Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

[Sharktooth]

Its not the responsibility of Spyderco to keep the lint from your pockets from interfering with the operation of your knife, its yours.

Take care of your sharp things or they will bite you.

[akaAK]

Someone once told me to always treat a folding knife as if it has no lock.

I have a lot of spyderco lockbacks and for the most part don't have regular issues with lint. It does and has happened. If I don't hear that click when the lock engages I know something is wrong and I have so far been able to deal with lint before it was a problem.

I am very impressed with spyderco by the way.

[hunterseeker5]

So I'm a bit baffled by this. A lot of forum members here are a little too quick to jump on people who have had issues with Spyders. That said, do you have an alternative hypothesis as to why the lock wasn't functioning? Did you even look?

As someone who is much more interested in the technical aspects of things than drama, I guess I'd ask what/why you think that it couldn't be lint and/or what you think caused the failure?

As an aside, while its possible you just have extraordinarily linty pants, you could just as easily have had a single large piece of lint (the type that likes to collect at the bottom of your pockets) detach and settle in front of the lock bar preventing the blade from opening all the way. Unlike something like a frame lock, which is very open and actively sweeps out debris, a lockback isn't/doesn't and compacts/holds debris.

[Evil D]

So I'm a bit baffled by this. A lot of forum members here are a little too quick to jump on people who have had issues with Spyders. That said, do you have an alternative hypothesis as to why the lock wasn't functioning? Did you even look?

As someone who is much more interested in the technical aspects of things than drama, I guess I'd ask what/why you think that it couldn't be lint and/or what you think caused the failure?

As an aside, while its possible you just have extraordinarily linty pants, you could just as easily have had a single large piece of lint (the type that likes to collect at the bottom of your pockets) detach and settle in front of the lock bar preventing the blade from opening all the way. Unlike something like a frame lock, which is very open and actively sweeps out debris, a lockback isn't/doesn't and compacts/holds debris.

I can only speak for myself, but here's my take on it. If a guy doesn't get the outcome he wants and then chooses to take it to the forum with a public complaint, then he has solicited the opinions of everyone on the matter, and nobody should ever expect everyone to agree with their opinion, especially on a subject that is almost unanimously positive (customer feedback). When that subject goes so far that people have offered solutions and/or opinions, and the OP still wants to argue because they still aren't getting the answer they WANT instead of the answer they NEED, then again they've brought it onto themselves. By the time Sal gets involved, I personally think things have gone way too **** far. I really appreciate Sal's involvement in this forum, but I think some of these issues are down right petty and he pays people to sort these issues out and I think those people do a fine job doing so and that honestly to put it bluntly this sort of thing is beneath the man who no doubt has far more important things going on in the business than dealing with one customer who didn't get the answer he wanted despite the fact that Charlynn has evaluated his knife and came to a conclusion that she no doubt has the experience and know how to come to.

The knife hasn't even made it back to the OP yet so he can see for himself that it locks properly. I don't think it's right complaining about customer service when the interaction isn't even finished. Everything surrounding this thread spells out inexperience to me.

[LC Kid]

Hi Folks!

The knife hasn't even made it back to the OP yet so he can see for himself that it locks properly. I don't think it's right complaining about customer service when the interaction isn't even finished. Everything surrounding this thread spells out inexperience to me.

You nailed it Bro.

I have had LockBacks as far as I can remember, actually my very first Spydies were a Delica and an Endura, both SS. :cool:

The lint issue do happens. And blame the Knife Company for that is just silly. :rolleyes:

Actually the only thing that I do with my knives, even more times than use and sharpen them, is clean them. Almost on a daily basis. :D

It's a very important habit, at least for me. :)

[tvenuto]

I really appreciate Sal's involvement in this forum, but I think some of these issues are down right petty and he pays people to sort these issues out and I think those people do a fine job doing so and that honestly to put it bluntly this sort of thing is beneath the man who no doubt has far more important things going on in the business than dealing with one customer who didn't get the answer he wanted despite the fact that Charlynn has evaluated his knife and came to a conclusion that she no doubt has the experience and know how to come to.

A big plus one to this.

[wolfgaze]

As an aside, while its possible you just have extraordinarily linty pants, you could just as easily have had a single large piece of lint (the type that likes to collect at the bottom of your pockets) detach and settle in front of the lock bar preventing the blade from opening all the way. Unlike something like a frame lock, which is very open and actively sweeps out debris, a lockback isn't/doesn't and compacts/holds debris.

"extraordinarily linty pants"

LOL!

:D

[sal]

Hi Evil,

The incident was a petty problem, but Suv had a strong angry reaction, which is not good for anyone to have to go through. My approach is usually, "Whatever the problem, education is the solution". I felt that his knife experience was limited and his anger towards our company, ignorant or not, was important enough to get involved.

If I'm dealing with a buttnugget, I usually just tell them to go away. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I beleive that he believed that it wasn't possible for lint to stop a lock. I had a hard time with that when I first learned about it. I agree with the poster that said "Click or inspect". His knife is going out tomorrow, lock works well, newly and professionally resharpened and I think he will figure it out. He purchased a Spyderco because he specifically wanted a Spyderco, or he would have a different brand. He was pleased with his purchase until his lock failed. I'd like to restore his confidence in our brand.

We're all students and we're all teachers.

sal

[Officer Gigglez]

Sounds to me like its a user induced error by way of lack of basic care. Regardless, the Delica is excellent, as time has proven.

[Bill1170]

I've had lint in my Delica that I carry deep in pocket, clipless. It is easy to clean out. A clipped back lock knife tends to ride above the majority of pocket lint, and have less occurrence of this problem. One habit I have is to turn my pockets inside out and remove all the lint. Machine washing won't do this for you.

[adancingmonkey]

So now I'm looking for education. If a back lock can be defeated by lowly lint what advantage does it have over a liner lock then? obviously crud in any locking mechanism isn't ideal, why just a few days someone was worried about crud in their CBBL.

[bearfacedkiller]

The backlock is ambidextrous. Some people find the closed back design more comfortable. With a backlock you do not have to place your fingers in the path of the blade when closing. Backlocks are also very strong and reliable when kept clean. None of these factors are extremely important to me but they are to some. I own and enjoy many backlocks.

[Holland]

So now I'm looking for education. If a back lock can be defeated by lowly lint what advantage does it have over a liner lock then? obviously crud in any locking mechanism isn't ideal, why just a few days someone was worried about crud in their CBBL.

Darby mentioned some good points. Personally, back locks are one of my least favourite locks, i just deal with it because lots of my favourite designs have it (chaparral, dragonfly, delica, caly series). Im not positive on this, but cost could also be a factor, back lock might be easier to manufacture. Im assuming this because the delica line is known for offering great value and they are all back lock. The tenacious line contradicts my theory however :D

[sal]

Back-locks have one of the better self close detents of all the lock designs.

sal

[Cliff Stamp]

So I'm a bit baffled by this.

It is very easy to judge someone at fault for being what we would conclude is obvious ignorance because we, the enlightened few, have the knowledge. However it is rare that the same individuals would feel that it is ok to reverse the situation upon them if they failed to be aware of what was "obvious" to others.

If you step back for a moment, just think about saying this idea to someone not into knives "Yeah, ok here is a really good knife made by a excellent company, a true high performance blade with a strong and reliable lock. But, let me make this clear, if you carry it in your pocket this can cause the lock to fail."

It isn't going to be obvious to a lot of people that the second statement is coming or to accept it as reasonable when it is said. It certainly takes the knife out of any kind of emergency type use as it implies you have to take the knife out, carefully inspect it, blow into the mechanism, etc. to ensure the lock engages. And, that if you don't and the lock collapses - well derp, you is just ignorant.

Can you make that argument, sure. Most people know enough about something which is non-trivial to make that kind of argument on the things they know to the people that don't. However, again it is rare to find the person who appreciates it being done back to them.

You know a lot about paintball guns for example. I know that they fire paint balls, that is about it. It is quite likely that if we hung out then I could do something fairly stund in regards to operation, cause problems and depending on mood, get frustrated. You could then respond "derp - obvious - derp". But I could also reverse the argument to you in many situations if I know things you don't.

In general there are more productive ways to interact with people who are simply frustrated due to non-obvious ignorance.

[tvenuto]

I'm all about metaphors to make a point, but I feel like yours is overly simplified. Cliffs example:
[Gadget] stops working, inexperienced individual expresses frustration, experienced individual talks down to him

I don't believe that's what happened.
Knife stops working, inexperienced individual sends in for warranty service, experienced employee explains that the issue is maintenance related not a physical defect, inexperienced individual calls bullshit, inexperienced individual whines about the ordeal on company forum.

To me, it seems like a majority of the people have been arguing with the OPs assertion that this can not possibly have been caused by a lock obstruction, and that spyderco is lying to him and holding his knife hostage for 5 bucks. It seems perfectly reasonable to point this out. I'm not sure, of course, how gently the employee explained the issue, but in this case the issue has already been explained. For my part, I was wondering exactly what he thought did happen. Did they fix a manufacturing defect for free and just keep it quiet to avoid embarrassment? This seems a lot less likely than lint getting in a lock somehow.

[Cliff Stamp]

[...]
To me, it seems like a majority of the people have been arguing with the OPs assertion that this can not possibly have been caused by a lock obstruction, and ...

Yes, but this doesn't really change the core of the argument that it is just a response based on condemnation for ignorance. Pick a thing you don't know much about, have something go wrong with it, bring it to someone to fix it, have them rattle off something which strikes you as odd and then charge you for your ignorance in causing the problem. Has this never really happened to you before - ever, and it never ever frustrated you when it did?

The weekend a friend of mine spent a lot of money on concrete paint for his garage after advice from a local paint shop. He tried to use it with little success. He returned to the paint shop and was very frustrated, especially when they told him that a stripper would be more money as he need to use an acid to remove the sealer, then neutralize the acid and then reapply the paint. This was all do to his problem because he didn't tell them that the concrete was sealed which he could not have because he didn't even know what that meant.

Now that is one of the things I am familiar with, he isn't. It likely would not help him if I stepped in and said "derp - you should have told the concrete finisher to not sealed the concrete - derp", probably not.

[FCM415]

Thanks Cliff for setting this forum straight.

[ChrisinHove]

Maybe it's me, but if a quality/reputable product goes wrong on me the first time I use it, I look to see if I'VE done something wrong. It invariably magnifies the frustration because as well as getting it wrong, I've messed up or wasted the product.

[adancingmonkey]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I prefer liner locks and CBBL. But only because you can flick the knives open, which I know is bad for them. Sal is certainly right about the detent on back locks. The natives snap closed with authority.