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Thread: Reflections on Restricted Items

  1. #41
    Spyderco Forum Registered User disorder's Avatar
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    Hi Kali, thanks a lot for your kind answer.
    i asked to my dealer -the one that sell me my cc spydies- and he said taht due to the past probs, he had to send back all the Spyderco balis, and he cant sell any of them -- that's ridicolous ,'cause all benchmade balis are still there.. i know it's 'cause the law change from state to state..
    will try to find one in eu.
    thanks again for your answer, my best regards
    gian
    cc #141
    http://www.gnm.it - graphic design

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appler View Post
    Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.
    +1000 You sure said it!

    Quick question for KaliGman; are you an attorney or a LEO or both?

    Thanks in advance...

  3. #43
    Administrator TazKristi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-2 View Post
    +1000 You sure said it!

    Quick question for KaliGman; are you an attorney or a LEO or both?

    Thanks in advance...
    G-2,
    KaliGman is a Federal LEO with a very extensive background in LE at various levels. He and I work closely together.

    Kristi
    There is nothing more important than this one day.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TazKristi View Post
    G-2,
    KaliGman is a Federal LEO with a very extensive background in LE at various levels. He and I work closely together.

    Kristi
    Hi Kristi,

    We found our answer; KaliGman is not an attorney. We were just currious.

    Thanks to you both for your service!

  5. #45
    Spyderco Forum Registered User
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    all this legal mumbo jumbo has put a kill to this section in the last couple of days

  6. #46
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    Thumbs down We're from the Govt, we're here to help (just like in New Orleans)

    Quote Originally Posted by RIOT View Post
    all this legal mumbo jumbo has put a kill to this section in the last couple of days
    ...and if that hasn't, this should:

    Quoted from Restricted Forum Rules Page:
    "This separate discussion forum for Restricted Models will make monitoring by Spyderco, Inc and any interested Law Enforcement/Government Agencies easier."

    Good to know that big brother has the accommodated option of keeping an eye on you (after all, you need to be watched), in this day and age of warrant-less illegal wire-taps, monitored email, rendition, & US-sanctioned torture. If Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and/or Benjamin Franklin were around today, they would be... well, anybody that's ever studied US history knows what they would be...

  7. #47
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-2 View Post
    ...and if that hasn't, this should:

    Quoted from Restricted Forum Rules Page:
    "This separate discussion forum for Restricted Models will make monitoring by Spyderco, Inc and any interested Law Enforcement/Government Agencies easier."

    Good to know that big brother has the accommodated option of keeping an eye on you (after all, you need to be watched), in this day and age of warrant-less illegal wire-taps, monitored email, rendition, & US-sanctioned torture. If Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and/or Benjamin Franklin were around today, they would be... well, anybody that's ever studied US history knows what they would be...
    Or it's just a more polite way of saying "Hey assholes, if you're stupid or naive enough to think that after the screwing Spyderco already took at their hands, that ICE is NOT monitoring these forums and would NOT take an interest in you bragging about illegally acquiring a Spyderco automatic or balisong, THINK AGAIN".
    Paul
    My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
    Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
    WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

  8. #48
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    Unhappy Sorry if we offended you Paul...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    Or it's just a more polite way of saying "Hey assholes, if you're stupid or naive enough to think that after the screwing Spyderco already took at their hands, that ICE is NOT monitoring these forums and would NOT take an interest in you bragging about illegally acquiring a Spyderco automatic or balisong, THINK AGAIN".
    Hi Paul, so you're a fan of the 'big brother' thing and think it's appropriate to illegally wire tap folks, to 'snoop' all their emails, to have the govt performing rendition & torture (you may want consult our CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS so that you have your information correct).

    We're not exactly sure of the point you're making, but we think the Mods will agree there is no reason to call anyone an ASSHOLE, STUPID, NAIVE or a FELON (surely you can express yourself better than that, we're guessing you're not an attorney based on your eloquent manner of interacting with us), however we've acquired nothing illegal. Unlike you who live in the Peoples Republic of New York, we reside in the FREE south. We have no cast system (you know how only LEO's and Felon's carry weapons in your area, oh and of course NY is well known for giving permits to VIP's which really re-enforces the cast system analogy). Here in the south we have what is called A LEGAL RIGHT TO PROTECT OURSELVES, and civilians are provided the right to carry weapons LEGALLY to protect themselves. We here in the south, don't have to wait to be a victim and then hope a LEO responds in a timely manner, nor do we have a cast type system which separates classes by rights (like you do where you live). Here in the south, folks are actually licensed to carry concealed weapons and allowed to defend themselves. You'll also notice the difference in crime statistics from New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore, & DC vs area's South Carolina and further South. As far as automatic knives go, you've obviously not aware of and have never been to BLADE which just took place in NY City, or any gun & knife show in the south.

    To recap for you Paul, we're very sorry you feel that it's appropriate to call anyone an ASSHOLE, STUPID, NAIVE or a FELON here, and we're sorry if we offended you; reality can be difficult to deal with especially if one sees themselves as better than others. If we offended your sensibility perhaps you should check your ego at the login. The senate, & house of representatives reports on civil rights violations speak for themselves.

    Have a nice day, and we hope you feel better soon.
    Last edited by G-2; 06-08-2008 at 02:28 PM.

  9. #49
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Agent Starling's Avatar
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    Is this another Tomahawk incarnation or what?
    "Too many was too many, but way too many was just right."

  10. #50
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    G-2, it's painfully obvious from your comments that you did not read very much of this thread. If you had, you'd realize two things.

    First, that while you may not have violated the laws of your state, unless your an LEO or active duty Military, you have violated Federal law by purchasing the Embassy you're bragging about over on BladeForums and are apparently upset because you cannot similarly brag about here. Kristi has explained the how and why of that and KaliGman has explained the how and why of that in even greater detail. If you choose to disbelieve, you do so at your own risk.

    As for me, your wrong again, and would know it if you had read my earlier posts. I don't like that law any more than I like the ones which make pot illegal. I just would not see the advantage to go bragging about scoring some grass or an automatic knife in a place where the chances of the wrong people reading about it if I were doing either.

    You are wrong yet again about it not affecting me. While automatics are illegal in New York, balisongs are not. Frankly I don't know which pisses me off worse, NOT being able to legally buy a SmallFly or being able to legally buy a Benchmade balisong.

    Personally I think Sal, and by extension Spyderco, showed enormous courage and perserverance by making the decision to produce Balisongs and Automatics in spite of the drubbing they'd taken at the hands of the Feds over the Spyderflys. So when people waltz in here and start putting them down for toeing the lines they are forced to toe instead of seeing that, I get a tad upset.

    As for the comparison of state laws, have no clue where you live, but to the best of my knowlege, most Southern states outlaw the carrying of Bowie knives while New York allows me to carry one. As for your contention on crime rates, this seems to say you're wrong yet again. http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?cit...city2=54513330

    Also, I just returned from Blade, it was in Atlanta GA, not New York. I've also been to several knife shows a lots of gun shows in New York - both the city and the state. If your point is that many vendors at these shows sell knives which violate New York State law, I'm already aware of that. But none of that allows Spyderco the luxury of thumbing their nose at the Feds.

    For the record, I did not call you any names. To the best of my knowledge the forum rules I was paraphrasing were written before you joined and not aimed at you specifically. On the other hand, if the shoe fits, feel free to wear it.
    Paul
    My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
    Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
    WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

  11. #51
    Spyderco Forum Registered User KaliGman's Avatar
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    I find it very interesting that the members here, such as the Deacon, who are trying to keep people from incriminating themselves and possibly initiating another investigation into the sale of autos and balisongs by Spyderco, are being labeled as "minions of the evil Guvmint."

    This entire thread was started, by me, in order to inform those who use this forum what the federal law was requiring Spyderco to do, to explain that there could be very serious consequences to crowing about violating the federal law, and that some of these consequences could be detrimental to both Spyderco and individual forum members who were in violation of the law. Also, people need to keep in mind that I am not the only Federal LEO who is a member of this forum, and that, unlike many forums, this forum can be viewed by anyone who is not a member. Information here is open to the public, including law enforcement. A subpoena, a 2703 preservation order, and/or other legal process could be issued based on information seen on this forum. These legal documents (not "illegal wiretaps") would then require Spyderco to give up any information (such as an individual's email address, IP address, etc.) that LEOs needed for their investigation. Anyone silly enough to have broken the law and bought a Spyderco balisong and/or automatic and then begin to talk about it in this forum is about as bright as the guy in a red Ferrari who sees a marked police cruiser with a radar unit mounted on the vehicle and doing the speed limit, and who passes the police vehicle at a high rate of speed anyway. Some things just are not going to be ignored by law enforcement.

    Deacon has several thousand posts and is well known here. The vast majority here know that he doesn't agree with the law on balisongs and automatic knives. Most of the people here know, by now, that I don't believe in knife and gun control laws either. I did, however, swear an oath as a law enforcement officer to uphold the law of the United States. Also, I really don't want to debate the federal statutes and the Constitution, as interpreted by the United States Supreme Court. I have a pretty good grasp on what is rather than what people want the law of this land to be. It really isn't worth the trouble of putting on a tin-foil hat to keep the rays from the "Guvmint" black helicopters from penetrating and try to see things from some of the other viewpoints expressed here.

    One thing that I would like to see is for people to join a few organizations that are designed to safeguard certain rights of self defense and/or work for change of many federal laws in other ways. Change the law and every responsible adult (or teenager or however the law would be worded) can own an automatic knife. To be honest, I would not be one of the people buying. I own exactly two autos--both collectibles. i can deploy a Spyderco or Emerson folder faster than an auto. Balisongs have certain advantages in combative and in tool usage, but autos have very few uses outside of the "cool factor." I have bought exactly two of the Spyderco restricted items: a live blade and a trainer version of the Smallfly. The trainer is going to see a lot of use in the kali classes I teach.
    "There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

    "The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper

  12. #52
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    *Edited - Inappropriate - TazKristi

  13. #53
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    I wonder if perhaps they could be made available without the springs in them like Boker did with a number of their autos for an unrestricted market?

  14. #54
    Spyderco Forum Registered User defenestrate's Avatar
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    monkey, given the scrutiny of the ICE at this time, my guess would be that simply removing springs would not do. They would have to make it difficult to insert such a spring in a purpose-built way-if it would take someone capable of, say, cutting and hammering and quenching/etc a blade to remove a steel nub, for example, then I think it would work. Knife laws in the United States, even in the (still fairly free) south have so many twists and turns that it is easier to break them than it is to get the job done in many cases and this makes me sad. On the other hand, learn to handmake knives and get to know local LEO and you might be singing a different tune.

  15. #55
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Cuttingedge's Avatar
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  16. #56
    Spyderco Forum Registered User brandonreed2008's Avatar
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    i could have sworn that you can buy one but you cant carry it in public. i seriously doubt police would raid your house for a balisong is this just another one of those "if we make a law taking these items away then less people will be hurt?" i hate those. i actually got stopped a couple days ago walking at night (i look young) edcing my bali (not spyderco) the cop just said he has no idea why it would be illegal and he let me and my bali on my way. i can definitely open a folder faster than a balisong and my endura wave faster than an auto. strange. we need some less ignorant people in charge
    War is mostly waiting.

  17. #57
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    like everything else....

    legalize it.

  18. #58
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Milu's Avatar
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    I can legally own and carry an auto, a balisong, a pistol. However, the question I would pose is:

    should stupid laws be respected?

    In today's world it is much easier to pass a stupid law than to repeal it. And who is qualified to judge which laws deserve to be respected (except me of course)?
    My father always taught me not to trust a man who was not interested in cars, guns and knives.

  19. #59
    Spyderco Forum Registered User KaliGman's Avatar
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    Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Milu View Post
    I can legally own and carry an auto, a balisong, a pistol. However, the question I would pose is:

    should stupid laws be respected?

    In today's world it is much easier to pass a stupid law than to repeal it. And who is qualified to judge which laws deserve to be respected (except me of course)?
    Respected, maybe not, but if you mean obeyed, there are a number of reasons. Some of these reasons:

    Individuals avoid being arrested and prosecuted.

    Companies that make knives avoid seizures and paying court imposed fines.

    Individuals avoid possible interaction with armed law enforcement professionals and possible use of force by those professionals if the law enforcement officers feel that the individual is reaching for an illegal weapon.

    And both police officers and judges will be happy to explain to you, as you are processed through the justice system, that they are quite qualified to tell you how you disobeyed the law and can even recite the penalties you will face. The judge will even feel qualified to deprive you of your liberty for a few days, months, or maybe years, depending upon which law you have decided is "stupid" and which should not apply to you.

    As you are in a foreign nation, your laws are different than those imposed in the United States. I would suggest, though, that treating the laws of your nation in a cavalier fashion might not be the smartest move in the world if you wish to continue to enjoy your liberty.
    "There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

    "The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper

  20. #60
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Milu's Avatar
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    As you rightly say, judges and policeman are quite happy to explain it But my question was meant in a more general way not specifically weapons. For example pogroms in nazi Germany - where do we draw the line on wrong laws, at what point do we react, when do we stop being frightened of beng punished for breaking a law that is wrong? And I stress again it is much easier to pass a law than to repeal it.
    My father always taught me not to trust a man who was not interested in cars, guns and knives.

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