Tatanka vs Voyager lock strength test By Cold Steel

[Bodog]

Well, if those tests mean anything to you, enjoy. This just highlights the spirit/values/style of the 2 companies.
Also, their math on costs is fuzzy at best saying the Tatanka was $220+ more expensive. Doing a very quick amazon search shows a $125 difference, which is a lot, but still not close to their claim in the video.

Maybe spyderco should stop listing the msrp at almost double the cost of street prices?

[gbelleh]

It's ok for CS to have a stronger lock. They've worked hard to optimize their Triad lock for just that purpose, and they're capitalizing on that with marketing efforts. We have no reason to be defensive. The Tatanka is a fine knife, and plenty strong. Just not quite as strong as the Triad lock in this test. We should all be able to graciously accept that.

[chuck_roxas45]

It's ok for CS to have a stronger lock. They've worked hard to optimize their Triad lock for just that purpose, and they're capitalizing on that with marketing efforts. We have no reason to be defensive. The Tatanka is a fine knife, and plenty strong. Just not quite as strong as the Triad lock in this test. We should all be able to graciously accept that.

This. ^^

[Donut]

In my opinion, it seems a little suspicious to have someone who has designed a lock... Has come up with some crazy looking tests and somehow the tests that he created show that his lock is stronger than any lock ever made.

The key fact is that he is mechanically inclined enough to design a new lock. I would be sold on the fact that he is smart enough to design tests that are biased towards his lock.


It is a cool video and it is entertaining. What I have learned the most from watching Cold Steel videos is how to be irresponsible and dangerous to myself while using a knife.

[Johnnie1801]

In my opinion, it seems a little suspicious to have someone who has designed a lock... Has come up with some crazy looking tests and somehow the tests that he created show that his lock is stronger than any lock ever made.

The key fact is that he is mechanically inclined enough to design a new lock. I would be sold on the fact that he is smart enough to design tests that are biased towards his lock.


It is a cool video and it is entertaining. What I have learned the most from watching Cold Steel videos is how to be irresponsible and dangerous to myself while using a knife.

Hey Don, I think the tests were legitimate but they could have added some other knives. Benchmade make some big claims about their axis lock and ZT always claim their knives are overbuilt (they even write it on their boxes), so why were they not added to the test?

To me, this exercise was just an attempt to bash Spyderco. Asking the cameraman every two minutes what the msrp of the Tatanka is and which country it was made in just made this into an advert for CS. All we learned was that 1. the Tatanka is overpriced 2. It's not American made and 3. the Voyager xl is a better knife.

Obviously CS must have been worried about the power lock on the Tatanka and needed to put it down, but doing a test using a competitors knife just smacks of desperation. I don't see any other knife company doing this, their products speak for themselves.

I'm sure Sal will watch this, have a laugh, pour another sake and go to bed....

[Donut]

Jon,

It probably did have an agenda.

I wonder if they did multiple tests and posted the one that turned out best for their agenda.

Why did they spine whack it first?

I find it hard to believe that the guy who made the lock doesn't know exactly what forces are being applied to each part of the lock during a spine whack and the weight test.


I don't think it's something to take lightly. There is something to be learned from it, but what is there to be learned?

[Johnnie1801]

I'm sure their R&D dept' took those Tatanka's apart and had a good look at how they work before making the video. They are professionals who know what they are doing.

I find it sad that CS have to stoop so low to make sales. Leave it up to independent youtubers to test knives, don't bash your competitors, let your products speak for themselves.

I always fancied buying one of their American Lawman knives but I won't anymore.

[Ankerson]

I don't think it's something to take lightly. There is something to be learned from it, but what is there to be learned?

Both blades broke before the locks gave out so that says both knives are more than strong enough to handle what they are designed to do.

[wrdwrght]

OK, so you can get more durability for much less cost in the Voyager, and Cold Steel wants and gets to brag about it.

Such, indeed, is the video's purpose. Why else would the guy say that the Voyager "kicked the Tatanka's ***"? Bragging in the marketplace is, of course, what selling is all about. Didn't Spyderco claim the Powerlock is the strongest lock on the market, and thus dare this smuggish response.

[EDIT: Apologies to Sal and crew. Thanks to v8r below, I'm reminded that Spyderco declared the Powerlock to be its strongest, not the market's. Throws even more unflattering light on CS.]

Hang on, though, what do CS's spine whacks and burdens actually tell us? Well, the forces tested do suggest some operational limits, but what operations with a folder do you and I carry out that these particular tests anticipate? If I had a bunch of Tatankas hammered into a tree to form a ladder, I guess the backs of the handles could support my 230 lbs... And, don't we already know batoning (not to forget prying) are risky last resorts?

In any case, for more rigorous tests, we really need to see some standard deviations and thus a much larger N.

And did I forget to wonder about the differences in AUS 8A vs. VG10, not to forget blade geometries, regarding fracturing from sudden or mounting loads, or the transfer of energy to the locking mechanism from these loadings?

Maybe tests comparing brands ought to be designed for real world applications, and control better for the obvious variables involved, before much can be taken from them.

ETA: Clarification

[araneae]

Well, if those tests mean anything to you, enjoy. This just highlights the spirit/values/style of the 2 companies.
Also, their math on costs is fuzzy at best saying the Tatanka was $220+ more expensive. Doing a very quick amazon search shows a $125 difference, which is a lot, but still not close to their claim in the video.

Maybe spyderco should stop listing the msrp at almost double the cost of street prices?

Dealers are free to sell at whatever price they want. There are many that sell at or near MSRP, especially B&M stores. Most web retailers are way below, that is called capitalism. At the beginning of the video the mention msrps, at the end, they compare Spyderco MSRP to CS street price. Not a fair comparison.

[araneae]

Well, if those tests mean anything to you, enjoy. This just highlights the spirit/values/style of the 2 companies.
Also, their math on costs is fuzzy at best saying the Tatanka was $220+ more expensive. Doing a very quick amazon search shows a $125 difference, which is a lot, but still not close to their claim in the video.

Maybe spyderco should stop listing the msrp at almost double the cost of street prices?

Dealers are free to sell at whatever price they want. There are many that sell at or near MSRP, especially B&M stores. Most web retailers are way below, that is called capitalism. At the beginning of the video they compare MSRP to MSRP, at the end, they compare Spyderco MSRP to CS street price. Not a fair comparison.

[Bugout Bill]

I thought it was a pretty interesting video that managed to show the durability of both of these knives. Yeah, it was a commercial and Cold Steel was talking smack, but this is nothing new. Thompson built his company off of that sort of marketing, I doubt it will hurt Spyderco's sales a whole lot.

As for questions of the applicability of this testing, you need to look at what the "mega-folder" is designed to do. From what I can gather, the "mega-folder" is really designed as a means of carrying a large knife in states where the concealed carry of fixed blades (or the carry of fixed blades in general) is restricted. They aren't fully intended as a fixed blade replacement in terms of durability, but it is meant to get most of the way there while still providing a better weapon than a smaller folding knife. In that case, testing the lock's strength and impact resistance is necessary. Spyderco knew this with their MBC rated knives.

Now in terms of durability for every day use, I haven't handled the Tatanka, so I don't know much about it's blade thickness and such. If it is stout enough, however, I don't see why the knife couldn't survive prying or digging, as well as batoning if the lock is disengaged.

[Ankerson]

It's ok for CS to have a stronger lock. They've worked hard to optimize their Triad lock for just that purpose, and they're capitalizing on that with marketing efforts. We have no reason to be defensive. The Tatanka is a fine knife, and plenty strong. Just not quite as strong as the Triad lock in this test. We should all be able to graciously accept that.

It's all marketing. :)

Both Spyderco and Cold Steel sell knives and each have their own business model that they use, in the end both seem to work as both companies are still in business and have been for a long time.

[bearfacedkiller]

If a company shows such a clear bias in the description of the prices comparing the models then why would I believe that there is no other bias in the test or video. The language alone proved that is was in no way an unbiased test. This test carries a modest amount of value to me for a number of reasons including the Cold Steel's credibility or lack there of. It has always been their marketing alone that has kept me away honestly.

One comment on the pricing thing, would we really rather have Spyderco enforce some sort of MAP pricing the way Benchmad does. I certainly would not as I enjoy the deep discounts our preferred online vendors give us.

[Johnnie1801]

It's all marketing. :)

Both Spyderco and Cold Steel sell knives and each have their own business model that they use, in the end both seem to work as both companies are still in business and have been for a long time.

That about sums it up but I much prefer Spyderco's business model. Did you all see the photo's of the new Spyderco facility in the latest SpyderByte? Very impressive, business must be good :D

[Ankerson]

It's all marketing. :)

Both Spyderco and Cold Steel sell knives and each have their own business model that they use, in the end both seem to work as both companies are still in business and have been for a long time.

That about sums it up but I much prefer Spyderco's business model. Did you all see the photo's of the new Spyderco facility in the latest SpyderByte? Very impressive, business must be good :D

I saw it. :) :cool:

I get models that I like, I don't really care who makes the knife, if it's well made and trips my trigger then I get it. :spyder:

I have had a lot of knives over the years, more than most I suppose and i found that buying what I like gives me more of a balanced appreciation of what's out there overall.

[Blerv]

I took a dozen or so film classes in college and am very skeptical of any person with a video camera. Even if everything is legitimate (which I believe is the case with CS) the influence on the audience is solely based on the people scripting the event. As mentioned by another poster, if this was Cliff or Jim testing the knives I would be more impressed by any results because know they would show the good and the bad while keeping a less biased evaluation.

Both are extremely strong knives which will out-last normal use or even abnormal use. The MBC approach to lock building is IMHO sensationalism for so many reasons; the Delica4/Endura4 is a respected tool for martial artists around the world. The statement that chopping and missing "happens all the time" and thus makes the over-stop tests extremely important is just not true. Also, build location and price are not important (A Volvo S60 has similar crash tests to a Porsche 911) as one knife has perks and polish that go well beyond what a functional tool requires. If you can't afford the more expensive knife then it is important as your options are limited.

If I wanted to buy one of two large folding knives and planned rigorous use for them I still likely wouldn't likely be stuck on price or lock strength. I would pick the model that provided the overall performance and aesthetics that I felt comfortable paying for, if I felt safe with either knife I wouldn't scour the web for lock-break tests. Likely I would be taking multiple knives into the woods (or whatever) anyways and one would be a fixed blade. Just as I carry two flashlights on me every day instead of trying to distort my needs into something that sacrifices in another area. Not to mention more is typically more reliable than only one.

No hate for CS. No blind loves for Spyderco. Neither knife is appealing on any level. I value a strong lock but also maturely know my needs and shop for those without asking the cool kids. Personally, if Hafthór Júlíus Björnsson (copy/pasted that :p) was in the video pulling a semi-truck by either knife while clenched by his teeth it wouldn't make me any more likely to buy one.

[Ankerson]

No hate for CS. No blind loves for Spyderco. Neither knife is appealing on any level. I value a strong lock but also maturely know my needs and shop for those without asking the cool kids. Personally, if Hafthór Júlíus Björnsson (copy/pasted that :p) was in the video pulling a semi-truck by either knife while clenched by his teeth it wouldn't make me any more likely to buy one.

I know what you mean, I personally prefer Liner and Frame Locks to any of the others so I tend to lean towards those models for actual carry and use. :)

[Blerv]

I know what you mean, I personally prefer Liner and Frame Locks to any of the others so I tend to lean towards those models for actual carry and use. :)

Exactly :). I just buy the knife I like and enjoy carrying. If asked if the lock is strong (yet to happen, lol) I would just respond with, "It's trustworthy enough to carry and use."

[Ankerson]

I know what you mean, I personally prefer Liner and Frame Locks to any of the others so I tend to lean towards those models for actual carry and use. :)

Exactly :). I just buy the knife I like and enjoy carrying. If asked if the lock is strong (yet to happen, lol) I would just respond with, "It's trustworthy enough to carry and use."

Never been asked that question either face to face. :D

If anyone ever did ask I would just say it's strong enough for me. :)