Need to get something straight.

[Piercieve]

Let me get this right. Unless I am military or law enforcement or fire-fighter... I cannot own an auto anywhere in the US? My states laws seem pretty lax on knives, this is why I'm confused... Is this a straight up federal, nationwide law?

[TazKristi]

You might be interested in reading this thread...

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33326

[Piercieve]

Okay, so since you're based in Colorado, it is illegal to sell these to any other states unless the dealer is only selling to LEOs.
It would be pretty simple to work out a loophole here, If that ^ is the case... unless you guys are playing nice and simply complying. :)

PS- sorry if I'm still being ignorant, I read through as much as my ADD allowed and then I speedread.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,

It would be pretty simple to work out a loophole here, If that ^ is the case... unless you guys are playing nice and simply complying. :)

Spyderco is not playing nice and simply complying. They are following both the letter and spirit of the existing laws and staying within their confines, thereby hopefully keeping both themselves and the occasional overzealous ELU out of trouble.

I might mention that it is probably a bad idea to discuss potential attempted circumvention of the law on an open public forum, but what do I know... :rolleyes:

--------
Hannibal

[Sam Vimes]

Look on the bright side, I am in the military and I'll still never get my hands on one.:(

[The Deacon]

The Federal law concerning automatic knives were passed in the mid 1950's. However, for the first 50 or so years that it was on the books, enforcement of it was the responsibility of an agency that took absolutely no interest in doing so. I suppose if a shipload of cheap automatics had run aground on a US beach, they "might" have taken some action, but don't think that ever happened.

That situation changed a couple years back, when enforcement became the responsibility of ICE. These folks appear, at least in certain parts of the country, to have made a decision to enforce, and in the case of balisongs to "creatively interpret", those laws.

Technically, where automatics are concerned, it has been against Federal law since the late 1950's to sell one to anyone execpt an LEO, active duty member of the armed forces, or one armed person, with the sole exception that, if "Company A" was located in "State X", and the laws of "State X" allowed private citizens to own automatic knives, then an automatic manufactured by "Company A" in "State X", could be sold to private citizens of "State X". While it's pretty obvious that has not been enforced yet against any company other than Spyderco, there is no guarantee that it will not be so enforced today or in the future.

There is also no guarantee that ICE will not decide to prosecute not only the seller, but the buyer. So, as the good doctor and others have pointed out before, discussions related to circumvention of the law could have serious negative consequences for the poster, for the dealer or individual he claims sold him the knife, and for Spyderco.

[JBE]

I'm a NREMT-B... so i think that may put me in the "grey" area as far as autos

-Clock

Unfortunately, being an EMT does not allow you to legally purchase/own said autos according to Federal law. I was unsure myself, but if you read the Federal laws regarding autos we are not included as any group that is allowed to own or purchase these types of knives. I'm hoping that someday someone will actually be able to give me a definitive answer one way or the other because at one time some dealers made these knives available to firefighters and medics as well.

[pcmike]

What about CCW holders where the state says you're allowed to carry automatic knives as long as they are concealed?

[cyd8187]

Helloooo All, This Is Texas Penal Code..
PROHIBITED WEAPON, Meaning Unlawful to Own, Or Possess..
Hope this Helps
This is Federal law as well.. Check with "ATF"

(Alcohol-Tobacco-Firearms) laws concerning Automatic knifes.....

Definition of Switchblade:
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a
blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and
that:
(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a
button or other device located on the handle; or
(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or
sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal
force.


§ 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official
duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law
enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the
National Firearms Act, as amended.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the actor's conduct:
(1) was incidental to dealing with a switchblade
knife, springblade knife, or short-barrel firearm solely as an
antique or curio; or
(2) was incidental to dealing with armor-piercing
ammunition solely for the purpose of making the ammunition
available to an organization, agency, or institution listed in
Subsection (b).
(e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree unless it is committed under Subsection (a)(5) or (a)(6), in
which event, it is a Class A misdemeanor.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section for
the possession of a chemical dispensing device that the actor is a
security officer and has received training on the use of the
chemical dispensing device by a training program that is:
(1) provided by the Commission on Law Enforcement
Officer Standards and Education; or
(2) approved for the purposes described by this
subsection by the Texas Private Security Board of the Department of
Public Safety.
(g) In Subsection (f), "security officer" means a
commissioned security officer as defined by Section 1702.002,
Occupations Code, or a noncommissioned security officer registered
under Section 1702.221, Occupations Code.

[butch]

funny how my state of employment dictates what i can carry and what i can not (im a marine)

my CCW permit will allow me to carry a loaded fire arm but cant carry a knife (leas an auto or ballie ) really i done care about autos and ballies/ butterfly knives are at the most fun to toy with
i dont need nor would i carry ether, but a small fly would be fun to play with at the house
:confused:

[stoneman]

ballies/ butterfly knives are at the most fun to toy with
i dont need nor would i carry ether, but a small fly would be fun to play with at the house
:confused:

that's the worst part about this whole thing. Sure there are some people who edc their balis, but for the most part (in my humble opinion of course)they are in demand for flipping/playing with. From what I hear/read they are far more sought after for their fun factor than for use as a weapon or tool.

[Lord vader]

I know that where i live i can carry an auto legally.

[lamarrk]

that's the worst part about this whole thing. Sure there are some people who edc their balis, but for the most part (in my humble opinion of course)they are in demand for flipping/playing with. From what I hear/read they are far more sought after for their fun factor than for use as a weapon or tool.

My uncle gave me a butterfly knife when I was very young (l1960-61). I only had it for a year or so before it was stolen from me. I've never missed it and never got the urge to get another.
If I did get one, it only be to play with it.

Lamarr

[Netsquash]

Let me get this right. Unless I am military or law enforcement or fire-fighter... I cannot own an auto anywhere in the US? My states laws seem pretty lax on knives, this is why I'm confused... Is this a straight up federal, nationwide law?

You are in luck! All you need to do is remove just one of your arms. JUST ONE! And you will be allowed to get one of these restricted models!

I'm halfway done and soon hope to be the proud owner of an auto :P

(Kidding, obviously)


I have no need for an auto, nor would I ever want one. They just don't attract me at all, even if I only had one arm.

[Simple Man]

Yeah Netsquash, but that would still only get you a 3" or less blade, so it may not be worth it...... :rolleyes:

[v8r]

The most civil thing to do would be contact your congressman, if it bothers you that much, and talk with him. I have to admit the Kershaw speed safe knives seem like the same thing to me, just executed differently.I can open pretty much all my spydies as fast or faster than most autos or "assisted opening" knives by flicking them open with my thumb.;)I can do this with one arm too.

[usmc1371]

I edc an auto bench made every day, In oregon if you can see over the counter you can buy an auto and carry away. BM's are made in oregon so this may be part of the reason its leagle.
So does this mean that if I leave Oregon with my auto in my pocked there is a 99% chance I am breaking the law? Does it help or matter that I am a Marine?

I don't see the big deal with auto's, I can deploy my endura or axis lock BM just as fast if not faster.

[Superfuzz]

AD military can only carry/use Auto's on installation, in the performance of their duties, or while deloyed...in my experience. I was issued an Benchmade Auto a couple years ago and only actually carried it when I first got it. Now it sits in a drawer as it is just not as useful as some other blades.

[Rob72]

Unfortunately, being an EMT does not allow you to legally purchase/own said autos according to Federal law. I was unsure myself, but if you read the Federal laws regarding autos we are not included as any group that is allowed to own or purchase these types of knives. I'm hoping that someday someone will actually be able to give me a definitive answer one way or the other because at one time some dealers made these knives available to firefighters and medics as well.

Your State AG is the one to answer that, as the decision falls between the Mil/Public Service ruling and the ADA(Americans with Disabilities Act), which mandates that persons unable to utilize tools requiring two hands may use "enabled" tools. If the hiring agency, through State AG, says that you may use autos in the performance of duty, the Fed can get packed. They(Fed agents) could "impound" you knife, but you could not be charged, as you were acting in accordance with State law as a representative of the State (even if you are "private" EMS, as you are working Public Service). IANAL, but this was the direction received from two seperate State EMS Directors.

[docwatson]

In the state of Kentucky, the law is if you have a CCDW permit, you can purchase and carry and auto.:)

[Simple Man]

True, w/ CCDW permit we can purchase and carry, but that still doesn't mean Spyderco can sell them lawfully.

[docwatson]

Maybe I am confused, Spyderco can sell to a dealer in my state and he in turn can sell to me, just like Benchmade or any one else.

[Simple Man]

Nope, keep reading, especially the bold sections.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33326

Unique Colorado ruling.

[docwatson]

Thanks for pointing that out, guess I will rely on my LE status then. That ruling is typical for the 10th district as they have the reputation for being out of step with common sense and the rest of the districts amongst attorneys that I know.

[BillyJack]

Hey guys. This is my first post in the forum. I am an LEO in Michigan. I have owned automatic knives and folding knives, and I am experienced in how to use them. I like Auto's, but if you get a well made manual folder, you can get it opened just as fast as any Auto. And you will save yourself some money. Also there is less to go wrong with manuals, compared to Auto's. Auto's do tend to weigh more, and they are thicker.