Your thoughts on guns.

[skcusloa]

I don't want this to turn into a thread with mile long posts. I want it to be more of a poll. Please limit your posts to under a paragraph.

[vampyrewolf]

Been shooting since I was about 8-9, farm communities are great.
Personally I don't see the need for more than 5 rounds in a rifle(not that I don't have more in my semi auto .22lr). If you can't hit it and kill it with 1 shot you shouldn't be pulling the trigger.

Growing up how I did(spent weekends and holidays out there, weekdays here in the city) has some effect on my opinions. Most of the cars and trucks out in the farm areas have at least a 12 gauge for coyote & raccoon or to finish off roadkill. Would a .45 pistol be easier to use on wildlife? probably, but a load of 00 buskshot usually does it.

[Burrellb]

Your options should be widened, to every law abiding citizen carry, instead of everyone.

[chucklehead]

not nearly enough poll answer choices
10 diff choices sound about right to me.

steyr s9 BTW

[Simon G]

A firearm is a firearm, period! I can't stand this argument that some guns are bad, some are good. It's the person holding a firearm dictates the level of risk, if they are responsible with one type then no doubt they will be responsible with all types.

Non locking folders are safer for everyone, it deters people from using them against others. No-one really has a need for a locking folder, they just need a different tool. Only the police/military need locking folders.............................see how it just sounds as stupid when applied to other objects?!!

[jaxon]

Love 'em. :) Got lots of 'em. :D

Jaxon

[skcusloa]

I apologize for not adding more options. So lets just assume options 3 and 4 are for the law abiding citizens.

[OutofGum]

Well out and around in the city, I think only law enforcement should have them. Out of the city, definitely rifle/shotgun for hunting. And in the home everyone should have something.

[DILATEDPEOPLES]

its not about guns or knives, its about the government TELLING you what you can or cant do. ITs your right to make a choice.

[Senate]

I choose the 4th one: "Only target and hunting guns should be sold. Assault rifles and pistols are for gangsters"
because it's the closest from my opinion but I want to precise something. I'm not against people having gun (I practice shooting since I'm 14), I'm just not in favor of people having access to any kind of gun (at least in my country:)). Assault rifles and Machine guns might be fun to shoot but when I don't want to see them in everybody's hands (I"m not attacking anybody don't flame me;))

In France fire weapons are classified in 3 main categories, mostly based on their gauge:
-Hunting weapons
-Defense/Sport weapons
-War weapons
these 3 categories are accessible to the public but of course paperwork and verification grow bigger with the importance of the category. (clean record is the minimum...).

[UK KEN]

A firearm is a firearm, period! I can't stand this argument that some guns are bad, some are good. It's the person holding a firearm dictates the level of risk, if they are responsible with one type then no doubt they will be responsible with all types.

Non locking folders are safer for everyone, it deters people from using them against others. No-one really has a need for a locking folder, they just need a different tool. Only the police/military need locking folders.............................see how it just sounds as stupid when applied to other objects?!!


Whoaah! I thought you were being serious for a second mate! It would have been interesting to see the reaction to that one!

In the UK we don't have a lot of choice in the matter. Since February of 1998 virtually all handguns have been outlawed. The ban was introduced following the killing of 16 children and one teacher in Dunblane.

Alun Michael, the Home Office minister at the time said "By prohibiting handguns there will be fewer legally held weapons at risk of theft and being used in crime." I'd like to have him explain why there are many more crimes today involving the use of firearms! The ban did not work!

One of the parents wrote at the time "It is time to turn the tide against gun culture. Hand-guns were designed for one purpose only -to kill. They weren't banned after Hungerford because of the pressure of the gun lobby. Public safety was sacrificed to preserve a privilege for a minority who have had a disproportionate influence on our law-makers. Campaigning for a total ban on hand-guns will ensure that this country becomes a safer place."

Without over simplifying the situation the crimnals are the only members of the public who have access to and use guns.

Ken :mad:

[Tbirdjoe]

None of the above!! :mad:
Every law abiding person should have the right to own any gun they want...BUT...Every community should have the right gun laws that pertain to them. NYC gun laws will not be practical here in the Adirondacks just like London's to the Highlands.

[Shiden]

Being a European I choose the first option. IMHO I do not see a need for carrying a firearm. Not at home and certainly not in the supermarket.

Shiden

[Hannibal Lecter]

I'm just not in favor of people having access to any kind of gun (at least in my country:)). Assault rifles and Machine guns might be fun to shoot but when I don't want to see them in everybody's hands (I"m not attacking anybody don't flame me;))

Hold up a moment. A few things need clarified here.

What truly by definition constitutes an "assault weapon" is a fully-automatic weapon capable of sustained rates of fire. CIVILIANS CANNOT GENERALLY OWN THESE ANYWAY, AND THEY SURE CAN'T POP DOWN TO THE CORNER GUN SHOP OR GUN SHOW AND BUY ONE!!! Everyone is trying to mislead the public into thinking that the SKS, AR-15, etc. are assault weapons. THEY ARE NOT! They are semi-automatic versions of assault weapons. The only way to own an honest "assault weapon" in the United States is to undergo a rigorous background check and then pay a $200 transfer fee over and above the cost of the gun itself. Any Class III fully automatic firearm comes with what amounts to a title that must remain with the gun at all times. This gun can then only be transferred to another individual who has paid the fee and undergone the same background check. This has been the LAW since about 1936, memory serving.

Thought some of you might want clarification of the state of affairs where gun control is concerned. I am a pistol instructor who spent ten years working for a large gun store; I have the background where this subject is concerned.


Ta,

H

[Senate]

Thanks for clarifying this H.

[spyderknut]

Hold up a moment. A few things need clarified here.

What truly by definition constitutes an "assault weapon" is a fully-automatic weapon capable of sustained rates of fire. CIVILIANS CANNOT GENERALLY OWN THESE ANYWAY, AND THEY SURE CAN'T POP DOWN TO THE CORNER GUN SHOP OR GUN SHOW AND BUY ONE!!! Everyone is trying to mislead the public into thinking that the SKS, AR-15, etc. are assault weapons. THEY ARE NOT! They are semi-automatic versions of assault weapons. The only way to own an honest "assault weapon" in the United States is to undergo a rigorous background check and then pay a $200 transfer fee over and above the cost of the gun itself. Any Class III fully automatic firearm comes with what amounts to a title that must remain with the gun at all times. This gun can then only be transferred to another individual who has paid the fee and undergone the same background check. This has been the LAW since about 1936, memory serving.

Thought some of you might want clarification of the state of affairs where gun control is concerned. I am a pistol instructor who spent ten years working for a large gun store; I have the background where this subject is concerned.


Ta,

H

Here here Hannibal!

Clinton's assault weapons ban was a joke! There is not much functional difference between a Rem 700 and a semiauto AR-15. Limiting clip capacity to 10 rounds and banning bayonnett lugs did little to change that fact.

I keep a handgun in each vehicle "just in case". If my vehicle is boken into and it is stolen, one more gun in the hands of criminals is a drop in the bucket.

I really tire of the "more civilized than thou" attitude of some of the Europeans on the forums. I was born in Europe, have family there and have lived there. Similarly, I also tire of socialist mindsets on both sides of the pond.

Back to guns, the good guys should have 'em. Lots of them!

[jsholli]

...
...
...

Without over simplifying the situation the criminals are the only members of the public who have access to and use guns.

Ken :mad:

Ditto Ken,

This has long been my opinion of 'gun control.' Things over here are certainly different than in the EU concerning the laws, though. I have been around guns my whole life; I respect them as dangerous weapons with specific uses and also as beautiful works of utilitarian art possessing tremendous value to the right collector. I own my fair share, but since finding spent lead at my feet in my local range :eek:, I've not 'played' as much as I would like---I much would rather visit my folks and go shooting down there than risk catching a stray ricochet at my range up here.

later :spyder:'knuts

[UK KEN]

Spyderknut

Speaking for myself, I have never considered myself as an individual or my fellow countrymen as more civilised than you or other Americans. I have met and communicated with a good number of you guys and most hold very similar views on knives and guns to my own. (Not necessarily acceptable to everyone but what opinions are?)

With respect, I think that it is too easy to forget that we are in different countries with very different histories and different cultures and laws as a result. Had we had a second amendment I think that we would not be as strictly regulated in the UK as we are today! It would be wonderful if we all had the rights afforded to you by your constitution but as we have not we have (generally) become complacent and tend to sit back when new laws are introduced and give in without too much of a fight!

I can only relate to present circumstances within the UK and some of Europe and say much though I personally would enjoy owning, using and carrying a firearm, for 99.99% of the time it would not be necessary. This is not to say that you shouldn’t! Trust me, If I lived over there my marriage would be in serious trouble because of the money I would spend on guns and ammo!

As a lad I used to hunt for rabbits using a Winchester style .22 rifle on my uncles farm. Even this in certain quarters (in the UK) is considered to be “too much gun” and the landowners who allow me to shoot their rabbits and other vermin prefer me to use my Webley FX 2000 air rifle! Things are that bad over here!

People and attitudes over here aren’t any more civilised or advanced……..just fundamentally different because our development as countries has been so different.

Regards, Ken

[skcusloa]

thanks for reading my first post and keeping the posts short...

[UK KEN]

thanks for reading my first post and keeping the posts short...


Sometimes a paragraph just isn't enough :D For this post, it is! :p

Ken ;)

[Milu]

The UK handgun ban with its simplistic, and imho idiotic, reasoning is the way all of Europe seems to be going and eventually the USA. Not to worry, the nanny state will look after us and protect us and stop us from playing with those dangerous bang sticks.

This study doesn't seem to get much attention. Summary here Jan 13:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_01_07.shtml

Perhaps because it doesn't show what the antis want?

[Hannibal Lecter]

Please always keep one thing in mind when discussing gun control and using LEOs to protect us. Law Enforcement is not here to protect me, you, or us; they exist to keep the peace and protect the common good. If they were charged with our safety, then they could be held liable for their failure to keep us safe, and sued justly. This is *not* their function, and they cannot keep us all safe try as they may. I have many good friends in law enforcement, and even they will tell you that if you want to be protected from harm or theft, you will have to take some responsibility for protecting yourself. Anyone who thinks that the police are here to protect them is only fooling themselves.

No disrespect to law enforcement intended or implied with this post. Again,. some of my best friends are LEOs. We have discussed issues like this and basically this is their opinion as well. They will do all they can, but they can't be everywhere all at once and all the time.

Just something else to stir things up a bit and make people think.


Ta,

H

[chucklehead]

Here here Hannibal!


acually its hear, hear (writtten in a nice & friendly way )

:D :D :D :D :D

[spyderknut]

acually its hear, hear (writtten in a nice & friendly way )

:D :D :D :D :D
OOPS. :o Thanks.

Ken, I intended no reference to you whatsoever.

[Jon_USA]

I love GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Buy them almost as frequently as I get Spydercos each year around 2 to 3 a year. Last two guns I purchased are the Smith and Wesson 1911 .45 and the SW99 Compact in .40 cal

Everyone should own a gun its a right, says so right there on that Constitution of ours look it up its NUMBER 2

[OutofGum]

This reminds me of Bowling For Columbine. Regardless of your political stance, the movie is thought provoking, and I have tried to come up with an answer to the question: Why are there so many more killings by firearm in the US than in any other 1st world nation? In total and by population.

Hannibal: It is my understanding that its a pretty easy task to turn some semi auto assault rifles into full auto (ak-47s, open bolt designed guns) - that true?

[UK KEN]

"Ken, I intended no reference to you whatsoever."

spyderknut

No problem my friend! I think from previous posts you are aware of my views unfortunately not enough of my countrymen felt the same way to make a difference! It is hard for some people in Europe to appreciate the strength of feeling in the USA where firearms are concerned (both pro and anti) having no direct involvement with your culture.

Hang on to your present rights......in the UK we didn't......now it's too late! :(

Regards, Ken

[Simon G]

...................... Had we had a second amendment I think that we would not be as strictly regulated in the UK as we are today! It would be wonderful if we all had the rights afforded to you by your constitution but as we have not we have (generally) become complacent and tend to sit back when new laws are introduced and give in without too much of a fight!.............................



Regards, Ken

Ah! but Ken, we have. It is written in the 1689 Declaration and Bill of Rights. It still exists in constitutional law and was written nearly 100 years before the 2nd Ammendment!

Prior to 1953, the carring of pistols for self defence and the general use of firearms in the UK, was common place and accepted by all. Since then, the judiciary, and in particular socialist politicians have all but erroded it through neglect, case law, ignorance and political correctness.

44 years, from 1953 until the 1997 Firearms Act was all it took to destroy a God given right, that had first been ratified in 1215 with the Magna Carta.

Me? Oh yes I still have firearms allowed through current legistaion.............more than I will admit to the wife, but not as many as I want!!!!

Regards,

Simon.

[UK KEN]

Simon

Very true, but I thought that the law only applied to Protestants for protection and then only if allowed by the law of the day? ;)

Ken

[Hannibal Lecter]

Why are there so many more killings by firearm in the US than in any other 1st world nation? In total and by population.

Short answer: selfishness. Allow me to elaborate.

Some parents don't bother to teach children anything anymore, nor to keep track of their activities.

Illustrations:
1). When I was younger, I never *dreamt* of *touching* my Dad's guns without his permission. I knew that death would be preferable than to face his wrath for such a transgression. The gun cabinet was never locked; it didn't have to be. It never crossed my mind to take one of his guns and shoot someone. I watched plenty of violence on TV and movies, but I knew the difference between fantasy and reality. Reality was, had I touched his guns, I was a dead kid. :D

2). My parents kept track of where I went, who I was with, and what I was doing. We had a mutual respect arrangement. I kept them apprised of where I was, with whom, etc., and they generally didn't give me a hard time about it. Bottom line: they took time out of their busy lives to be sure I was getting a proper start to mine.


Hannibal: It is my understanding that its a pretty easy task to turn some semi auto assault rifles into full auto (ak-47s, open bolt designed guns) - that true?

Not quite. It, in theory, can be done, if you have the proper parts, a lot of time, access to metal machining equipment, and don't mind destroying your firearm in the process. Most semi-automatic weapons are simply not designed for full-auto use; they just will not stand up to it. Relationship of parts is critical to ensure your converted firearm doesn't slam-fire or otherwise get uncontrollable. Plus, should you get caught doing something that *stupid*, the penalties are unreal; you will be in a jail for a *long* time. In short, to do it is expensive, illegal, and likely to fail in most cases. I have seen the "conversions kits" to do what you describe, and you would just not believe how complex the process is. The average guy would screw it up irrepairably in the first ten minutes.

There are toys like the "Hell-Fire" and the like that use cams and cranks, etc, to bump up the cyclic rate, but to be honest, generally you can't hit squat when using such toys.

FWIW, I have been trained as a long-range precision shooter. I have been able to pull off 1/4 MOA (1/4" center-to-center five-shot groups at 100 meters) with an off-the-shelf rifle, phenomenal optics and factory ammo. If I need to shoot you and you are 500M away, a fully-automatic weapon is just dumb luck if I fire 1000 rounds at you and actually hit you once - maximum effective range is generally about 200M for such rifles, max. If I use a precision, single shot bolt-action rifle, all I will require is one shot; group size at 500M for a 1/4 MOA rifle will be about 1.25 inches center-to-center, which will damn near let me put the round into your eye socket at that range. It is not the caliber of the gun, it is the caliber of the man behind it.

I have owned the semi-auto "assault rifles" everyone worries about and discovered something fundamental about them; generally speaking, they suck. Remember that most "military" rifles were made by the lowest bidder. They are also generally wildly inaccurate, especially with surplus ammo.

Don't worry about the guys with the converted semi-autos; they will eventually be stupid enough to test-fire them, and the law will descend upon them in short order. Either that or their own stupidity will cull them out of the gene pool in a firearms-related accident.

Don't buy into the B.S. and rhetoric the media tries to feed you about this subject. After ten years working in the business, I have owned or fired about every kind of firearm you can imagine, and have just about seen it all. I am a very opinionated b*stard concerning firearms, as might be imagined, but I feel that I have the experience to back it up. If you have any questions I can help with or you require more clarification, feel free to contact me offline via e-mail lest our discussion get on someone's nerves on what is in truth and essence a knife forum.

I'll shut up now. :D


Ta,

H

[UK KEN]

H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ;)

Ken :D

[Hannibal Lecter]

H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ;)

Ken :D

To be honest, I really don't know. You can't legally get a carry permit, as those are limited to residents. I don't know that you can carry openly, and I don't know what laws are pertaining to hunting regulations, though I assume if they will sell you a hunting license, you can legally hunt with a borrowed firearm. I imagine you should be fine at any prescribed shooting range with borrowed firearms, especially if you are with a US citizen. Borrowing firearms for legal pursuits should not be a big deal as long as you only pursue legal activities.


Ta,

H

[mystillwater]

i'm an american gun owner. i believe in the right i have to keep and bear arms. i like shooting and would certainly protect my family if forced to.

BUT

i would gladly give up my guns if my doing so could prevent violent crime. life is the most important thing we've got.

[spyderknut]

H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ;)

Ken :D
I think it depends on the state. Then if you want to travel between states it gets even trickier for you. Do you have travel plans,Ken? I'm sure your friend you plan to borrow from could inform you of his state laws regarding alien carry :eek: :D .

[spyderknut]

i'm an american gun owner. i believe in the right i have to keep and bear arms. i like shooting and would certainly protect my family if forced to.

BUT

i would gladly give up my guns if my doing so could prevent violent crime. life is the most important thing we've got.

Show me a country whose citizens have to right to bear arms that has no violent crime. This country bears a burden of innocent lives lost in accidents and crimes of passion. It is my responibility to prevent such tragedy from occurring to my own flesh and blood..

[CutEngineer]

For the past eight years, I have held a concealed handgun license in my state. I don't always carry, but I am armed a significant portion of the time.

In all that time, I have driven past countless convenience stores, and I have never, not even once, had the slightest urge to stop by and rob them at gunpoint.

Likewise, I had a slight fender bender a couple of years ago. It was my fault and I was armed. There was no gun fight. No threat was made of any violence. In fact, as far as unpleasant situations go, it was very civil.

From those choices? The third one.


H L

Well put Sir! Not wishing to deviate too much from this thread.......but.....could you let me know a little about the rules regarding visitors to your country? Particularly relating to using borrowed weapons! ;)

Ken :D

It depends on what state you're in and where you want to borrow a weapon and what you want to do with it. Many shooting ranges in Texas will loan or rent you a handgun if you just want to shoot.

[Simon G]

Simon

Very true, but I thought that the law only applied to Protestants for protection and then only if allowed by the law of the day? ;)

Ken

Papists (Catholics), were already armed and Protestants had been disarmed. This was to bring one section of society on a level footing as opposed to disadvantaging all of society.

"As allowed by law", is a reaffirmation that the right to armed defence was intrinsic to English Common Law, which in itself had been laid down since the end of Roman occupation in the 5th century AD in the Magna Carta, Arbroath Agreement, Winchester Agreement etc. The Bill of Rights also stated, any repeal/surrendering of the rights stated is illegal!!

Ken, I have rented handguns on US ranges/clubs many times. No problems there. In fact, I have always been welcomed and never had a bad experience, Granted these were in "gun friendly" states, Florida, Vermont and New Hampshire. Taking your own guns, especially rifles and shotguns, is also fairly simple. Your own licence acts as import/export docs from the UK and your outfitter/friends can sort appropriate hunting permits before you leave. You will get most difficulty from your airline. They seem to cahnge policy on a daily basis regardless of individual country/international carriage laws.

I believe the carrying of firearms for defence by non-residents is illegal in all states. However, as individual states own laws vary considerably, always check all aspects prior to travel. State government have always been helpfull.

No handgun to carry?.......................which Spydie?!!!!

regards,

Simon.

[UK KEN]

Hello All

Thanks for the info, as usual a wealth of information :)

Ken

[hannes w]

in a perfect world...

full autos for leo & military only

rifles & shotguns for law abiding citizens + registration of ownership

small arms for law abiding citizens + registration of ownership
+ extra carry permit if you want to toot it around

+ clear rules for storage of arms and ammo to prevent accidents
+ regular checks to keep your status as responsible gun-owner

IMHO

Hannes W

[OutofGum]

Thanks for the clarification Hannibal. Very educational.

When I was considering the dangers of full autos I wasn't thinking of one small moving target at 500M, I was thinking of many large moving targets at ~50M or less. I remember a few years ago there were some bank robbers (or madmen) who went on a rampage in town. They wore full body armor (and I'm not talking just kevlar) and had fully automatic ak-47s. They fired over 1000 rounds in a few minutes, injured and may have killed some people, and I think there was a documentary made about it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[UK KEN]

I think it depends on the state. Then if you want to travel between states it gets even trickier for you. Do you have travel plans,Ken? I'm sure your friend you plan to borrow from could inform you of his state laws regarding alien carry :eek: :D .

spyderknut

My travel plans have yet to be finalised.......as no one has invited me over yet!!!!! :o I live in hope! :D

Thanks for the advise anyway.

Simon

As informative as ever, thank you. As for which Spydie....I'm a bit busy today so can't dedicate enough time to your question to give a decisive answer. ;)

Ken

[224477]

allthough i do not posses any gun, i think they could be for everyone.
the state system should find another way how to prosecute missuse of guns, not to give them all away from people.
crime is never commited with a legal gun, but mostly with an illegal one =
it does not depend whether the gun is sold legally or not, if i want to shot someone or rob a bank i will not use a registered gun.

in u.s. you are prohibited to carry knives bigger then 3 inch of blade, why?
you can carry guns, but cannot carry more then 10 pieces ammo loaded inside the magazine - does this make any sense, i can take 3x10 magazine or one 30 round magazine? i have 30 bullets, so or so. but my blade must be shorter than 3 inch.

i am not certain to be true about these things, also take it not serious, and make it clear to me, if i am not true.

[voxnaes]

I choose the 4th one: "Only target and hunting guns should be sold. Assault rifles and pistols are for gangsters"
because it's the closest from my opinion but I want to precise something. I'm not against people having gun (I practice shooting since I'm 14), I'm just not in favor of people having access to any kind of gun (at least in my country:)). Assault rifles and Machine guns might be fun to shoot but when I don't want to see them in everybody's hands (I"m not attacking anybody don't flame me;))

I´m with the French guy on this ;) :D
Vox

[Hannibal Lecter]

in u.s. you are prohibited to carry knives bigger then 3 inch of blade, why?
you can carry guns, but cannot carry more then 10 pieces ammo loaded inside the magazine - does this make any sense, i can take 3x10 magazine or one 30 round magazine? i have 30 bullets, so or so. but my blade must be shorter than 3 inch.

i am not certain to be true about these things, also take it not serious, and make it clear to me, if i am not true.

Not entirely true, though I understand why you might think so. Different areas have different laws pertaining to knives; for example, the jurisdiction I live in will allow carry of any single-edged knife up to 3.5" concealed, and any length as long as it is carried openly.


Ta,

H

[Gerard Breuker]

A tool is a tool. Nothing more and nothing less. Withholding usefull tools from responsible citizens puts them at a disadvantage against those who are not and serves no purpose IMO.

[wotanson]

I think it is very important for the citizens of any "free" society to be "armed". About half of our founding fathers felt that a standing army was a bad thing, a threat to liberty. I belive that an unarmed citizenry is a citizenry open to the coersion and tyranny of ones government. I own a rifle and keep it in my home in the unlikely event I might have to defend my family and/or property from the "bad guys". It would be somewhat easy for me to obtain a permit for a handgun, I choose not to. My wife and I are expecting our first child and I wouldn't want a handgun around the house, though I would take all safety precautions. It's too much of a risk to me, my SKS is all I need I would think. UK Ken, I have several friends from Derbyshire and Cheshire who visit me in the States on a regular basis, I have taken them out to a shooting range several times, they like it very much, none of them had ever held a firearm before. They look at me funny when I tell them my Pop got me my first .22 rifle when I was 12 :D

[UK KEN]

They look at me funny when I tell them my Pop got me my first .22 rifle when I was 12 :D

I wish that I could share the same experience with my son but this will never happen for us unless we use air weapons, still very exciting for a youngster!

Regards, Ken :(

[224477]

ok, i knew that my infos were not 100%, i wrote it even in my 1st tag.

but where is the difference if i carry it concealed or not? so may i go with a 32inch katana into a bar for a drink, but cannot have my endura, which is above 3,5" inside my waistband, under the shirt? - my english is not very good, so i try to explain what i think in an easy way, hopefully you will get it.
if it should come to a fight, or even knife fight, where is the difference between concealable and nonconcealable blade?



Not entirely true, though I understand why you might think so. Different areas have different laws pertaining to knives; for example, the jurisdiction I live in will allow carry of any single-edged knife up to 3.5" concealed, and any length as long as it is carried openly.


Ta,

H

[Hannibal Lecter]

but where is the difference if i carry it concealed or not? so may i go with a 32inch katana into a bar for a drink, but cannot have my endura, which is above 3,5" inside my waistband, under the shirt?


if it should come to a fight, or even knife fight, where is the difference between concealable and nonconcealable blade?

Yes, you are correct. It sounds stupid, but you are absolutely correct.

As far as a fight, the law remains the same about how it is handled, whether or not it is self-defense.

Ta,

H

[Hannibal Lecter]

I think it is very important for the citizens of any "free" society to be "armed". About half of our founding fathers felt that a standing army was a bad thing, a threat to liberty. I believe that an unarmed citizenry is a citizenry open to the coersion and tyranny of ones' government.

I agree that "an armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject," quoted from George Washington if memory serves.


I own a rifle and keep it in my home in the unlikely event I might have to defend my family and/or property from the "bad guys".

A rifle would be my last choice. Too much penetration in most cases, making it dangerous to others in the house, neighbors, etc. I consider a 12 gauge shotgun and #00 buckshot ideal, though a handgun with Glaser Safety Slugs is an acceptable alternative. Maximize delivery of energy, minimize excessive penetration. If the projectile exits the assailant, you have lost some of its power to protect you. Generous person that I am, I want an assailant to receive every foot pound of energy my handgun can produce; to do otherwise would be rude and discourteous. :D

(Sidenote for those present who might like to quote the FBI specs concerning desirable penetration depths of various rounds and their use on soft targets: please remember that you *cannot* generally extrapolate police and government use of a particular research data set or advocation of a particular round or firearm to the civilian population at large. They have entirely different criteria for weapon and projectile selection and performance than we do. Just thought I would head this argument off at the pass. :p )


It would be somewhat easy for me to obtain a permit for a handgun, I choose not to. My wife and I are expecting our first child and I wouldn't want a handgun around the house, though I would take all safety precautions.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, especially if the requirements for obtaining one become more stringent in the future. At one time in my area, a hunters' safety card was all you needed for a permit to carry concealed; now you require an NRA-certified course certification or something equivalent.


It's too much of a risk to me, my SKS is all I need I would think.

Please see above comments again concerning rifles as a home protection tool. Take all precautions with handguns, certainly. There are handgun safes on the market that can be opened in total darkness by feel in a matter of seconds, which both secure your handgun against theft or misuse yet allow ready access for defense. Using a rifle in your home could easily cause injury to someone you had not intended, and that opens you up to all sorts of potential lawsuits. Just doing my part to try to keep my Spydie brethren (and sistren?) out of harm's way.


They look at me funny when I tell them my Pop got me my first .22 rifle when I was 12 :D

I was taught from an early age that to lay a finger on my father's firearms without him present and without his permission would result in swift and terrible punishment; it never crossed my mind. When I was old enough, he taught me how to shoot and how to safely handle firearms. My 6 year-old daughter will not touch a knife or gun without her daddy present; when she is in my opinion old enough to listen, retain, and obey safety rules unquestioningly she will be taught how to use both knives and firearms for enjoyment and defense. I see a Spyderco Cricket in her future as a first knife, and my father's .22 as a first rifle for precision shooting. :D

Please understand that I am not trying to razz you or give you a hard time; it is just that there are so many misconceptions about firearms and their most efficient use that I feel compelled to save people potential suffering. If you are more comfortable with the SKS as a home protection tool, then by all means stick with it, just please keep in mind that a 7.62x39mm FMJ projectile at over 2300fps will not be slowed a great deal by an average wall or by soft tissue, making it a grave threat to others unless you are alone in the house and have no neighbors closer than a couple of miles distant.

I could go on for days about firearms, but I'll shut up now (again). If anyone wants any questions answered offline, feel free to e-mail me privately.

---
Ta,

H

[wotanson]

Hannibal,
No I don't belive you are razzin me at all. Yes a coachgun would be more effective than a rifle for strictly SD in the home, unfortunately I don't have the scratch for that at this time, besides the argument from the missus about having another gun would be too severe. My father would have rapped that .22 around my head if he ever saw me doing something with it I shouldn't have been doing :o , and I will teach my child the same hardcore Marine Corps safety rules my Dad taught me, and the gun will be locked in the gun safe as my .22 was and my SKS is now. I like the SKS because I can shoot it at the local range, which is somewhat of an occasional fun hobby for me. I do see your point about the pistol permit, I could get one for target shooting (no way I would attempt a concealed carry, not with my temper :D ) and regardless of whether or not I actually buy a pistol, I would have that permit in case the state changes its mind :mad: Ya did give me something to think about and I thank you for the info, Rob

[Mud]

Cary Daily Use sparingly

i think every one that is law abiding has a right to carry

[ghostrider]

First
Our Constitution does not grant us any rights. Our “Creator” does.

Second

Why are there so many more killings by firearm in the US than in any other 1st world nation? In total and by population.
While the U.S. may have a higher rate of firearm killings, we are lower in Killings. That means we have a lower murder rate.

Third
We have a right to walk around carrying anything we wish (that’s the “shall not be infringed” part) as long as we aren’t harming anyone else. If someone can’t be trusted with a firearm based on past performance then that person should not be turned loose on society forcing us decent folks to deal with him/her.

Fourth
There is only one Constitutional gun law. The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. All others, being infringments, are in violation of the law.


Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it ever will remain, in the hands of the people. -- Tench Coxe in the Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
:)

[dialex]

I don't like guns (hey, I was at the artillery, they have other measurement units there ;)) but I think it's a good thing to know how to use one.

[jimbo@stn24]

Hannibal,
Very well worded and thought out posts, Thank you. I do not have the experience that you possess, but my veiws are similar, responsible, law abiding citizens are not to worry about. Punishment that is very severe for criminal use of weapons is where energy and law should be focused.

[markIVbigblock]

I have been around guns since i was 4 years old Ive been shooting since I was 6 I got my first gun a remington 870 youth 20 ga. when i turned 12 and when i turned 18 i went out and bought 3 guns I love them between me and my stepdad we have 26 i think. for those that think they can just take away our 2nd amendment right think about this if they decide they can just take away one of our rights granted to us where does it end? next thing we know freedom of speech is gone. i also am opposed to them keeping people on the fbi's terrorist watch from purchasing firearms. they have committed no crime and are law abiding citizens.they are buying the guns legally which means they are traceable and they have to go through a background check and gice their place of residence so they are easy to find. would the FBI rather them go out and buy an untraceable handgun off the street that the fbi doesnt know about? who decides whos on the list and whos not anyways what if they put me on the list ive committed no crime so y shouldnt i be able to own a firearm? im not a terrorist and i know that but they dont so how can they keep me from purchasing a firearm when their entire basis for the list is circumstantial? just my thoughs ill let it go before i get too worked up. this is one issue i am passionate about and they will pry my guns from my cold dead hands.

Aaron :spyder:

[mikewww]

We have had access to guns for years, with the exception of full-automatic weapons. But now a clampdown is in progress and most will have to hand in their weapons or apply to keep a few ( a costly and bureaucratic process).

As they say : "When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns" :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[greencobra]

This opened a crock of crap. The problem in the U.S. is the legal system. They spend too much time making excuses for the violently guilty. Because of that, I and the rest of you decent folks suffer. I don't care what anyones opinion is on the subject, in my state I'm licensed to carry concealed and I do at times. Who it offends, I could care less. I've owned guns for 35 years with no problems. Because of potential theft I have to fortress my home against it. I have a mega safe, the law says I have to put trigger locks on when it's not under my direct control. The law says I'm just as guilty if my gun is stolen and used in a violent crime. Christ it never ends. Here in Mass. we have Mass. compliant guns, nothing else can be sold unless it was made prior to, I believe 1998, with these stupid "safety" features that do nothing to stop a crime. To become Mass. compliant, it's time consuming and expensive. The hope is manufactures will not go through the procedure and hence no new handguns to be legaly sold in the state. How about parents take control and teach their children right from wrong. Mine did. I played with toy guns as a child and I didn't want to wipe out my high school. Another thing that bugs me to no end is when someone finds out you like guns and the first words out of their mouth is "good thing I don't own any, I'd shoot the ____________". Fill in the blank with wife, dog. boss etc. That's the type of people that scare me. And they are the ones screaming gun control. A true gun person is respectiful of everyone. You never hear those type of comments from them. And how about the people who really think if you put a ban on all handguns, assault weapons, whatever that is, and whatever else, that will be the end of crime as we know it. Let's get real here, a deranged, criminal mind will find another way to hurt and destroy your life. He'll hold you hostage with a spoon, OK, ban spoons. He'll hit you with a baseball bat. OK, only professional players can have bats. In my state, a world class Olympic shooter couldn't get his license renewed. The only guns he owned were two custom free pistols valued at $5,000 ea. I read somewhere that in Great Britian, the Olympic pistol team went to France to train and practice because of their homecountry's laws. A member from there could shed some truth on that if they would. Pretty sad. But who cares right, shooting isn't a real sport. Owning a few hundred knives isn't a real hobby either. Watch out, after they deal with the gun problem they'll be after you too, and me. Then, any car that can go over the speed limit. why do you want one of those. Like I said, It will never end.

Whoa, what a rant...I feel better.