PC Advice Needed

[D1omedes]

Hey guys. I'm a very honest person. I love Spyderco knives but I am no knife expert. The same can be said for computers. With my tax refund coming, I want to purchase a new desktop. Only problem is, I'm not sure where the heck to start.

I'm basically looking for a reliable, upgradeable system that can surf the web, word process and handle moderate gaming (ie. Total War). See, I have a Dell laptop that lasted for about 5 years but some circuits fried and now the image is messed up.

So far, I am really impressed by Puget Computers. After talking to one of their rep's, I was directed to this page (http://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/spirit/Intel/customize.php). The computer looks nice but I am not sure. For those of you tech-savvy, computer sages - what do you think? Any advice?

Oh, I think my budget would help. I'd like to keep the system around $1,000.00. ;)

[Donut]

Honestly, from what I've read, unless Total War is a game that came out last week, you can get a good system from a deal of the day website like "sellout woot" or something, and any system that you get a good deal on will work good.

[crm7290]

Woot always has good deals.

Why do you keeping yourself confined to a desktop? For 1000 dollars you can for sure get a laptop that will play Total War. Which total war are you trying to play? Maybe look into a Mac?

There shouldn't be any issues with a laptop as long as you dont sit with the exhaust blocked off and it sucks up air.

[jackknifeh]

I worked on computers for about 10 years so I actually know a little about this. About upgrading you really need to stay away from (or at least make some inquiries) computers like HP, IBM and major brands. I don't mean they are bad but in a lot of cases when you want to upgrade some aspects you may be limited to buying very expensive parts that only fit in that PC. My wife wanted to upgrade her Compaq/HP computer a couple of years ago. We needed a system board to start with. I wanted to keep her hard drives, memory, CD, DVD drives and stuff like that. A system board would cost $300 because it had to fit in the case she had. A simple thing like the screw holes in the system board did not line up with the case of her computer. What I ended up doing was buying a new case and any parts I needed to get her a better PC. What she has now can be upgraded at a much lower price and have more choices. Someone mentioned laptops. I LOVE laptops but they have the same problem when it comes to upgrading later.

I was able to get my wife a new computer for between 4 and 5 hundred dollars instead of spending $300 on just a new system board. Wait, I just remembered that her original system board went bad. That is why she needed a new one. It wasn't just an upgrade she wanted. Sorry, bad memory. What I described requires more knowledge than people who never worked in the field or has computers as a hobby can do easily so my advice is get a computer from a store that will build it for you for what you want it to do. Walk in and tell them what you want and they can help you. If you do buy a major company PC I would probably recommend Dell. They always had the very best customer service for homeowner customers. We mainly worked on large company computer systems and Compaq (HP now) was the best route for reasons I'll not get into.

Good luck,
Jack

[jimnolimit]

look for sales that dell is running on gotapex.com, they are always posting some crazy deals that dell is offereing.

right now, dell is offering their vostro 230 (intel core 2 duo E7500, 3GB DDR3, 320GB hard drive, 16x DVD burner, windows 7 and 24" monitor) for $449. i recommend two upgrades: the RAM to 4GB and the video card to the 512MB NVIDEA. the price with upgrades is $574. i think this sale is over after today.

[Praxis]

look for sales that dell is running on gotapex.com, they are always posting some crazy deals that dell is offereing.

right now, dell is offering their vostro 230 (intel core 2 duo E7500, 3GB DDR3, 320GB hard drive, 16x DVD burner, windows 7 and 24" monitor) for $449. i recommend two upgrades: the RAM to 4GB and the video card to the 512MB NVIDEA. the price with upgrades is $574. i think this sale is over after today.

Another good source (http://www.newegg.com) for laptops and components by various manufacturers

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Dell and Apple are poor choices if you want to be able to upgrade. They restrict you to buying their parts and as far as I know will often pressure you to sending it to them for ANY repairs.

I have an older HP and I have replaced the hard drive and RAM on it will secondary market products with no issues. But that is really all the experience I have with Laptops, I build mostly Desktops.

No hands experience with them, but I have read and been told that Asus makes a pretty killer laptop for the money.

[gb12549]

It's a good idea to go to a website like www.cnet.com. First, you'll get reviews on products and programs. Second, you can get downloads of software that are professionally and user rated that are categorizes by free, free to try or pay outright.

[TeddyBallGame]

Please check out this link to Best Buy. Based upon what you said I went out and cross referenced several options for you from several vendors. I am a Signal Corps Officer in the Army and computers, communications etc are right up my alley. This computer offers a great total package (Tower, Screen, Printer etc) and at $799. Some of the great aspects to it are:

- 1TB Hard Drive (huge storage capacity and will last you years, good luck filling it up!)
- Intel Core 2300 processor is very fast for multiple computations, surfing and gaming-
- HD 2000 graphics accelerator card complimenting the above processor (gaming plus!)
- The HD graphics card will allow you to link up High Def Television to the screen as well
- 6GB DDR2 RAM memory which makes page transition and surfing/gaming very smooth
- 23" widescreen LCD screen with 3 input ports so you can watch TV, run movies etc

The reason I would go with Best Buy is they have several options available to you for coverage and protection aimed at helping those who aren't comfortable working on computers-- and again, this is a good price in comparison to about seven other vendors I checked out.


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+DX4850-27EU+Desktop%2C+23%22+LCD+Monitor+%26+3-in-1+Printer+Package/9999151200050004.p?id=pcmprd151200050004&skuId=9999151200050004

I hope this helps you out. I really think that this will be a good overall system. If you are not in the market for a total package then I think you can get this tower alone for about $449. Dont hesitate to email or contact me and I will be more than happy to help you out with a new computer purchase.

-- TBG

[Blerv]

We were stuck in the laptop cycle for years. My wife needs an intense computer for 3D rendering software, photoshop, and the other programs she runs at once.

We decided to keep basic laptops for portability but put the money into a custom PC/tower. We had it built by a local company (Computer Sonics) and stat-wise it rivals top tier Alienware for $1700 (minus the water cooling). We figure as things break or become antiquated we will just upgrade the PC instead of starting fresh with a new laptop.

Compared to even her impressive Asus laptop (only 6 months old) the PC i7 blows it out of the water. There is no comparison performance wise and it runs very cool.

The best part about going custom is it didn't come with half the trash programs that a factory boxed PC has. It's even set up with twin 1tb hard drives in RAID format so if one crashes we shouldnt lose our data.

I would think for give/take $1,000 you could end up with a killer gaming platform with your preference on hardware opposed to things bundled. Goodluck!


PS: For packaged systems I'm an Asus fan. They have quality hardware and don't come with much junk software. I know there are horror stories with all brands but I've seen my wife beat her two Asus laptops relentlessly (24 hour 3ds max rendering, etc). They consistently even beat Apple which says a ton since we all know those guys make great stuff.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/rescuecom-computer-reliability-applecare-support,11198.html

[Evil D]

Personally, i'll never buy a complete PC from any manufacturer again unless it's an Alienware or Falcon Northwest. My reason is that every one of them has fallen apart and failed one part at a time on me. The last one i bought was a 6 month old Gateway from a friend...it was a $1500 system and i got it for $500 so i couldn't pass it up, and the only thing that's left from it is the CPU (Intel), memory and monitor. Literally everything else from the motherboard to the CPU heat sink, the power supply, cdrom, and even the power button on the case itself has croaked on me and it did so within a year of buying it.

When i got my first PC i learned as much as i could about how they went together and how they were built. I'm no expert but i know enough to build my own, and if you go on sites like Newegg, you can build a serious gaming machine for what you'll spend at Best Buy for a typical PC...you might spend a little more depending on what you want but you'll get better parts and more for your money if you do it yourself.

[jimnolimit]

the computer im using now i put together, but me and my family have had only good experiences with dell throughout the years.

[Jackson]

My honest advice:

Computer are so inexpensive these days, it's easy to get plenty of power for around $500.

When you consider that most desktops will go 3-5 years before they are outdated it hardly seems worth it to drop $1200 on a computer with the idea that in a few years you will sink another $300-$500 into it. That's because in 5 years the technology is going to be so advanced you could simply buy a brand new $500 computer and it will be faster than your upgraded $1200 one.

I've done the whole computer modding and upgrading thing, and while it is fun, it's just a money pit. (nothing against guys into computers, I'm just too poor to play that game these days)

[dialex]

My honest advice:

...That's because in 5 years the technology is going to be so advanced you could simply buy a brand new $500 computer and it will be faster than your upgraded $1200 one.

I've done the whole computer modding and upgrading thing, and while it is fun, it's just a money pit. (nothing against guys into computers, I'm just too poor to play that game these days)

My thoughts, exactly.

[Evil D]

I definitely agree...upgrading is a waste of cash in most cases. The only times this isn't true is if you buy "ahead of the curve" and get the nastiest stuff on the market, but you skimped on a graphics card or something and you're still good with your CPU but you could use a higher end graphics card. Most times it's money well spent to just start over with a brand new build or complete PC. It also helps if you're not obsessed with having the latest and greatest...if you're ok with being a little behind in the times, you can get your parts/PC cheaper and it'll still be new and much faster to you.

My PC builds generally follow gaming trends...the last time i built something was when Oblivion hit the scene and was one of the higher demanding games on the market. I'm pretty far behind now and i'm due to build something new.

[Jackson]

I definitely agree...upgrading is a waste of cash in most cases. The only times this isn't true is if you buy "ahead of the curve" and get the nastiest stuff on the market, but you skimped on a graphics card or something and you're still good with your CPU but you could use a higher end graphics card. Most times it's money well spent to just start over with a brand new build or complete PC. It also helps if you're not obsessed with having the latest and greatest...if you're ok with being a little behind in the times, you can get your parts/PC cheaper and it'll still be new and much faster to you.

My PC builds generally follow gaming trends...the last time i built something was when Oblivion hit the scene and was one of the higher demanding games on the market. I'm pretty far behind now and i'm due to build something new.

Yeah, you could stretch a high end desktop for many years (even a moderate system).

I have a 5-7 year old rig running XP. I use it as a file server but it does email, web browsing, microsoft office etc just fine - all the basic stuff people tend to do.

So I guess it all comes down to your budget, intended use and preferences.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

When I built my system I bought ahead...bought a top of the line quad core processor 6gigs of DDR3 RAM...things like that. Now, about 5 years later...I have bumped up to 8g Ram and have spent a few bucks on a better heat sink and overclocked everything. It runs easily as fast as most systems currently available and yes will burn out with the overclocks in place, but to get 7 years or so out of a $1700 system that gets used pretty much 24/7 isn't such a bad deal IMO.

[Blerv]

I guess it depends on what you need to do with it.

With laptops your options are slim and even buying high-end leaves you with marginal equipment over time with more of a chance to have to trash can it.

If you always go "latest and greatest" it can be a serious money pit. If you upgrade on a "needed" basis technology will meet budget on a rational scale.

My point is that somewhere along the curve, performance return diminish as cost increases exponentially. Getting that last 20% of speed and memory costs 200%+ more money!

I don't competitively game and perhaps if I did my opinion of spending $4000+ on a PC would be different. I prefer to turn down the graphics/clipping planes for performance. Extravagant particle effects are overrated. =)

[D1omedes]

Whew, that's a lot to read!

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I must admit - I'm still a bit confused.

First, I'm DONE with laptops. I no longer need the portability factor and prefer greater bang-for-my-buck that desktops offer.

With that said, I assume that most of you do NOT recommend a custom desktop (please correct me if I'm wrong). I remember the Puget CS rep telling me that their customer service and "higher quality parts" made the price higher. I don't know how much of that is really true. When I inquired about upgrading he mentioned something to the effect that large company pc's require very specific parts which are not cheap and are more difficult to install. Again, I'm not sure how accurate that truly is.

Here's what I'm thinking. I'm willing to invest in a Dell tower. My mother has one that's over 10 years old and it still works fine as a general computer. My main conundrum now, is which model to pick and what to upgrade? I'm interested in the XPS line but am clueless about the AMD processors (seriously, does there need to be that many variants?). If someone could help guide me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

[jimnolimit]

dell is still running their deal with the vostro 230 mini tower. for $574 you will get:

intel core2 duo 2.93GHz (E7500)
4GB DDR3 RAM
320GB hard drive
512MB NVIDEA video card
16x DVD burner
24" viewsonic monitor
windows 7 (either 32bit or 64bit)

this setup should be plenty good for internet, video and mild gaming.

[Jackson]

dell is still running their deal with the vostro 230 mini tower. for $574 you will get:

intel core2 duo 2.93GHz (E7500)
4GB DDR3 RAM
320GB hard drive
512MB NVIDEA video card
16x DVD burner
24" viewsonic monitor
windows 7 (either 32bit or 64bit)

this setup should be plenty good for internet, video and mild gaming.

See something like this seems like a great deal - especially with a 24" monitor (this is exactly the kind of stuff I was talking about before). And my guess is that NVIDEA could handle more than just "mild" gaming (can probably play anything on the market - granted not necessarily completely maxed out) - 10 years ago that video card would have been faster than a top of the line desktop.

[Evil D]

There are several games on the market right now that really need 1gb grapics cards. The upcoming Elder Scrolls Skyrim is going to be INSANE, and Grand Theft Auto 4 is probably at the top of the hardware demand list right now. I know guys with hardcore gaming rigs who can't max out the settings on that one.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

dell is still running their deal with the vostro 230 mini tower. for $574 you will get:

intel core2 duo 2.93GHz (E7500)
4GB DDR3 RAM
320GB hard drive
512MB NVIDEA video card
16x DVD burner
24" viewsonic monitor
windows 7 (either 32bit or 64bit)

this setup should be plenty good for internet, video and mild gaming.

MIld gaming yes, but probably not so good for much that has come out the last year or will be coming out. Minimum I would say is quad core, and these days, I'd go with 6g Ram. The video card that I have is outdated and factory overclocked to over 1g and will only run to directx 10, and is pretty much getting maxed with newer games. So a better videocard would probably be a good idea too.

Other key things to look at, number of USB ports, Firewire connection, and number of optical drives (possibly, depending on your needs and use), and maybe a memory card reader.

Depending on the amount of data you want to store (gaming, video etc etc) you might want to go with a 2 hard drive system. One to run windows, one for storage.

[jackknifeh]

MIld gaming yes, but probably not so good for much that has come out the last year or will be coming out. Minimum I would say is quad core, and these days, I'd go with 6g Ram. The video card that I have is outdated and factory overclocked to over 1g and will only run to directx 10, and is pretty much getting maxed with newer games. So a better videocard would probably be a good idea too.

Other key things to look at, number of USB ports, Firewire connection, and number of optical drives (possibly, depending on your needs and use), and maybe a memory card reader.

Depending on the amount of data you want to store (gaming, video etc etc) you might want to go with a 2 hard drive system. One to run windows, one for storage.

Dadgum deathby, why don't you just recommend a server with dual processors and a second tower for additional hard drives? :D:D

Jack

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Ha Ha...well THAT might be a bit too much. But truthfully with modern games you need some serious power to get the most out of them. But RAM and a pretty damn good videocard aren't really expensive, so are easily bought and upgraded.

I like a dual hard drive system. Small primary drive for Windows (120gig) and a secondary drive for storage (I used 1TB). Makes it easy, insures that Windows runs nice and smooth and fast.

Course my home has my custom desktop and 2 laptops so I also have a home network set up...heh heh

[jackknifeh]

Ha Ha...well THAT might be a bit too much. But truthfully with modern games you need some serious power to get the most out of them. But RAM and a pretty damn good videocard aren't really expensive, so are easily bought and upgraded.

I like a dual hard drive system. Small primary drive for Windows (120gig) and a secondary drive for storage (I used 1TB). Makes it easy, insures that Windows runs nice and smooth and fast.

Course my home has my custom desktop and 2 laptops so I also have a home network set up...heh heh

Similar setup here. Two PCs and two game machines all connected to Inet. Got my wife a PC a couple of years ago and I use an 8 year old PC that won't run a 64 bit OS. We both have Win 7, but I have to use the 32 bit version. She plays games and needs more. We were planning on getting me a new PC but now she wants the new one and I'll get hers. :mad: That's ok really because hers is very nice and more than I need since I don't do games. She needs at least a memory upgrade and so on so... well you see where I'm going. :D I'm straying from the original subject. Sorry OP. Best of luck with your choice and I hope you have access to local help technically.

Jack

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I hear ya...I'm getting ready to make some changes to my system. New case for better air flow, might do dual vid cards. Older system now, but really is lasting quite well. Sometimes new isn't needed. basic upgrades do the trick for much cheaper!

Yes far off topic though.

Sorry bout that...back on topic. Don't skimp on RAM, Vid card and processor...storage can be easily upgraded. make sure you buy from a place with good tech support.

[Jackson]

There are several games on the market right now that really need 1gb grapics cards. The upcoming Elder Scrolls Skyrim is going to be INSANE, and Grand Theft Auto 4 is probably at the top of the hardware demand list right now. I know guys with hardcore gaming rigs who can't max out the settings on that one.

Dang. Well, that is really cool but kinda scary. My guess is that there will always be another game on the horizon that will bring the best system to it's knees. Finding a good blend of value and performance is probably still a good idea unless you are really into playing the latest and greatest games at the highest settings.


Sorry bout that...back on topic. Don't skimp on RAM, Vid card and processor...storage can be easily upgraded. make sure you buy from a place with good tech support.

I totally agree. Best bang for your buck is right there.

[D1omedes]

Sorry bout that...back on topic. Don't skimp on RAM, Vid card and processor...storage can be easily upgraded. make sure you buy from a place with good tech support.

I need recommendations, guys. :)

[jackknifeh]

Here is a bit of trivia that I'm 99% sure is true but still don't quote me. I remember when Pentium processors were getting popular at different speeds. I heard that since they didn't have the technology to make the processors at different speeds they just made the processors. Then they would test each processor to find out how fast it would process data, label and sell it as that speed. Of course the price would reflect the speed even though it didn't cost any more to make the faster ones than it did to make the slowest one off the line. I heard that from a co-worker when I was working on computers and he also had computers as a hobby and was always overclocking his equipment just for fun and to see how fast it would run before blowing up. I think he now works for a knife company that likes to stab car doors to test their knives. :D:D

Jack

[Blerv]

Bingo!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/211074/the_tech_brands_you_can_trust.html.

[Owl45]

I've been fairly happy with Dell. At one time I couldn't stand them, but my last 2 systems have been Dells and I've been overall pleased.
My current system (about 2 1/2 years old) is a Dell 630, 2-500gb Raid drives, ATI Crossfire vid card.
Will run pretty much any game you like.
Got the liquid cool option and it's the quietest desktop I've ever had...totally silent, which is a pleasure. First time I ever tried liquid cooling and didnt realize what a huge difference it made.
Total price in 09 was ~1800, rather over your budget.
Dell offers good warrantys, but their support seems a bit of a roller coaster, going from supurb to poor and back to supurb, which is troubling.

Laptops - I would look at Dells, but really try for an Alienware...gonna cost more, but very good systems.

There is a local vender (Atlanta) who sells nationwide, Vision Computers. Good folks with a great rep locally. Build everything from budget to high end systems.

In your case, you best bet could be asking around and finding someone reliable locally who builds systems. You tend to get the best bang for the buck that way, and can get exactly what you want.

As to upgradeability - it has always sounded like a good idea, but in 20+ years doing this stuff I've almost never actually upgraded a system, nor have any of my more techie friends. There is the occassional hd upgrade, or video card, but the truth is by the time most folks really need to upgrade, the cost of upgrading several components to an outdated system makes little sense and a whole new system is more economical.

[Evil D]

Dang. Well, that is really cool but kinda scary. My guess is that there will always be another game on the horizon that will bring the best system to it's knees. Finding a good blend of value and performance is probably still a good idea unless you are really into playing the latest and greatest games at the highest settings.


True...it's the nature of technology that as soon as you buy it, it becomes obsolete. This is why when i buy something PC related, i generally wait until it's already out dated and i can buy it cheaper...and in the long run everything i build is still new/fast to me, and because i buy it cheaper i can afford to upgrade as i go along and/or build another system altogether if i get too far behind the curve. I'm usually a latecomer when it comes to playing the newest games, but i don't get into online gaming or hype so i can deal with the wait.

Some games though, are just too tempting to hold out on...like the new Elder Scrolls game...i'm already scrambling to build something for when that game gets here.

[Padawan]

Maybe look into a Mac?.

This is definitely what I'd suggest. For right around $1000 you can get an Apple certified refurbished 21.5" Core i3 iMac from the Apple store. It will be extremely reliable, can handle all of the tasks you outlined, should serve you well for quite a long time, and (of course) runs Mac OS X. You get a 21.5" LED backlit display, 3.06 GHz Core i3, 500 GB hard drive, and 4 GB of RAM, plus some nice items like the wireless keyboard and mouse, iSight camera, etc. You can even install and dual-boot Windows if you decide you want to at some point.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac?mco=MTkyMTQ3ODE

[Donut]

Bump, I think the computer on woot.com today fits your needs well. I don't know a bunch about the video card, but at the least you could buy a $200-300 video card and still be in your budget.

[lamarrk]

I need recommendations, guys. :)

I'm a Network Admin on the Server Team at a large hospital. Worked my way up from PC Tech and have been building computers since 1990.

The one you're looking at from Puget is way overpriced . Their add-ons are overpriced, too.

Check out the TigerDirect SysteMax computers. They're custom built using standard parts.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=i7+systemax

Computer #2 is the one I'm planning on getting.

There's already been a lot of good advice given here, especially about the name brand computers being extremely hard to upgrade. I'd never get one except as a last resort.