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Thread: Kubotan help!!!

  1. #1
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Kubotan help!!!

    G'day Mike,



    Thanks for replying to my query about Kubotan manuals so promptly. I must say I did get a surprise when you answered my email to Paladin <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.



    I aplologise for this post being a bit off topic, but I'm a real newby in this area and I know I'm among friends here <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I'm old enough to carry a cane without raising too many eyebrows and I intend to train with and carry one as my main street defence. My interest in Kubotans was as a back-up. I don't have the MA background for joint locks and such but would like to be able to use a miniMaglite for striking. I have read that James Keating's &quot;Reverse Grip Knife Fighting&quot; video translates well into strikes with a blunt instrument such as a miniMaglite or pen (or the butt of my Chinese Folder<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>). Would this be the way to go or would I be better off with one of Tak Kubota's books or Ted Lucaylucay's tape?



    Take care,

    Clay



    p.s. Anybody else feel free to jump in on this, I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people here.



    Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

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    Clay, stop advertising the fact that you're old enough for a cane!!!!!.....you're still very spry for a senior!!!<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle><img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

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    Dear Clay:

    Once you understand the angles, just about any blade technique can also be performed with a kubotan or hammerfist strike. If you're going to invest in a book or video, I'd suggest getting one on the topic at hand. I'll do some research and see if I can find some specific sources for you. I've heard the Lucaylucay video is pretty good, but have not personally seen it. You can find it on www.cfwenterprises.com. I'll have to find a source for Kubota's books.

    There are also some interesting sections on koppo-jutsu in the book &quot;Stick Fighting&quot; by Masaaki Hatsumi and Quintin Chambers. The rest of the book deals with the jo and would fit with your cane-fighting methods.

    I'll get back to you in a few days.

    Stay safe,

    mike j

  4. #4
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Hy, reckon I'll just have to feign a limp, old football injury you know <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. It is going to look a bit strange carrying a cane on the days when I ride my daughter's fold-up scooter home from work. See ya Friday, and don't worry I won't embarrass you, I'm coming by push bike not scooter <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle><img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

    Mike, thank you very much for your help. Amazon have Kubota's books including a second-hand copy of Kubotan Keychain. Due to our horrendous exchange rate I'm wary of buying anything which isn't going to give me what I need. I've seen the Masaaki Hatsumi book referred to elsewhere and it may well be what I'm looking for. Basically I'm just an old bloke who's looking for a few straight forward moves to keep himself and his family safe on the street and travelling.

    Thanks again,
    Clay

    Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    In searching the net I've come across a book by Bruce Tegner called &quot;Stick Fighting: Self Defense.&quot; It seems to cover the yawara and handstick as well as the cane. Does anybody know anything about it or Mr. Tegner?

    Clay

    Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

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    Hey, Clay--

    I've got &quot;Official Kubotan Techniques&quot; by Kubota and Peters. . .if that's the book you referred to earlier I can offer the following:

    This book focuses much more on Law-Enforcement Officer techniques than on self-defense. Most of the material involves using the Kubotan to facilitate 'wrist locks and control holds' in scenarios including handcuffing, come-alongs, vehicle extractions, and others.

    There are sequences illustrating a response to punches, a kick, wrist grab, bear hug, full nelson, and rear choke, but it's a small fraction of the overall book.

    Hope that's useful. . .
    Vince

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    Tegner was one of the first Americans to write seriously about the martial arts back in the 60's.I'd call him sound.?Where'd you find the book-I want a copy!
    J.J.Truncale(Pro-Systems,POB 261,Glenview,IL
    60025-0261.www.samuraiway.com)has a system specific to the curve-handled cane.I've seen his videos &amp; am impressed.

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Thanks fellas,

    Vince, that's exactly the sort of thing I need to know. I saw that book at Amazon and Shomer-Tec and was wondering if it would fill the bill. Kubotan Keychain is the first book and I'm hoping it might be more self-defence oriented.

    Earthworm, I found Tegner's book at Asian World of Self Defence. Here is the link: http://www.awma.com/index.cfm?action=productdetail&amp;product_id=8985 . Amazon says it is out of print so it'll be interesting to see if AWMA have it in stock. Perhaps I'd better order it just in case they only have one copy <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

    Clay

    Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

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    Clay:I just reread your inital post.Try a Websearch for'police bookshelf'or'massad ayoob'(Police Bookshelf is Mas' company) as they have at least one book on useing the Maglight as a defensive weapon.Paladin Press,Delta Press or Loompanics would also be good sources to check.www.gunvideo.com has a tape'Mastering the Walking Stick'-that's gonna be my Christmas present to me!

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    Clay...massad ayoob's webpage is www.ayoob.com.....just to save you a bit of trouble.....musnt make the old coot with a cane do any more work than necessary....<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle><img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

  11. #11
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not having much luck <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I tried to order the used copy of &quot;Kubotan Keychain&quot; through Amazon but the seller does not ship internationally. Then I went to order Bruce Tegner's book from AWMA but they want $25 for shipping overseas, too much for a $10 book. I did find some diagrams on Don Rearic's page, which are a good start and the sort of thing I'm looking for.

    Earthworm, I had a look at the Maglite book on Massad Ayoob's website but it seems to be aimed more at the large D-cell torches. I've ordered a copy of Ted Truscott's video (Sochin on the forums). His system is aimed at the over 55's which sounds about right for me <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

    Thanks again for all the help.

    Clay

    Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

    Edited by - Clay Kesting on 11/3/2001 5:41:40 PM

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    I can speak from experience about the Kubutan book by John Peters and Tak Kubota. I was certified as a Defensive Tactics Instructor by Mr. Peters. The techniques taught in the book are effective with either a Kubotan or Mini-Mag flashlight. If you purchase a Kubotan, try to get one without the ridges. If used, the potential exists that you could severely damage or even sever nerves in the hand. (My personal opinion in this is: If the bastard lays hands upon you and suffers an injury as a result, it is his tough s#$t. However, as a voice of reason in an ever litigation friendly world, I cannot recommend the ridged model)

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    I can speak from experience about the Kubutan book by John Peters and Tak Kubota. I was certified as a Defensive Tactics Instructor by Mr. Peters. The techniques taught in the book are effective with either a Kubotan or Mini-Mag flashlight. If you purchase a Kubotan, try to get one without the ridges. If used, the potential exists that you could severely damage or even sever nerves in the hand. (My personal opinion in this is: If the bastard lays hands upon you and suffers an injury as a result, it is his tough s#$t. However, as a voice of reason in an ever litigation friendly world, I cannot recommend the ridged model)

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    I ventured into the realm of woodworking and used my neighnor's lathe to turn one today. It seems like a very effective one. Hopefully I'll be able to make some out of ironwood.

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    Hi
    I am a ASP instructor in Arizona
    ASP makes a Kubaton/pepper spray combo that is great as a dual function weapon
    if you are interested

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    Clay,

    Combat and training canes, as well as training materials can be found at www.canemaster.com. The canes are low profile, but designed and fabricated as fighting tools (larger crooks for neck takedowns, subtle squaring of the shaft for pressure point manipulation, carved gripping areas etc.). The site is well designed and informative.

    You might also seek training in Hapkido (a Korean martial art) for cane and short stick techniques.

    Regarding the Kubotan/maglite issure; I've had a Kubotan keychain confiscated at an airport (this was prior to Sept. 11), but no one looks twice at the mini maglite.

    Edited by - wayfarer on 12/2/2001 2:36:32 PM

  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Wayfarer,

    Thanks for replying to my post. I have already spent way too much time drooling over the Canemaster canes and was ready to order one until I realised that, once the cost of shipping and our exchange rate was taken into account, even the cheapest cane would cost about AUS$120 <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. Instead I picked up a locally made walking stick for AUS$30. The crook isn't open enough for hooking but I really only want it for striking anyway. It's supposed to be made from jarrah which is a West Australian hardwood with similar properties to purpleheart so it should go the distance. I'll train with it and give it a few solid wacks to see how it holds up. I'd still like to get a Canemasters eventually.

    Interesting comment about your Kubotan being confiscated. They are prohibited weapons in one state here (Victoria) and I expect other states to follow suit. I was looking at the Streamlight BatonLite but they've apparently engraved &quot;Baton&quot; on the side of it which sort of defeats the purpose. The Mini Maglite OTOH seems to be an &quot;invisible&quot; weapon like the cane.

    Take care,
    Clay

    "The trouble is that you think you have time."

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    Clay,

    Mas Ayoob turned me on to the Maglight c-cell flashlight. It's shaft is slimmer, it's lighter and held in a hammer grip with the thumb or forefinger on the switch, the shaft will extend along the outside of the forearm. Choose a length that stops just short of the elbow. (That's the 4-cell model for me.) As an aid to elbow strikes and forearm blocks, it's quite effective and seldom raises eyebrows.

    later,
    wayfarer

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    Gee Clay, if you like kubaton why not try a Gunting DRONE..( sorry no CRMIPT out yet!)
    Its a modern day Kubaton with a bit of balisong thrown in..Actually thats what I'm teaching the Leo &amp; federeal agencies right now..Impact Tool stuff using the Drone as a Kubaton replacement..
    The LEO community in print has called it the best less than lethal tool ever designed..
    Sorry Taky..better mousetrap's been built..

    There's more surface area, curves and angles to hit &amp; use..

    Ted Lucaylucay's tape from Unique is very good on Kubaton style techniques..He uses the olisi Palid as more of a striking tool..since its Filipino oriented..

    Happy holidays ..be safe!!
    whatever tool you choose to use, use it wisely!!



  20. #20
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clay Kesting's Avatar
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    Bram,

    I've thought about it long and hard and still might buy a drone. However I have a couple of problems with it.

    The first is legal. This is from the list of prohibited weapons of one Australian state (Victoria): &quot;Sticks or rods of any material designed as weapons to be applied to the pressure points of the human body, including the martial arts weapon known as <b>Kubotan </b> .&quot; I think this would make even the Gunting drone illegal. I expect that my own state will eventually follow suit as the states try to keep their legislation uniform in this area. Even if it isn't expressly prohibited, I'm still uncertain about explaining why I was carrying the drone as it has no other use than as a weapon. In an altercation without witnesses, the protagonist who was &quot;armed&quot; can easily become the agressor in the eyes of the law. OTOH I can usually find a &quot;lawful reason&quot; for carrying a knife, no one is likely to question a MiniMaglite and I can always develop a limp which necessitates me carrying a cane <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

    The second problem is more practical. I'm not sure how I could actually carry the drone. I still need my pocket(s) for my utility knive(s) and I rarely wear a jacket so a belt sheath is out of the question. OTOH I still need to think this out more as I can't always carry my cane i.e. riding my bike to work <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>, and I don't carry the MiniMaglite during the day. I'm still thinking of a Stinger to carry all the time although I have the same legal concerns with that as the Gunting drone. Maybe an olisi Palid version of the Gunting would be an alternative?

    If I did decide to go with the drone, is it necessary to purchase all of your tapes or are some tapes more specific for the closed use of the knife. Alternatively, what about coming to Australia for a seminar? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

    One last question (I promise). Is Ted Lucaylucay's tape suitable for someone with no MA background.

    Thanks for your help.

    Take care,
    Clay




    &quot;The trouble is that you think you have time.&quot;

    Edited by - Clay Kesting on 12/7/2001 2:53:40 AM

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