Endura date history questions for Sal or Spyderco Rep/Expert

[messer454]

Not sure if all the experts visit both this and the Bladeforums Spyderco forum so I have reposted it here.

Sal,

I realize the FRN Endura debuted in 1990 with what is called the "thin FRN clip" and no steel marked on the blade.

1. What year did you start to mark the steel on the blades?
2. What was the first unmarked steel?
3. What was the first marked steel?
4. Was there an order to Gin 1, G-2, and AUS8 or were they interchanged? Dates?
5. What year did the thicker FRN show up?


Example of a made up answer of something like I am hoping to hear from Sal. "The first Enduras were Gin1/G2, in 1991 we began marking the blades Gin1, in 1992 we changed label from Gin1 to G2 and left it that way until 1994 when we switched to Aus8." Or maybe they were made with markings of Gin1, G2, and Aus8 interchangeably during the same time period?


If this information is not recorded anywhere I would appreciate a best recollection anyway.

This might not be important to many people but I have been trying to piece together the Endura history and cannot find this info anywhere. I do not believe this is spelled out anywhere online or in the Spyderco Book.

This info is not on Spydiwiki.


Thanks,
Jerry SpyderNation #19

[Crack_addict]

this may help you:
http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?tit ... Variations

[Crack_addict]

I would be interested in this as well.
I think there were some AUS-6 enduras made where the tang stamp appears to say AUS-8 due to an imperfection.
Spydiwiki needs to be updated.

[messer454]

I would be interested in this as well.
I think there were some AUS-6 enduras made where the tang stamp appears to say AUS-8 due to an imperfection.
Spydiwiki needs to be updated.

Never heard of this before but could be. As far as I know all AUS 6 blades were only on steel handled versions though.

[tonydahose]

Sal would have to answer most of those questions Jerry. I wrote up the endura in the spyderwiki and there is some more info added to it by Sal at the bottom of the page. i dont know if you saw it.

http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=C10_Endura

[The Deacon]

I would be interested in this as well.
I think there were some AUS-6 enduras made where the tang stamp appears to say AUS-8 due to an imperfection.
Spydiwiki needs to be updated.

Never heard of this before but could be. As far as I know all AUS 6 blades were only on steel handled versions though.

Exactly, some folks do mistake the 6 on the all stainless Enduras and other AUS-6 models for an 8, just like folks post here about the V8-10 knife they just bought. However, AFAIK, no single variant of any model was ever produced in both AUS-6 and AUS-8 and none were ever advertised as having one when they had the other.

[THE PUNISHER]

I would be interested in this as well.
I think there were some AUS-6 enduras made where the tang stamp appears to say AUS-8 due to an imperfection.
Spydiwiki needs to be updated.

with your name, it is hard to take you seriously.

[Crack_addict]

with your name, it is hard to take you seriously.

Too many people take too many things too seriously.

As for my name, I would prefer to let my words and actions define me.

[The Deacon]

To the best of my knowledge all the SS Enduras prior to the SS Endura 4 were AUS-6 and marked as such. Based on its intro date, there should no SS Enduras with unmarked blades. According to The Spyderco Story, FRN Enduras without steel markings are GIN-1. Prior to the Endura 4, live blade FRN Enduras with steel markings were either GIN-1 marked as G-2, GIN-1 marked GIN-1, or AUS-8, in that order, depending on when they were made. I don't believe exact dates for the transitions from G-2 to GIN-1 markings, or for the transition from GIN-1 to AUS-8, have ever been provided. The "approximate" dates are thought to be: 1992 for no marking to marked G-2, 1995 for G-2 to GIN-1 markings, 1998 for GIN-1 to AUS-8 steel, but there is at least some evidence they may not be correct. What is certain, and is probably all that will ever be certain, is the order. FRN Endura Trainers were the only FRN Enduras ever produced in AUS-6. People do sometimes mistake 6's for 8's, and visa-versa, just as they mistake U's for 0's and S's for both 6's and 8's.

[tonydahose]

i just checked my list of SS endura 2s and all of them are AUS6, i have 4 of them.

[messer454]

Thanks guys. Myself personally, I do not have any SS Enduras anymore. I always thought they were slippery and have preferred FRN.

yablanowitz over on Bladeforums had much the same info as the Deacon so I think we can say we have the closest we will get unless Sal joins with different info. I went over my collection and was a little bit bummed to find that I did not have any Enduras marked Gin-1. I always assumed that was because Gin-1 was older, guess not. Yes I know they are the same steel but I thought I had all the different blade markings and handle changes from the first to the end of Endura 3.

Almost forgot. I did find several FRN Enduras with AUS 6 steel in my collection..........but they are all trainers.

[messer454]

Also not sure if they cross matter but i have an FRN Delica that I know I purchased in late 95 or early 96 that is marked AUS8. yablanowitz seemed to recall that they used AUS8 when they could not get Gin-1 for some reason and not necessarily as a move to that steel over Gin-1. Logically the Delica steel and Endura steel should have been the same during the same time periods but that might not be true.

[sal]

Hi Messer,

The info that has been provided has been accurate. Our afi's seem to have good grasp on our history. I'll try to add a few things.

The first Endura's and Delica's were made in 1990. We used a relatively thin integral clip as we had no history on FRN as a spring clip. When some of the clips broke, we added a thin strip on the underside of the clip for reinforcement. Then the 2nd version also showed evidence of not being strong enough, so we remade the tooling for the clip part of the mold and made the entire clip wider and thicker. This was done again a little later. We made 4 variations of the original integral clip before we gave up on the plastic clip and went to metal clips in 1998.

We began the model with Gingami I which was made by Hitachi. It was the best stainless available in Japan at the time. We couldn't put the name Gingami I on the blade becsuse the maker had used it for another company and wanted it to be exclusive for them. We went for a while with no steel markings on the blade. There was no US equivalent so when we decided to mark the blade, and we couldn't use Gingami I, we decided to make up a name and give the steel chemistry with the literature. We called the steel G-2 which stood for "Good Sh*t also". I tend to stretch humor a bit here and there. :o

As demand and production grew, we reached a point where the maker ran out of Gingami I and Hitachi didn't have any in stock. No one else was using the steel at the time so it was usually special ordered for us, but demand was greater than anticipated. The maker ordered AUS-10 as the closest steel available, but Aichi didn't stock AUS-10 and shipped AUS-8. A few hundred pieces were made with AUS-8 and marked G-2. Then we made the models for a while in AUS-8. We wanted to get it all sorted, so we got permission from the original company to use the name Gingami I (that was being saved). We chose to designate the steel as GIN-1 mostly to save space, but also to avoid confusion and keep everyone involved happy.

Then we changed to ATS-55 which was made by Hitachi as an alternative to ATS-34 (also made by Hitachi) and we were given an exclusive on that steel. We also were testing VG-10 by Takefu at the same time. Ultimately, we decided to use VG-10 for our main models and still do today.

I've always liked Gingami I as a good all around blade steel and we were importing the steel from Hitachi for use in our Golden factory. Then Carpenter made a "tweaked" version of Gingami I and called it CTS-BD1, which we are now using in our Golden plant.

Hope that hjelps.

sal

[IG-88]

Sal, thx for this great history lesson! Very nice to read, very educational. Learned a lot.... G-2 :D

Love the Endura 1

[tonydahose]

We called the steel G-2 which stood for "Good Sh*t also". I tend to stretch humor a bit here and there. :o



sal

LOL. thanks for the laugh and the info Sal!



I had to go and check my enduras because i had never noticed the add frn under the clip. I took a few pics:

with



without

[messer454]

Sal,

Thanks. This is one of the reasons I have always loved your company. Now the information is out there for anyone to reference. Thanks for your input and for everyone else's as well.


Jerry

[jabba359]

Ah Tony, you beat me to updating the Spydiewiki Endura page (I think we were typing our updates at the same time)! I took the consolation prize and updated the Delica page however. :D

[tonydahose]

ah-ha i had typed up all the new enduras that have come out and then went to save it and it erased it everything i had written because it said someone else was editing it :mad: ..lol, you owe me a beer now :p

[Delicauser]

In the late 90s my father inherited this Delica from a military friend who passed. He used it (up) and then was gifted a new Calypso Jr by me a few years back. I held onto his old Delica in a box. Neither of us being knife collectors, we didn't value you it beyond a knife that had given a long, long service life and was familial in nature at that point. I've read through the forums here and elsewhere and this appears to be an original Delica, if I'm not mistaken. Original as in model 1, pre blade markings, Gin-1 I'm assuming from what I read above, but pre markings due to contractual rights on the steel. Unfortunately the blade has been broken and resharpened a bit, and my dad didn't care for the clip it, so it was cut off. Anyone else have one? Does anyone have an opinion on whether I could replace the blade or should, given it's somewhat rare nature? Sounds like Gin-1 might be available still? Am I wrong in saying the Gin-1 appears shinier or more chrome like than other tool steels?

Dave?

[yablanowitz]

I don't see anything worth replacing the blade over. I gave one like that to my girlfriend for yardwork years ago. It was usually packed full of mud to the point it couldn't be closed, but she'd still be using it.

I don't know if actual GIN-1 is still available, but Carpenter has updated versions that work very well.
GIN-1 appears shinier and more chome-like than tool steels because it is not a tool steel, it is a stainless steel.

Edit to add: Welcome to the forum! There is a lot of knowledge floating around here.