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Thread: Paramilitary 2 Salt

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User senorsquare's Avatar
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    Paramilitary 2 Salt

    Full serrated H-1, yellow paramilitary 2. This needs to happen. That is all.

  2. #2
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Blerv's Avatar
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    Stretch first plz !
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User phillipsted's Avatar
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    It would take a lot of re-engineering/re-design to turn the Para2 into a Salt, I'm afraid...

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User 3rdGenRigger's Avatar
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    And only the Japanese made Spydercos get Japanese steel, so you won't likely see a PM2 Salt ever.
    Ladybug (Salt/SuperBlue/White SE), Native (FRN), Dragonfly (Salt/Orange/SuperBlue/G10), Lava (Blue), Ulize, Byrdwrench
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    I'd rather see a FFG SE G-10 Police 3 Salt in all H1 steel including liners and hardware. Now THAT would be awesome and should definitely happen! .....and can happen since it is made in Japan. Actually, I am a little puzzled why it hasn't already happened since a knife intended for LEO usage would definitely benefit from a rustproof H-1 steel with SE. Any idea why this hasn't already happened? A G-10 H-1 Police 3 version I am thinking would be far more desirable than a Pacific Salt.....especially with full H-1 liners.
    Last edited by ManixFan; 07-04-2014 at 08:18 PM.
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    Spyderco Forum Registered User Clip's Avatar
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    Does LC200-N work harden like H1?
    Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

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  7. #7
    Spyderco Forum Registered User SpyderNut's Avatar
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    Some info on LC200N from the Man himself:

    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post
    Hi Grizz,

    LC 200 N was probably the first Nitrogen steel made. I first heard about it about 15 years ago when NASA was looking at it. It went by the name of Cronidur 30. It was difficult to get. We've been looking for salt water friendly blade materials for many years. We've tried many steels and ceramics looking for that great salt water material. Being a sailor and a diver, I felt the need. When H1 became available, we felt that the technology was starting to get there.

    When Zapp made it available under the LC name, they showed it to us. We had some connections with the people involved. The tusk is our first model with it. Now the "Real world" study begins.

    sal
    It looks like it gets a conventinal heat-treat:

    "LC 200 N is a high nitrogen alloyed tool steel which exhibits superior corrosion resistance combined with high toughness even at hardness up to 60 HRc. Combining PESR-Process (Pressurized Electric Slag Remelting) with a smart forging technology, an amazing increase in cleanliness and structure, which means a very fine and homogenious microstructure, can be achieved. Primary advantage is excellent machinability and polishability as well as a high dimensional stability after heat treatment. For this reason LC 200 N is the high end solution for tools facing high static and dynamical load under a high corrosive environment at higher temperatures. Compared to standard tool steels like 1.2316, 1.4112 and 1.4125 LC 200 N exhibits higher corrosion resistance and toughness as well as a higher tempering resistance up to 500 C still at a hardness of 58-60 HRc.

    TYPAL APPLIKATIONS
    _ Blades, portioner- and filling-units in the food-industry
    _ Pumpcomponents, spindles, extrusion- and portioner units for chemical- and pharmaceutical industry
    _ Tabletticing tools
    _ Mirror-polished dies for plastics industry
    _ Shredderknives and granulator and pelletizer for recycling industry"

    Source: http://zappnews.com/images/pdfs/LC200NData.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdGenRigger View Post
    And only the Japanese made Spydercos get Japanese steel, so you won't likely see a PM2 Salt ever.
    Generally true, good rule of thumb to follow, but there's at least one exception in the forthcoming Autonomy, as far as H1 is concerned.

  9. #9
    Spyderco Forum Registered User bearfacedkiller's Avatar
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    If it kept the steel liners and made them from h1 plus making all the other metal parts from h1 as well it would end up being a very expensive knife. I am all for a g10 salt knife of some sort. That's a fact.
    -Darby

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    Spyderco Forum Registered User yablanowitz's Avatar
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    Not to mention that the cost of flat grinding H-1 would be prohibitive. It can be done, but it does not lend itself to mass production methods, which has been discussed here a dozen times.
    I don't believe in safe queens, only in pre-need replacements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bearfacedkiller View Post
    If it kept the steel liners and made them from h1 plus making all the other metal parts from h1 as well it would end up being a very expensive knife. I am all for a g10 salt knife of some sort. That's a fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by yablanowitz View Post
    Not to mention that the cost of flat grinding H-1 would be prohibitive. It can be done, but it does not lend itself to mass production methods, which has been discussed here a dozen times.
    I guess these two comments answer my question of why a Police 3 G10 H-1 has never appeared on the scene. Which is too bad as the SE version of the Police 3 is an incredibly nice version of a SE and even comes with a FFG which is far preferable to me than hollow ground SE's.

    Perhaps this new LC 200 N steel might be more conducive to ever seeing a high corrosion resistant Police 3 or PM 2.
    Last edited by ManixFan; 07-05-2014 at 07:47 PM.
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  12. #12
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    In regards to flat grinding H1, I have done that it doesn't grind very hard, especially compared to some of the steels Spyderco flat grinds - though the higher carbide steels come with high price tags to possibly reflect that. I would be curious what abrasives/speeds/coolants are being used however as if those are not ideal then the grindability can be seriously compromised. The fact that the grinding is affecting the hardening is a sign of that actually.

  13. #13
    Spyderco Forum Registered User v8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManixFan View Post
    I'd rather see a FFG SE G-10 Police 3 Salt in all H1 steel including liners and hardware. Now THAT would be awesome and should definitely happen! .....and can happen since it is made in Japan. Actually, I am a little puzzled why it hasn't already happened since a knife intended for LEO usage would definitely benefit from a rustproof H-1 steel with SE. Any idea why this hasn't already happened? A G-10 H-1 Police 3 version I am thinking would be far more desirable than a Pacific Salt.....especially with full H-1 liners.
    I like the way you think! Build it with some yellow G10 , hollow grind, and full serrations of course. You would also get more of a work hardening process if the the blade was ground this way in my opinion.
    It would be cool to have a Para 2 and a Manix 2 in H1 as we'll. the Autonomy is being built stateside with H1 so I don't see as it would be impossible.
    V8R



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    Quote Originally Posted by v8r View Post
    I like the way you think! Build it with some yellow G10 , hollow grind, and full serrations of course. You would also get more of a work hardening process if the the blade was ground this way in my opinion.
    It would be cool to have a Para 2 and a Manix 2 in H1 as we'll. the Autonomy is being built stateside with H1 so I don't see as it would be impossible.
    Yellow G10 wouldn't be my first choice but since it would be a Salt version then I would forgive the use of yellow. I would just have to dye it and as I understand it yellow is one of the best colours to take Rit dye. But if you went with the yellow G10 then the H1 SE steel should be a black blade - just for the nice contrast, even if the coating adds nothing towards rust protection

    I also prefer the flat grind of the current SE police but if it make a big difference in edge retention then I would prefer the hollow ground SE H1.
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  15. #15
    Spyderco Forum Registered User v8r's Avatar
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    I think it would be cool for Spyderco to use some yellow G10. If I remember correctly we have never had a model with yellow G10 from Spyderco.
    V8R



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  16. #16
    Spyderco Forum Registered User The Deacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearfacedkiller View Post
    If it kept the steel liners and made them from h1 plus making all the other metal parts from h1 as well it would end up being a very expensive knife. I am all for a g10 salt knife of some sort. That's a fact.
    I'm not saying thata Police 3, or any other G-10 model in H-1 is something Spyderco would consider producing, but FWIW, there's no need to use H-1 for the liners and backspacer. There are a number of relatively inexpensive, highly rust resistant, steels out there. It's just that, aside of table knives, where "edge holding" is irrelevant, they're useless as blade steels.

    Flat grinding H-1, OTOH, would definitely be a deal breaker.
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  17. #17
    Spyderco Forum Registered User Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    I'm not saying thata Police 3, or any other G-10 model in H-1 is something Spyderco would consider producing, but FWIW, there's no need to use H-1 for the liners and backspacer. There are a number of relatively inexpensive, highly rust resistant, steels out there. It's just that, aside of table knives, where "edge holding" is irrelevant, they're useless as blade steels.

    Flat grinding H-1, OTOH, would definitely be a deal breaker.
    Good points sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deacon View Post
    Flat grinding H-1, OTOH, would definitely be a deal breaker.
    I'm not a steel expert but I do know that H-1 is a work hardened steel. Are you saying that a flat ground SE blade will not be as hard as required for edge retention as compared to a hollow ground SE blade? Is this what makes it a "deal breaker"?
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  19. #19
    Spyderco Forum Registered User xceptnl's Avatar
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    I would like to see something stateside produced with H1 like the Para 2 or Manix 2, but if I was hoping for some new Salt model that hand never been produced I would think a stainless Police SE would be best. Machined (maybe chevron pattern) aluminum handles with an H1 SE Hollow-ground blade. Where do I sign up?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by xceptnl View Post
    I would like to see something stateside produced with H1 like the Para 2 or Manix 2, but if I was hoping for some new Salt model that hand never been produced I would think a stainless Police SE would be best. Machined (maybe chevron pattern) aluminum handles with an H1 SE Hollow-ground blade. Where do I sign up?
    Although I'd love to see a new dark coloured (dark grey or dark blue) Peel Ply carbon fiber handled Police 3 SE in some cool steel like H1, I can definitely see the appeal in what you are suggesting as well with the aluminum handled H1 SE Police 3. But the edge should definitely only be serrated. IMHO the FFG serrated version of the Police 3 is the nicest looking blade of all the Police blade types produced

    But if H1 performs best under the hollow grind then that should of course be the over-riding consideration in choosing a grind type. Perhaps a FFG SE version in a boutique steel?
    Last edited by ManixFan; 07-06-2014 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Didn't edit....changed my mind.
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