Spyderco sharpness

[John G.]

I'm confused...

The grind angle on my new VG-10 SE Delica 4 seems less steep than my M2 Ritter Mini-Griptilian or my 154CM BM 707.... And, when I hold the SE D4 up to the sharpmaker, the secondary micro-bevel forming the serations and the edge seems slightly less steep than the 15 degree rods (approximately 17.5 degrees).

But the "factory edge" on the small straight edged part at the tip of the SE Delica's blade is a little sharper than I can get the two steeper beveled Benchmades using the sharpmaker 204 and the steeper 15 degree settings... With or without stroping on the cardboard backing of a legal pad afterward.

So - Does Spyderco do anything special to get new knives sharper than what can be done with the sharpmaker's fine (white) rods ?

Or - Does VG-10 typically get sharper than M2 or 154CM ?

Or - maybe it's just my sharpening skills... Can other people get their mini-Griptilian's as sharp as the Delica comes from the factory ?

Thanks.

[The General]

Uggh, a benchmade knife you say...

Spyderco knives are renound for being hair popping sharp out of the box. I am always impressed with this quality, they really are superb.

No idea about benchmade, have not bought one for many years and I don't plan to ever again.

[John G.]

Spyderco knives are renound for being hair popping sharp out of the box. I am always impressed with this quality, they really are superb.

"Why" are they so sharp out of the box ? Is there a special sharpening process, the steel, the edge geometry, something else ? If it's a sharpening process I can't duplicate without machinery (like a felt buffing wheel or something) then I'd expect the extra sharpness to go away once I need to resharpen it on the 204 Also, since I already own the griptilian, I'd like to be able to get it as sharp as my new D4. Don't worry though, I'll be carrying the D4 more than the mini-griptilian (even if they are equally sharp) since it fits my hand much better.

ps: The benchmades were just examples of knives with similar steels and edge geometrys that I can't get as sharp. I'm aware of the bad feelings many of the people on the forum have toward BM. They were knives I bought a long time ago. I don't want to hijack the thread to rehash any IP issues - but I would like to point out that BM's elimination of M2 and the use of the round-hole with liner-locks is what prompted me to check out Spyderco. So far, I have been very impressed with the value and ergonomics of the knives As a result, I'll be recommending them to the Scouts in my troop.

[yablanowitz]

I think it is the cobalt in the VG-10 that does it.

VG-10 does seem to me to take a finer edge than 154CM. I can't really say about M2, as Benchmade announced the Vex while my only M2 knife was in the mail, so I have never tried it out to see what it would do. I do know I had to reprofile my Mini-Grips to get a good edge on them. Unfortunately, I do all my sharpening freehand, so I really can't tell you what angles I used.

[John G.]

I think it is the cobalt in the VG-10 that does it.

VG-10 does seem to me to take a finer edge than 154CM.

How does VG10's maximum sharpnesss compare to S30V or ZDP-189 ? I know the edge retention is better with those steels, but do they get as sharp (or even sharper) than VG10 ?

Thanks.

[bowarrow2000]

How sharp is sharp? What I think sharp is may be entirely different to someone else. If your blade will slice newsprint, shave arm hair and make slices of wood curl up when cut then it is sharp. Maybe there is a Sharp Meter somewhere, I don't know. As far as edge rentintion goes that is going to depend upon the steel heat treat and how it was sharpened and what it is cutting.

[yablanowitz]

How does VG10's maximum sharpnesss compare to S30V or ZDP-189 ? I know the edge retention is better with those steels, but do they get as sharp (or even sharper) than VG10 ?

Thanks.

My experience (limited to carrying, sharpening and using the heck out of a bunch of knives) indicates that VG-10 takes a finer edge than S30V, presumably it has a finer grain structure and/or smaller carbides. The S30V seems to hold up better in my use than VG-10, though. I sometimes think what I need is a solid vanadium carbide blade

ZDP-189 is a different beast. It takes a finer edge than S30V, at least as fine as VG-10. It really likes to be polished smooth rather than left a little toothy like S30V. It also holds up even longer than S30V in my use. Come to think of it, I'm not carrying any VG-10 these days. They've all been replaced with either S30V or ZDP-189.

[The General]

I find S30V needs to have as polished an edge as humanly possible. If you leave a toothy edge on S30V I find its more prone to microchipping.

[clovisc]

john g. -- if you want to get your spydies even sharper with your sharpmaker, try the "ultra fine" stones. using those and a light touch, you'll be able to get your knife as sharp as you can imagine!

i'm glad you've found yourself here on the spyder-side of things... spyderco makes some fine knives any scout can afford and be proud to own and use... for years and years! i don't think a better value can be found elsewhere on the market!

[naggalowmo]

Could it be because the Delica has a saber grind at the very edge? They probably did it to give the edge more strength but sacrificed a little bit of sharpness.

[dalefuller]

I carry, use, and sharpen an Al-Mar, 4 D4s, and 4 Grips/mini-Grips in VG-10, D2, ZDP-189, and S30V. All of mine will slice and push cut newsprint, shave hair, and do actual useful cutting, one about as well as the other. I have found that Spyderco's OOB sharpness is consistently the best I've ever encountered on factory knives in 50+ years of buying knives. My Benchmades have not come as sharp as my Spydercos, but they have all touched up quite nicely.

I use the same equipment, sharpening techniques, and tests on all of them. Oops... I tell a lie... I reprofiled two of my D4s on my EdgePro. The back bevel is set at about 12 degrees and then I touch them up on my Sharpmaker and strop them a couple of times on an old leather belt. The others just get touched up on the Sharpmaker at 15 degrees (fine and U/fine rods) before they get dull and they're always ready to go.

HTH

[Jurphaas]

Hi JohnG - As you will be aware , sharpening is in fact nothing else as removing steel. So, if any knife will not become sharp or as sharp as an other knife, chances are that you have not restored the correct bevel yet and thus did not remove enough steel to restore the edge.

Many times when using the 204, you have to do more strokes as advised in the manual or as seen on the DVD or tape. Then, ater the corse stones go to the fine stones for the honing action or - like sugested earlier - turn even further to the extra fine stones (an optional item). Also please make sure that you clean your 204 system frequently with Ajax and a green 3M scrubbing pad.
Good Luck!
Jurphaas

[thombrogan]

What Jurphaas said!

You can get your edges sharper than factory-fresh with the Sharpmaker, but you need to put your practice in and differentiate between force and "the force" because one will ruin your chances of getting a super edge.

[Simple Man]

Just to backup what Thom and Jurphaas said, you can get sharper than factory results with the 204 by using thoughtful, deliberate, but not forceful strokes. It will come with time and practice. This is with just the two sets of rods provided.

As far as S30V and VG-10, I can get screaming, hair popping, TP slicing edges on both, but the S30V seems to lose its superfine edge quicker than the VG-10, but keep a using edge longer. The VG-10 seems to "degrade" as a more constant rate. But YMMDV.

I thinned the edges down to less than 30 degrees for my VG-10 E4 user, but sharpen it to 40 deg microbevel, it tends to slice better this way and handle the (ab)use I give it.

[John G.]

I figured out why the Spyderco Delica 4 seemed so much shaper. The edge angle on the serrations is 22 degrees inclusive, rather than the 30 degrees inclusive on my two benchmades.

Does anyone know how well 22 degrees holds up well on a plain edge blade of S30V or VG10 / 154CM ? ie: Does the "steep cental" part of the serrated edge need the curved "arch" shape of the serrations to reinforce it to prevent a lot of chipping ?

I also see some Spyderco's flat-ground blades (as oppossed to sabre ground) like the Calypso have 17 degree inclusive edges inside the serrations. Anyone know how well 17 degrees holds up on a plain edge blade of S30V or VG-10 / 154CM ?

Thanks.