Congress Tools stones for Edge Pro

[jackknifeh]

People who use Edge Pro sharpeners may be interested in this.

Ankerson mentioned stones from Congress Tools in another thread. I (and a couple of others) expressed interest in them. This post is not about Congress stones in particular, but the thickness of the stones being used with an EP sharpeer. The stones are very inexpensive and there is a very wide variety of stones and sizes to choose from. The reason I’m posting this is I’m going to get the ¼” thick stones instead of the 1/8” thick stones. The EP stones measure 1/8” thick x 1” x 6”. Of course the ¼” stones will last longer which is why I’m getting them. The problem is that the increased thickness will change the angle the stone hits the edge of your knife at. The thicker stone will lower the angle the EP is set to. The EP stone is 1/8” thick and if you set the sharpener to 20 deg. per side the stone should hit the edge very very close to 20 deg. per side. The sharpener is not completely, perfectly accurate all the time because as your stones get thinner from use the angle for a given stone will increase if you set the EP to 20 deg. per side. As the stone gets thinner the rod that holds the stone gets lower over time. As it gets lower at the end of the rod that holds the stone but stays the same on the pivot rod the angle the stone hits the edge at gets higher by a tiny bit. If you use a 320 brand new stone and create a perfectly flat bevel at 20 deg. per side then switch to a very old thinner 600 stone and don’t change the pivot angle you will notice the edge is being hit by the stone at a higher angle and you will be hitting the edge bevel RIGHT ON THE EDGE and not higher on the bevel. That is because the second stone is thinner than the stone you created the bevel with. So, if you use a thicker stone (1/4” instead of 1/8”) and set the EP to 20 deg. per side the angle the ¼” stone will hit the blade edge is going to be lower than if you were using a 1/8” stone. BUT, if you raise the pivot by 1/8” the thicker stone should be hitting the edge at 20 deg. per side. That is because the ¼” stone is 1/8” thicker than the 1/8” thick stone. This is a guide. The only way to make sure you are hitting the edge bevel at the same angle when you change stones is to mark the edge when you start with a new stone. Sometimes you can see the different scratch pattern with a new stone but the marker makes it easier to see any angle change (if any).

By making this angle adjustment we can buy thicker stones which will be a much more economical purchase. It’s not enough to buy a new car because of the savings but it is a little plus you don’t need to worry about the stones wearing out as fast if you do a lot of sharpening.

This sounds like a lot to worry about just to sharpen a knife but if you want very accurate, polished bevels they need to be sharpened as accurately as possible. The EP is one of the few sharpeners that make this level of accuracy possible. It takes a little getting used to but having this accuracy at your fingertips is what makes the EP a great tool.

If there are any questions or this wasn't written well enough to understand please say so (if you are interested at all). Also, if you can see any flaw in my thinking let me know before I waste any money. :D I always appreciate that.

Jack
PS edit: If I end up buying a bunch of 1/4" stones and only using them I may put a 1/8" item under the pivot rod in the EP sharpener. That way if I set the sharpener to 20 deg. the thicker 1/4" stone should hit the edge at 20 deg. per side. That way I wouldn't need to do any math or readjust the sharpener as often. There will always be some adjustment necessary though. This was just an ofter post thought.

[phillipsted]

Jack - I use the Congress Stones mounted on my Wicked Edge blank paddles and have the same problem. I wasn't consistently hitting the edge when I transitioned from the stock diamond stones to the Congress stones - because they are about 4mm-5mm thicker.

I broke out my angle cube and did a little math - and the angle for the Congress stones is about 2 degrees steeper than the stock WEPS stones. I just backed off two degrees and tested it with the sharpie - and it seems to work fine.

I'm using the coarse Congress Moldmaster stones for most of my re-profiling tasks now. They are fantastic, and way cheaper than the Chosera waterstones! I've never been a fan of coarse diamond stones (like the WEPS ultra-coarse paddles) because they leave such big "ruts" in the steel. The Moldmaster stones give me a finer finish on the reprofiling - and work great with VG-10 and s30V blades. I haven't tried the Moldmaster yet with ZDP-189 and other supersteels...

Anyway - I hope that helps!

TedP

[jackknifeh]

Jack - I use the Congress Stones mounted on my Wicked Edge blank paddles and have the same problem. I wasn't consistently hitting the edge when I transitioned from the stock diamond stones to the Congress stones - because they are about 4mm-5mm thicker.

I broke out my angle cube and did a little math - and the angle for the Congress stones is about 2 degrees steeper than the stock WEPS stones. I just backed off two degrees and tested it with the sharpie - and it seems to work fine.

I'm using the coarse Congress Moldmaster stones for most of my re-profiling tasks now. They are fantastic, and way cheaper than the Chosera waterstones! I've never been a fan of coarse diamond stones (like the WEPS ultra-coarse paddles) because they leave such big "ruts" in the steel. The Moldmaster stones give me a finer finish on the reprofiling - and work great with VG-10 and s30V blades. I haven't tried the Moldmaster yet with ZDP-189 and other supersteels...

Anyway - I hope that helps!

TedP

That helps a lot. I was going to get a couple to try but may get more for a wider grit selection. The sad thing is I have 3 brand new EP stones (finest grits). Since I have them maybe I should wait till Christmas to get the Congress stones. That will give my wife something to get me that I know I'll want. It's a thought but I hate to wait. :( The price is a lot lower than the Edge Pro stones also. I can buy a 1/4" stone for less than a 1/8" EP stone costs. I do want to say the stones that come with the Edge Pro are very nice. I would be happy with them forever but like most people like to try new things sometimes. Especially a less expensive product that comes highly recommended by people you trust.

I talked to someone at Congress the other day and he said to look at the "flex" category under "polishing" stones to get a better stone for a "mirror" appearance. I think they are softer stones but not sure.

Thanks,
Jack

[.357 mag]

Just used my congress stones last night. There amazing! I got the 320,400,600 stones. I quick strop and I'm done. Both my ZDP delica and my VG-10 endura will push cut TP. Pretty sweet! Oh, and the I think the 320 congress stone cuts way faster than the 120 EP stone. Just a heads up. :)

Overall I'm happy. I'm using a 3 stone process instead of a 5 stone, 2 polishing tape process.

[chuck_roxas45]

Jack
PS edit: If I end up buying a bunch of 1/4" stones and only using them I may put a 1/8" item under the pivot rod in the EP sharpener. That way if I set the sharpener to 20 deg. the thicker 1/4" stone should hit the edge at 20 deg. per side. That way I wouldn't need to do any math or readjust the sharpener as often. There will always be some adjustment necessary though. This was just an ofter post thought.


Jack I know an easy way to compensate for the thickness between stones. Here's how it's done.

Set the angle you want to sharpen at. Attach a clamp to the angle rod. Hold a stone under the base of the pivot. Now slide the clamp up so that it's underneath the stone. Once you do this, you don't need to move the clamp again. To adjust when you change stones, loosen the screw on the pivot, move it up (out of the way), put the next stone you want to use on top of the clamp, lower the pivot until it's resting on the stone, tighten the screw, and put the stone in the EP. The angle will now match the original set angle.

I'll put up some pics later.

[jackknifeh]

Just used my congress stones last night. There amazing! I got the 320,400,600 stones. I quick strop and I'm done. Both my ZDP delica and my VG-10 endura will push cut TP. Pretty sweet! Oh, and the I think the 320 congress stone cuts way faster than the 120 EP stone. Just a heads up. :)

Overall I'm happy. I'm using a 3 stone process instead of a 5 stone, 2 polishing tape process.

Sounds great. Which type stones did you get? Was it the moldmaster or something else. At the moment I have decided on the moldmaster type stones but a guy at Congress Tools said the EDM stones are good for knives also.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Jack I know an easy way to compensate for the thickness between stones. Here's how it's done.

Set the angle you want to sharpen at. Attach a clamp to the angle rod. Hold a stone under the base of the pivot. Now slide the clamp up so that it's underneath the stone. Once you do this, you don't need to move the clamp again. To adjust when you change stones, loosen the screw on the pivot, move it up (out of the way), put the next stone you want to use on top of the clamp, lower the pivot until it's resting on the stone, tighten the screw, and put the stone in the EP. The angle will now match the original set angle.

I'll put up some pics later.

I'd like to know more about your "fix" for different angles but am having a hard time picturing what you have done. Pictures would make it perfectly clear I'm sure so I'll be looking forward to pictures.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Jack, I just made a video. I'm sorry for the bad English but I hope it's clearer this time. I find that this method saves on the trial and error of sharpie then moving the arm until you are able to match it up when changing from stones of different thicknesses. Just ask any questions and I'll try to answer as best I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXvHAGyxq0M

[jackknifeh]

Jack, I just made a video. I'm sorry for the bad English but I hope it's clearer this time. I find that this method saves on the trial and error of sharpie then moving the arm until you are able to match it up when changing from stones of different thicknesses. Just ask any questions and I'll try to answer as best I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXvHAGyxq0M

Great idea. I'm going to try that today. Thanks for the video. That made it very easy to understand.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Great idea. I'm going to try that today. Thanks for the video. That made it very easy to understand.

Jack

Can't take the credit, I saw it somewhere. I hope it works for you.

[jackknifeh]

Jack, I just made a video. I'm sorry for the bad English but I hope it's clearer this time. I find that this method saves on the trial and error of sharpie then moving the arm until you are able to match it up when changing from stones of different thicknesses. Just ask any questions and I'll try to answer as best I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXvHAGyxq0M

I just tried the clamp idea and it worked great. I used an old very thin 320 stone and a brand new 600 stone. I set the EP so it hit a previously established bevel on a knife using the 320 stone. I then took out the 320 stone and set the clamp with the 320 stone between the clamp and the pivot. Then I put the 600 stone in the EP. As expected the stone hit the bevel too high on the blade (lower angle). Then I loosened the pivot and raised it. I took the 600 stone out of the EP and rested it on top of the clamp, then lowered the pivot so it sat on top of the stone and tightened it. Now the thicker 600 stone hit the bevel the same as the thinner 320 stone did. This follows the directions Chuck gave then provided the video to illustrate. This makes adjusting the EP for thicker stones easier just like he had said. I'm going to need smaller clamps than I have now because the clamp I have makes it impossible to use the angle settings lower than 15 deg.

Thanks Chuck,
Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I just tried the clamp idea and it worked great. I used an old very thin 320 stone and a brand new 600 stone. I set the EP so it hit a previously established bevel on a knife using the 320 stone. I then took out the 320 stone and set the clamp with the 320 stone between the clamp and the pivot. Then I put the 600 stone in the EP. As expected the stone hit the bevel too high on the blade (lower angle). Then I loosened the pivot and raised it. I took the 600 stone out of the EP and rested it on top of the clamp, then lowered the pivot so it sat on top of the stone and tightened it. Now the thicker 600 stone hit the bevel the same as the thinner 320 stone did. This follows the directions Chuck gave then provided the video to illustrate. This makes adjusting the EP for thicker stones easier just like he had said. I'm going to need smaller clamps than I have now because the clamp I have makes it impossible to use the angle settings lower than 15 deg.

Thanks Chuck,
Jack

I'm glad it works for you Jack, I do have a smaller clip I use for lower angles.

You can also use a 5/16's drill bit collar for that Jack. Just put a thumbscrew on the drill bit collar.

[jackknifeh]

I'm glad it works for you Jack, I do have a smaller clip I use for lower angles.

You can also use a 5/16's drill bit collar for that Jack. Just put a thumbscrew on the drill bit collar.

Now the drill bit collar is really a good idea. I will be getting one if I don't have one the correct size already. Thanks again.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Now the drill bit collar is really a good idea. I will be getting one if I don't have one the correct size already. Thanks again.

Jack

Still can't take credit for that. :D

But glad you like it.

[jackknifeh]

Still can't take credit for that. :D

But glad you like it.

I found a drill bit collar that works perfect. I made what I call edge guide blocks several months ago that hold the blade perfectly still and now here is this little trick. Both help to put a much more accurate angle on the blade very easily. Very cool.

Jack

[.357 mag]

Sounds great. Which type stones did you get? Was it the moldmaster or something else. At the moment I have decided on the moldmaster type stones but a guy at Congress Tools said the EDM stones are good for knives also.

Jack

I went with the moldmaster. I looked at the EDM stones but they sound to much like the EP stones.

All I need now is Spyderco to make a UF 1x6x1/8 ceramic stone. :)

[jackknifeh]

I went with the moldmaster. I looked at the EDM stones but they sound to much like the EP stones.

All I need now is Spyderco to make a UF 1x6x1/8 ceramic stone. :)

That would the the great day. I thought about getting the fine 1/8" x 1" x 5" stone. I have the double stuff with the fine and med. glued together. I could glue the 5" fine stone to an EP blank. The stone would only be 5" but it would work. I would do that if they had the UF 5" stone but they don't. Gluing it to an EP blank would also give you a 1" handle to hold while using the stone. :D I find them a little thin to hold in the palm of my hand. I know I'll slice myself. :eek:

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Just used my congress stones last night. There amazing! I got the 320,400,600 stones. I quick strop and I'm done. Both my ZDP delica and my VG-10 endura will push cut TP. Pretty sweet! Oh, and the I think the 320 congress stone cuts way faster than the 120 EP stone. Just a heads up. :)

Overall I'm happy. I'm using a 3 stone process instead of a 5 stone, 2 polishing tape process.


I went with the moldmaster. I looked at the EDM stones but they sound to much like the EP stones.

All I need now is Spyderco to make a UF 1x6x1/8 ceramic stone. :)

I got the same three stones late yesterday afternoon. I sharpened my new Native (got it yesterday also) last night. I was AMAZED! I'm not kidding at all. The knife was at a level of sharpness I have never achieved before. And I thought I was getting pretty good at this sharpening thing. For the first time ever I also cut toilet paper and my cut was very clean. No tearing at all. Just slicing. Today I touched up my Manix2 with M4. It was already sharp enough that I wouldn't even think about sharpening it. Not even a touch up. After a few strokes with the 320 Congress stone and a few strokes on a strop I get the same thing, slicing TP with ease. :D Now I'm going to try the 320 stone on my ZDP Delica. That will be my final test as far as different steel. If the stones perform as well on ZDP as the others I may pick up another set now just in case the company goes out of business. :(

A couple of things I'm unshure of for now. I didn't get a mirror finish on the bevel. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time to get that result. I'm not too concerned about that but it's something to be aware of if I ever want a mirror finish. I have a brand new set of the EP stones and might get the new 1200 grit EP stone just to have it. I haven't had the sharpness success with them as I just did with the Congress stones but maybe the Congress stones aren't as good at obtaining a mirror finish. I don't really know yet though. I mean the Congress stones are called polishing stones, not sharpening stones. I think I'm right about that. Hang on while I check. Thanks for waiting. :) The Moldmaster stones fall under the polishing stone category. Oh well, with the new level of sharp I seem to be getting a mirror finish is livewithoutable.

Another thing is the 600 stone seemed to be VERY soft. Using an Edge Pro the stone is on top of the blade. After using the 600 stone there were particles of the stone on the glass I sit my EP on. With the success I'm getting with just the 320 stone I don't even know if I need the 400 or 600 stones. Time will tell. I may sound stupid but these are water stones aren't they? I used water on them just like I do the EP stones. If I put too much water on them maybe that is why the 600 stone seemed to be soft enough for some of it to end up on my table. I'm really confused about that. :confused:

I would appreciate yours and other's opinions on these stones. You too Ankerson if you are reading this. After all you started it. You were the first one I heard mention them.

Finally, in this post I compared the Congress moldmaster stones with the EP stones. I don't guess they are really Edge Pro stones. Whatever the real name is I call them EP stones because they came with the EP. If I had not found out about the Congress stones the EP stones would be perfectly fine forever. I'm not about to get rid of them. Like I mentioned before they seem to put a better finish on an edge appearance wise. They also sharpen great. It's just the moldmaster's seem to do better. Anyway, I'm interested in whatever opinions others have about them and would recommend that anyone buy some. The price is really really really good for the stones I bought. If I do order more I'm going to get more than three stones because the three I bought were about the same amount as the shipping. I think I could tripple (at least) the number of stones without increasing the shipping charges. They came UPS.

Ok, that's all
Jack

[jackknifeh]

I forgot something. .357, you said the 320 congress stone removed steel as fast as the 120 EP stone. Did you mean that really? I'm asking because I haven't done any reprofiling with the congress stone yet. I'll keep it in mind when I do but I don't have a knife that needs it right now. Also, they have an 80 grit stone. I can't imagine what that grit would do. :eek:

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I've been using the Congress Tools moldmaster 320, 400 and 600 grit stones and love them. I've been thinking about getting harder stones. Congress Tools recommends EDM stones.

Also a couple of inquiries I made:

I asked about coarse stones for serious steel removal;
If you find the "Ruby" too hard for your application, I would suggest the trying our "Die*Star".

So, Ruby or Die*Star were the two recommendations for coarse stones.

This was the reply to a better polishing inquiry.
I can recommend our "FLEX" stones as they are resin bonded and will leave a much more polished finish. They are just slightly softer than the "MoldMaster".

Anyway, has anyone tried stones other than the moldmaster? If so, what do you think about them?

Jack

[SQSAR]

Thanks for the info Jack, , , I've been looking at the Congress website lately trying to figure what my best options might be.

[Blerv]

I have nothing to add to this thread, but...

I'm so glad that for once "Congress" isn't linked to a political rant.