Three questions.
Three questions.
1 : Was a reason given to why the Native 5 LW is so blocky and not molded thinner like a Para 3 LW is ?
2 - I read that the Native 5 LW had an improved backlock compared to a Delica 4. What makes it different ?
3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.
Thanks for the answers.
2 - I read that the Native 5 LW had an improved backlock compared to a Delica 4. What makes it different ?
3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.
Thanks for the answers.
Re: Three questions.
my guess is that the reason for thicker scales is a lack of liners. if you open the native lw, there are no liners and some ridges inside that give it structural integrity. it's impressive how strong it is for an all plastic handle.Xformer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:09 pm1 : Was a reason given to why the Native 5 LW is so blocky and not molded thinner like a Para 3 LW is ?
2 - I read that the Native 5 LW had an improved backlock compared to a Delica 4. What makes it different ?
3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.
Thanks for the answers.
as far as i know, the reason people like the backlock of the native over knives like the delica is because it's thicker. the thicker blade stock and backlock make for a more sturdy interface than what you see on a delica. this makes for a more solid feel in the lockup and less play overall.
i don't have a yojumbo and i don't really want one. i do have a yojimbo and i love it. what sealed the deal for me was watching the video mr. janich made regarding the design. it's always nice to see the designer talk about their own design and get that extra insight. i immediately wanted the yojimbo and have enjoyed carrying it. look up his video on youtube and see what he has to say if you want a better understanding of the model. the yojumbo is just a plus sized yojimbo for people with bigger hands or that need a little extra blade. personally, i find that it changes some of the aesthetic and i find it less appealing than the yojimbo, but that's very subjective.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Re: Three questions.
i just realized you asked about the native vs the para 3 lw for scale thickness... i missed that and was comparing it to the delica. i'm not sure they are actually thinner scales on the para 3, but the contouring might make it seem that way. another reason they might be thicker is to keep it the same thickness as the g10 version for continuity purposes.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Re: Three questions.
Not sure of the reasoning, but the Para 3 has chamfered edges while the Native 5 is pretty blocky. Same with the Manix.
Manix, Para 3, Native 5
I have only had the Native 5 for a month. I will say the back lock on the Native reminds me of the Chaparral. There is no lock rock. It is very solid feeling. The Chaparral as thin as it is locks up extremely tight. The Seki back locks can have some rock lock. Some are more than others and some are not even noticeable. It is a little hit or miss.
Manix, Para 3, Native 5
I have only had the Native 5 for a month. I will say the back lock on the Native reminds me of the Chaparral. There is no lock rock. It is very solid feeling. The Chaparral as thin as it is locks up extremely tight. The Seki back locks can have some rock lock. Some are more than others and some are not even noticeable. It is a little hit or miss.
- Jeff
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
- Naperville
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- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am
- Location: Illinois, USA
Re: Three questions.
@Xformer
To understand why the Yojumbo or Yojimbo are as designed, you have to understand the martial arts philosophy of Spyderco's Michael Janich.
Michael Janich has many videos that can be seen on YouTube, and more in depth DVDs can be purchased from him.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ael+Janich
Every tool, or weapon, has a unique fingerprint in the martial arts community. There are martial arts that train in general terms and some that train for specific weapons use. Most of these martial arts are descended from Filipino masters and grandmasters.
Michael Janich targets mobility and function of the attacker's limbs. I am not going to pretend that I can say much more because I have not studied with Michael Janich, but he can/may respond.
To understand why the Yojumbo or Yojimbo are as designed, you have to understand the martial arts philosophy of Spyderco's Michael Janich.
Michael Janich has many videos that can be seen on YouTube, and more in depth DVDs can be purchased from him.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ael+Janich
Every tool, or weapon, has a unique fingerprint in the martial arts community. There are martial arts that train in general terms and some that train for specific weapons use. Most of these martial arts are descended from Filipino masters and grandmasters.
Michael Janich targets mobility and function of the attacker's limbs. I am not going to pretend that I can say much more because I have not studied with Michael Janich, but he can/may respond.
I support the 2nd Amendment Organizations of GOA, NRA, FPC, SAF, and "Knife Rights"
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
T2T: https://tunnel2towers.org; Special Operations Wounded Warriors: https://sowwcharity.com/
Re: Three questions.
To the first question, I would say there is a school of thought that says blocky handles are easier to hold onto than rounded ones. Prevents the handle from twisting in your grip. Whether thats true, or thats why it's designed that way is up for debate.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
Re: Three questions.
thanks for that pic. as i suspected, they look about equal in thickness, but the rounded edges might make it seem thinner in hand.
i wonder if the difference in the backlocks is a tolerances thing. the only "issues" with backlocks i've experienced with spyderco are from the seki factory. some have a little play and feel less secure, although they've never been a problem in use at all. it's almost more like a flex that occurs around the pivot. my native salt lw has had some weird play, but it's more of a clicking into place than a wobble and it's always rock solid once it's settled in.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
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Re: Three questions.
Regarding question two, in a word, tolerances. The Golden factory holds closer manufacturing tolerances than the Seki makers.
Re: Three questions.
it fits my hand like a glove, cuts really well, is extremely easy to sharpen, its put together really well and looks awesome. I like how different it looks without being a gimmicky design, it's very functional.
Re: Three questions.
The back lock on the Native 5 and the Native Chief are more refined and lock up more solidly (and I think the notch seats a bit deeper) than the Seki back locks. I still like my Seki back locks.
I remember back in the late ‘90s or so, with the original Native, every one I inspected by hand in a knife shop all had lock rock. I’m not sure exactly when the back lock was refined at the Golden factory. I only own 3 Golden back locks; a G10 and an FRN Native 5, and my Native Chief. I’m guessing that the Golden back lock was re-engineered with the introduction of the Native 5, but I could be wrong and it could have been earlier.
Jim
I remember back in the late ‘90s or so, with the original Native, every one I inspected by hand in a knife shop all had lock rock. I’m not sure exactly when the back lock was refined at the Golden factory. I only own 3 Golden back locks; a G10 and an FRN Native 5, and my Native Chief. I’m guessing that the Golden back lock was re-engineered with the introduction of the Native 5, but I could be wrong and it could have been earlier.
Jim
Re: Three questions.
Native 5 LW : the handle is "blocky" but it's in no regard uncomfortable given a compatible hand size. The corners are rounded, just more abruptly than on a Para 3 LW.
I personnally have used one of my N5 LW for pretty hard work and it hasn't caused hotspots. I see it as the pm2 and para3 ergos. I can use these knives with some force behind the cuts for quite a long time.
That said, I have rather small hands.
I personnally have used one of my N5 LW for pretty hard work and it hasn't caused hotspots. I see it as the pm2 and para3 ergos. I can use these knives with some force behind the cuts for quite a long time.
That said, I have rather small hands.
In the collection : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives
MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives
MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
- Manifestgtr
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- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:43 pm
- Location: Lowell, MA
Re: Three questions.
“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.
It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
Crucarta: Shaman (x2), Manix 2, Lil Native, Delica, GB2 & PM2
Notable: 52100 and Cruwear Millie. “15v-arta” Shaman. REC Manix. K-carta Endura, P4, Dragonfly and Delica.
Favorites: Shaman, Sage 5 lightweight, Sheeps Caribbean, Manix, Endela and all things Stretch
Notable: 52100 and Cruwear Millie. “15v-arta” Shaman. REC Manix. K-carta Endura, P4, Dragonfly and Delica.
Favorites: Shaman, Sage 5 lightweight, Sheeps Caribbean, Manix, Endela and all things Stretch
Re: Three questions.
I think you are on to something. I obviously don't mind blocky. I use my Native 5 and Manix LW quite often. I prefer my Seki models because they do melt in my hand, but I will say my Manix and my Native don't want to roll in my hand when pushing them a little harder. It is nice to have the "different."Manifestgtr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.
It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
- Jeff
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
May your feet be warm and dry and your throat warm with whiskey. A knife in hand or in the sock band.
MNOSD Member #0005
- Manixguy@1994
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Re: Three questions.
Nothing wrong with blocky. As what has been said the handle presents a presence in your hand it’s not vague or lost . Ergonomics of a handle is purely subjective to each individual . If possible go to a shop and handle different models find your sweet spot . MG2
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
Re: Three questions.
i've heard people compare the native and manix to lego blocks. i don't think they are sharp or uncomfortable at all. they fit me perfectly, but everyone's hands are different, i suppose.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
Re: Three questions.
The Native Chief is the only folder in my collection that felt so squared off on the corners I wanted to sand them down before carrying it. Every time I buy a new Chief I handle it with the stock scales to see if I've changed my mind. Always no.
Re: Three questions.
There’s a small contingent of us that hate the Native 5 blocky handles. I sold mine almost immediately.
I don’t know if there’s a “why” for why they’re so sharp. May be mostly for aesthetic reasons.
I don’t know if there’s a “why” for why they’re so sharp. May be mostly for aesthetic reasons.
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Re: Three questions.
I do believe it is part of the design language that Sal and Eric chose for the USA made Spydercos. I like both the old and the new Native handles, but the old are far more comfortable.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
Re: Three questions.
Manifestgtr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.
It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
It's definitely not a wrong way to look at it, because going too far into contouring and rounding and you get a KA-BAR, which despite all their otherqualities make absolutely horrible choppers in part because of how round their handles are (I mean, I know they're not designed to be choppers, but the round handle makes them doubly poor at it). I think there's a sweet spot and most Spyderco's do a good job reaching a compromise. The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods. Maybe those are just not jobs that this knife was designed to do. Still, it's a fair question of why, when other similarly sized and built knives are more rounded and would be much more forgiving of long periods of use.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Three questions.
i still don't get why anyone has a problem with them. they're not sharp at all and i can't imagine ever needing to squeeze my knife hard enough for it to be a problem. if you are, you're probably using the wrong tool to begin with. it could be a little more rounded, but it's already not uncomfortable in normal pocket knife usage. i mean, it's not a competition chopper.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C
current collection:
C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C