal to buy and to hold at home ANY kind of knife, BUT you're not allowed to have it on you -without a REAL reason, i.e. camping, hunting etc- even a blade of half an inch..
    i can buy from Spyderco a szabofly ? i normally receive any kind of blade (cc #141) wthout problem.. but after this thing ?
    kali do you know where i could find more infos on the international side of this ?
    thanks and my best regards to everyone.
    Gian
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  20. #40
    Spyderco Forum Registered User KaliGman's Avatar
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    Szabofly

    Quote Originally Posted by disorder View Post
    hi all, back after another year.. and i found this mess..
    well , i'm really sorry for Spyderco -'cause its integrity and ethical honesty is not to be discussed anyhow..-
    what i would like to understand is ,since in italy is completely legal to buy and to hold at home ANY kind of knife, BUT you're not allowed to have it on you -without a REAL reason, i.e. camping, hunting etc- even a blade of half an inch..
    i can buy from Spyderco a szabofly ? i normally receive any kind of blade (cc #141) wthout problem.. but after this thing ?
    kali do you know where i could find more infos on the international side of this ?
    thanks and my best regards to everyone.
    Gian

    Ciao Gian,

    I am unsure of the regulations in regard to Italy. I can tell you that, in general, there is no U.S. law of which I am aware that would prevent the export of Szabofly knives from the U.S. to Europe. The Szabofly will not be part of the Collector's Club, due to the problems in regard to selling these knives within the United States. If it is legal for you to purchase the knife in Italy, which I believe is the case, then, as a resident of Italy you should be able to purchase the knife without more than the usual hassle of buying something from outside Italy. Based on my knowledge of the issues, selling to you should not be a problem for Spyderco Dealers or Distributors. I hope this helps. I wish I could be more specific, but I am not a lawyer with a specialty in International trade or U.S. Customs law. I'm just a guy who works in U.S. federal law enforcement and who tries to navigate the often troubled waters of the judicial process in order to make sure that bad guys go to prison and good guys are protected. WIth today's rules, regulations, politics, etc,. that is quite enough of a challenge for me
    "There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

    "The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper

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