Spyderco Diamond Rod Durability

[John G.]

How durable are the Diamond rods for the Sypderco 204 sharpener ? If you're not careful & press medium-hard (like new sharpeners trying to sharpen faster) do the diamonds wear out quickly ? Are the rods durable enough for a group of "not too careful" Boyscouts to use at a summer camp to sharpen their super-dull blades without wearing the rods out within a few weeks ?

Thanks.

[thombrogan]

The diamonds have an extra layer of dust over them, so they'll seem to wear out very quickly, but.... ....they'll actually reach a point where they're delivering a 400 grit finish (instead of a coarser one) as fast as any high-quality 400 grit diamond hone can do. So it'll seem they'll die after 10 knives or so, but they'll still be cutting at an above-average speed for the next 2000+ sharpenings. That's even if you put them in the base on the bottom of the sharpener so you can use them with loads more pressure.

[WORKER#9]

Might aren't as gritty as the day they were new but they have held up very well and seem to cut through steel very quickly after a lot of knives. I mean a lot!

[messer454]

I have been wondering about this guys and was going to start a thread and then saw this one. I used to have a diamond flat stone from ez lap I think and it got "loaded" with metal and would not cut much anymore. I also had a DMT rat tail sharpener that seemed to do the same thing. I have used the DMT ones with the dot spaces in between ever since to prevent the diamond from getting clogged. I take it the Spyderco doesn't get clogged with metal? Is there any way to clean the metal off/ out of them? Surely they get clogged after awhile don't they?

I love my sharpmaker but have to start on a bench stone if it needs profiling. 2000 sharps though seems like it would be worth the investment if you could clean the metal out.

[sal]

Hi John,

Diamonds don't wear out! They are among the most abrasive resistant materials on the planet.

What happens is; first they "cap". This means that the very fine edges will chip due to excessive pressure or impact. This is the first 10 knives or so mentioned above.

Then what happens is the diamond is dislodged from the matrix holding it to the steel platform. The diamond is dislodged from the matrix by the user pressing too hard or "striking" the diamond. the diamond is pushed into the steel under it, which creates a cavity surrounding the diamond, permiting the diamond to move....back and forth....until it cuts its way out of the matrix.

The diamond requires almost no pressure to cut steel. drag a diamond hone very lightly across the blade of your most cherished collector pieces I guarantee it will scratch the blade.

I continually hear about people that say their diamonds wore out. Not so. They wore them out by pressing too hard. Even the ones that say they are not pressing too hard, just don't know how lightly to use diamonds if you want them to last.

Diamonds are great, they'll cut the hardest steel. Pressing harder doesn't make them cut faster, it only dislodges the diamonds from the matrix. If you treat a diamond abrasive like a whetstone, you are pressing too hard.

I personally like to lube with a little water which I beleive reduces the cut but saves the diamond.

That is my opinion based on a background including: experience in Mil spec plating. 55 years of knife nut passion, manufacturing diamond hones, sharpening experience with just about all abrasives.

I would not let the scouts use diamond hones without prior successful sharpening experience. I would bring a very coarse cheap 2x8 or 3x8 sharpening stone and honing oil and give them a real lesson.

sal

[messer454]

Sal-

Based on your response I know that I have put way too much force in any diamond I have used. Doing it your way does the diamond ever seem to get "loaded" with metal? Can you clean them or do they ever need cleaned? I seem to rember DMT marketing that they put those dot spaces between the diamond to keep the diamonds from getting clogged. I really value your imput, thanks.

[gunmike1]

Before I got my DMt X coarse and XX coarse I used my Diamond rods for a lot of reprofiles, including a Jess Horn ZDP flat to the stone. After the initial break in period they still cut the same, with no loss of bite after reprofiling lots of high carbide steels. They are a quality product that will last a long time, but won't cut as fast as the coarser DMT benchstones. They arew great for the Sharpmaker system, though, and for reprofiling knives to 30 degrees included they cut plenty fast, and actually can put a real nice slicing edge on a knife.

Mike

[WORKER#9]

Sal-

Based on your response I know that I have put way too much force in any diamond I have used. Doing it your way does the diamond ever seem to get "loaded" with metal? Can you clean them or do they ever need cleaned? I seem to rember DMT marketing that they put those dot spaces between the diamond to keep the diamonds from getting clogged. I really value your imput, thanks.

I wash mine in dish soap and water after a few sharpenings, it seems to help.

[sal]

Hi Messer,

I agree with Worker#9. I wash mine every time I use them, just to keep them clean for the next use.

sal

[jaislandboy]

yeah, I'll readily admit to using Excessive Force on the stones of my Sharpmaker (as a noob sharpener with OCD and too much Red Bull) to the point where the base became cracked in the middle! SFO graciously sent me a free one despite the obvious Operator Error on my part....I had to honestly eventually stop using the 204 and learned how to sharpen the ole fashioned way... with a leather strop and the sharpening instructions from Randall made's knives website.....my rationale for the strop is No marring of the finish with minimal damage to my knives' edges when learning....I've ruined a Meadowlark and several other knives "learning to sharpen" with improper technique....
So 1.5 yrs later, if I used the 204MF, I'd probably hold the knife like a dart as shown previously by another forumite, to ensure very light pressure is used....

[razorsharp]

i clean diamond hones with oil, it seems to lift the metal off and it wipes away.

[mongatu]

I use all my diamond hones, including a bunch of DMT's and the diamond SM rods, wet (with water) and rinse them off under running water after each use. For me, this simple procedure has been sufficient to keep the metal shavings from building up too much and causing any problems.

My SM diamond rods are still pretty new but 2 of my DMT "stones" are over 15 years old and are still going strong. I think good quality diamond sharpening equipment can last a very long time if used with water and with light pressure. I hope this also proves over time to be the case with the SM diamond rods.

[The Mentaculous]

Excellent info in this thread, especially from Sal himself. I've been considering picking up some diamond rods, because I have nothing to aggressively remove steel.

I do have 2 questions--do the corners and flats work the same way they do on the regular sharpmaker rods?

Also, do the diamond rods work well for re-profiling? I know they can bring back a very dull edge, but to do you think it could re-bevel something in S30V or ZDP without committing hours to do it?

[mongatu]

Excellent info in this thread, especially from Sal himself. I've been considering picking up some diamond rods, because I have nothing to aggressively remove steel.

I do have 2 questions--do the corners and flats work the same way they do on the regular sharpmaker rods?

Also, do the diamond rods work well for re-profiling? I know they can bring back a very dull edge, but to do you think it could re-bevel something in S30V or ZDP without committing hours to do it?

The flats work the same way. I personally wouldn't use the corners, however, they are slightly more rounded than the ceramic rods, so probably could be used, although for what purpose, I don't know. I don't see a need to use diamonds on serrated knives.

The diamond rods cut a lot faster than the brown ceramics so they work pretty well for reprofiling. Not as fast as a DMT XC or XXC but close to a DMT C which is 325 grit. The D rods are 400 grit, iirc. I reprofiled a VG10 blade with them. It went reasonably fast although it still took a lot of strokes. Probably took about 30 minutes to accomplish something I wouldn't even attempt with only the medium ceramics as my coarsest abrasive.

If I was working with some very wear resistant steel and wanted a 15 degree bevel, I would probably use the diamond rods to see approximately how much metal needed to be removed and then use a DMT XC or XXC to do some of the heavy lifting and get the bevel a bit closer to 15 degrees. I would periodically recheck the angle using the diamond rods and when it was close I would then return to the diamond rods to get the bevel to exactly 15 degrees. But if all you had was the diamond rods, they would be much much faster than trying to accomplish the task with only the medium ceramics.

[Handwrecker]

I've reprofiled 10V, S30V, CPM-154, and M4 with my diamond Sharpmaker rods. They will not wear out on you, unless you use a very excessive amount of pressure. Use them like you would any other sharpening medium, and you'll be pleased. It won't be as fast as a DMT XC or XXC, though.

If they're not course enough, this thread shows a cheap and effective alternative: http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46317