Title change:Not impressed with Spyderco Delica 4

[StuntZombie]

I'm still waiting to hear what suv44 has to say about this whole deal. I figured he would be calm enough to share some further thoughts on the matter, but perhaps not.

[Bodog]

Wait...what? Interesting. It's a two way street Sal, many (not just me) prominent members felt disrespected by Cliff in this thread and said as much. But I take it that since I kept going (Cliff did too), you latest post is more or less directed at me. Ok, it's a little clearer to me now that perhaps Cliff was right in his call to arms and has been so and always was in your opinion...Since HE isn't being told the same. Fair enough.

Moving forward I will refrain from getting involved when he gets on this witch hunt.

Hey man, I don't think anyone was saying anything negative toward specifically you. On the other hand, you are saying some pretty harsh personal things about a man who hasn't attacked you and has really only brought up things in a manner in which you don't agree. I think all that was being said was that those personal attacks need to chill out. Accept others as much as reasonably possible. There's a long history of Cliff doing experiments and posting those results for everyone to see and being attacked for those findings. Look at Ed Fowler's knife review he has posted on his site. Those findings absolutely fly in the face of what pretty much everyone else found. Are his results invalid because no one else found the same results? Well, that's for us as individuals to measure. I think he's trying his best to keep an open and fair place for discussion. Is there anything wrong with that? Not at all. Was he pushing it a little far in this thread? Maybe, to me no, to you obviously yes. So ask yourself, were his motives bad? Of course not. Was his presentation the best it could've been? Maybe not. We're all imperfect though and we should strive to judge people on the merits of what they're trying to accomplish regardless of our own deep seated opinions and emotions that may cause us to view things differently than them. Respectfully, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? All I've really read is that you have a personal beef with cliff stamp and I've not seen him attack you at all.

The point of all that is to say that no one is attacking you. Goosefraba. It's Christmas time, man.

[araneae]

I'm still waiting to hear what suv44 has to say about this whole deal. I figured he would be calm enough to share some further thoughts on the matter, but perhaps not.

This thread probably scared him off. Likely that he is somewhere happily using his now fully functional Spyderco and is a bit wiser from the experience.

At the end of the day there are several of us that would do better to check our egos at the door and remember that we are talking about knives. Just knives- and there should be no cause for inflamed tempers, bruised egos or name calling over the subject. Cliff likes an argument. He knows a lot about steel. I have learned a fair bit from him. He also, at times, uses incorrect grammar. And you know what? When I am tired of him, I can just close the page and move on. Same goes for anyone else here. Think twice before you post, are you advancing the discussion and furthering knowledge or are you advancing a personal agenda? Sal keeps a pretty good house and we should all aim to be worthy to sit in his living room and have a chat. It is just knives, but knives are a lot of fun to talk about when you have the right people in the room. Be the right people please.

[FCM415]

Hey man, I don't think anyone was saying anything negative toward specifically you. On the other hand, you are saying some pretty harsh personal things about a man who hasn't attacked you and has really only brought up things in a manner in which you don't agree. I think all that was being said was that those personal attacks need to chill out. Accept others as much as reasonably possible. There's a long history of Cliff doing experiments and posting those results for everyone to see and being attacked for those findings. Look at Ed Fowler's knife review he has posted on his site. Those findings absolutely fly in the face of what pretty much everyone else found. Are his results invalid because no one else found the same results? Well, that's for us as individuals to measure. I think he's trying his best to keep an open and fair place for discussion. Is there anything wrong with that? Not at all. Was he pushing it a little far in this thread? Maybe, to me no, to you obviously yes. So ask yourself, were his motives bad? Of course not. Was his presentation the best it could've been? Maybe not. We're all imperfect though and we should strive to judge people on the merits of what they're trying to accomplish regardless of our own deep seated opinions and emotions that may cause us to view things differently than them. Respectfully, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? All I've really read is that you have a personal beef with cliff stamp and I've not seen him attack you at all.

The point of all that is to say that no one is attacking you. Goosefraba. It's Christmas time, man.

You are 100% correct. Embarrassed. What was I thinking? I cleaned up my posts. Thanks Bodog. I was so caught up on defending the forum's members and for what?

[3rdGenRigger]

You are 100% correct. Embarrassed. What was I thinking? I cleaned up my posts. Thanks Bodog. I was so caught up on defending the forum's members and for what?

Sarcasm doesn't look good here at this point, nor does editing every post you make minutes after the fact.

I have one question. What are you "Defending" us from?

[FCM415]

You are 100% correct. Embarrassed. What was I thinking? I cleaned up my posts. Thanks Bodog. I was so caught up on defending the forum's members and for what?

Sarcasm doesn't look good here at this point, nor does editing every post you make minutes after the fact.

I have one question. What are you "Defending" us from?

I'm getting gangbanged here is Cliff gonna save me.

Meh it's a lost cause, nothing looks good. I was defending the forum from an imagined boogeyman.

[suv44]

The comments have not scared me off. With the holidays, I am kind of busy, but I will respond. I have narrowed my decision to an EDC, and will let the members know which one and why. Until that time, happy holidays and chill.

[On Edge]

Happy Holidays to you suv … hope the season brings you all the best.

~ edge

[StuntZombie]

I mentioned it to suv44 in a different thread, and it got me wondering; Could lint or debris get caught in the notch of the locking bar, rather than the blade tang? If it's possible, I could see that causing issues, and it wouldn't be readily visible unless the knife was disassembled. I don't know that I've had it happen myself, I mainly see stuff in the locking surface on the blade itself.

If the locking surfaces weren't damaged, and there was still spring tension, it seems like that could have been the culprit.

[jalcon]

It seems that you two have a history.

Yeah he copied and posted part of my thread from BF that had already been answered over there and I blasted him for it because that is one of my biggest pet peeves, cross forum posting.....

And I heard about it too.

[Bodog]

I think the changes FCM415 has made to his posts are unnecessary but quite funny. I don't know if he meant them to be funny, but after going back through the thread, I found myself laughing. For whatever it's worth, I appreciate him bringing some levity to the situation.

[Cliff Stamp]

Those findings absolutely fly in the face of what pretty much everyone else found. Are his results invalid because no one else found the same results?

That is an interesting question and it hits at the heart of how science claims to know something. The way to look at it isn't who makes a claim or how many people make a claim but what they did to justify the claim. If you look at the person you have tossed science to the side and you are looking at things how cults do - what does a particular person say, irrespective of argument.

The point that often gets over looked in these discussions is what are people using to support their arguments. Hence why one of the first questions to ask is "What is that based on?" then you look at if this actually provides sensible justification. As an aside, I don't think the knife I used from Ed is representative of his work, when I had it HRC tested it was very low which is likely why it was so easy to grind, deform, and wear.

In general I welcome someone to criticize something I said rationally, however what is done in the above are irrational ad hominem statements, they don't do anything productive and are not intended to do so either. If you abandon rational argument then it is clear you are not trying to communicate you just want to start a fight.

If you feel it was either untrue, or unjust to points out special pleading then make an argument as to why it was not true or it was not just, simply making an insult doesn't do anything productive and is intended as an anti-discussion point.

[J32A2]

The comments have not scared me off. With the holidays, I am kind of busy, but I will respond. I have narrowed my decision to an EDC, and will let the members know which one and why. Until that time, happy holidays and chill.

Check out Mantis or Quartermaster knives! I'm sure you will like them.

[FCM415]

I think the changes FCM415 has made to his posts are unnecessary but quite funny. I don't know if he meant them to be funny, but after going back through the thread, I found myself laughing. For whatever it's worth, I appreciate him bringing some levity to the situation.

Yes I'm a horrible person :)

Thread turned into a laugher so I figured I should do my part.

Suv, Im not surprised the posts didnt bother you. Merry xmas.

[bearfacedkiller]

Sweet, group hug!

[phillipsted]

I keep hearing that lint is a possibility. How many here have bought a new knife,carried it in there pocket for a few months, took it out and operated it to make sure it's ok. When the time came to use it, it failed you? I believe this is rare.You would be pissed too.

I've been carrying pocketknives on a daily basis for over 40 years. Pocket lint has gunked up the action on almost every single knife I've carried for more than a few days at a time. Its just one of those "routine maintenance" items that you need to perform on a knife after it has ridden in your pocket. Once you learn to hear and feel the symptom - a soft click versus a sharp click on locking open - you can clean it out and keep on cutting.

I don't take my car back to the dealer every time I need air in the tires. :cool:

TedP

[Cliff Stamp]

I don't take my car back to the dealer every time I need air in the tires.

The curious thing about most locks is that they all have their odd behaviors which can be very surprising when you first use them.

I used lock backs for a long time, the fact they would jam was well known and obvious to me because of the way the lock worked as lots of locks jam in that way and are not self-cleaning. The first time I used a liner lock though and had it close in use I was a bit surprised. I discovered it was closing because it was moving under the force of my hand on the lock. I could duplicate this by just squeezing the knife and the lock would relax. I thought this had to be a defect obviously. I did a little research and found it was actually a known problem with liner locks, there was even a FAQ about it. Ironically one of my first experiences with Spyderco was posting about a very non-positive experience with a liner locking Military.

The sticking of integrals is another one which can polarize some people when they first experience it as it isn't an obvious behavior of locks in general.

A lot of these things can seem so obvious when you experience them for so long it is hard to remember things were not always thus and maybe at one time we would have been just as frustrated, and unless we had Sal's patience, maybe a little frustrated in the experience. I know I wasn't impressed with my Military at all based on how it performed, but I was very impressed with customer service, even though they could not fix the problem (my hands and the military just don't work together, too bad for me).

Locks are polarizing though as are many respects of knives. I like the compression lock in many respects, my brother will not carry a knife with it because he finds it extremely awkward to open/manipulate.

[ChrisinHove]

This thread started with:

I had issues with a new Delica 4, and sent it in for repairs to Spyderco. The blade would not lock, and I could of cut my fingers.They said it was lint build up. I don't buy it for a moment. I carried it in my pocket for a few months,took it out, and operated it.All was good. I go to use it and it didn't lock.

On the separate Endura lock problem thread the OP stated:

"By-the-way, I tested the knife before I used it that day. It made a clicking sound and locked.Cut some cardboard boxes, closed the knife, and took a break. When I went to open it, it did not lock.Tried opening and closing it several times, and it still would not lock."

If we can assume lack of intent or put aside any possible reason or motivation for posting differing accounts the situation, or for not identifying and/or correcting any ambiguity/ inaccuracy on this his own thread etc:

The lock stopped working NOT after a long period of pocket carry and no use, but IMMEDIATELY after use for cutting up what may have been quite a reasonable amount of cardboard.