Spyderco Forums

Milu wrote:I can legally own and carry an auto, a balisong, a pistol. However, the question I would pose is:

should stupid laws be respected?

In today's world it is much easier to pass a stupid law than to repeal it. And who is qualified to judge which laws deserve to be respected (except me of course )?

Respected, maybe not, but if you mean obeyed, there are a number of reasons. Some of these reasons:

Individuals avoid being arrested and prosecuted.

Companies that make knives avoid seizures and paying court imposed fines.

Individuals avoid possible interaction with armed law enforcement professionals and possible use of force by those professionals if the law enforcement officers feel that the individual is reaching for an illegal weapon.

And both police officers and judges will be happy to explain to you, as you are processed through the justice system, that they are quite qualified to tell you how you disobeyed the law and can even recite the penalties you will face. The judge will even feel qualified to deprive you of your liberty for a few days, months, or maybe years, depending upon which law you have decided is "stupid" and which should not apply to you.

As you are in a foreign nation, your laws are different than those imposed in the United States. I would suggest, though, that treating the laws of your nation in a cavalier fashion might not be the smartest move in the world if you wish to continue to enjoy your liberty.

As you rightly say, judges and policeman are quite happy to explain it But my question was meant in a more general way not specifically weapons. For example pogroms in nazi Germany - where do we draw the line on wrong laws, at what point do we react, when do we stop being frightened of beng punished for breaking a law that is wrong? And I stress again it is much easier to pass a law than to repeal it.

Milu wrote:As you rightly say, judges and policeman are quite happy to explain it But my question was meant in a more general way not specifically weapons. For example pogroms in nazi Germany - where do we draw the line on wrong laws, at what point do we react, when do we stop being frightened of beng punished for breaking a law that is wrong? And I stress again it is much easier to pass a law than to repeal it.

Personally, I'd place the point at which getting arrested for engaging in civil disobedience to protest a bad law becomes an acceptable risk somewhere between a law which, at its worst, deprives me of the ability to legally own an amusing toy and one which sanctions genocide.

As with most things in life, that point will differ from person to person. It will also vary, at least for those with some intelligence, based on the relationship between the risk of punishment, the severity of punishment, and the egregiousness of the law. Other factors can enter into it too. I know that both my age and five years of working "in population" in prisons have made me more risk averse in that regard that I might have been thirty odd years ago.

There are, of course, some laws which can be broken by individuals with relative impunity, as long as they are broken quietly. But to claim that is civil disobedience would be absurd. The one act is altruistic, the other totally self-serving.

Is it better not understood... for who?

KaliGman wrote: (2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.
.

This would include most of the Spyderco line-up and many other folding knives .

Butch had a funny point, you can carry a concealed pistol in the U.S., but not a balisong or auto if you're an ordinary citizen. You should be able to obtain a license for auto knives like pistols.

I just got an email from someone at BladeForums about US customs broadening their definition of switchblades and making it sound like my Endura is going to be illegal if I don't take action. Is this for real?

Does a correctional officer fall in the ALLOWED group??

having retired from law enforcement in 95`, and what I know of technology and today's enforcement efforts; please do not boast of your illegal possessions or the methods employed to obtain them. especially when a paper or tech trail is being left. all you do is set yourself up for failure, down the road.

in the art of war... you do not boast of your weapons. you allow the other side to discover them; when it is too late. :D

keeps your toys and noise in your hands and in your minds.

I can assure you that the moron that whips out an auto knife, to portray themself as a Bad ***; would be more viewd as a Dumb ***. yet... if Joe Citizen happened upon a vehicle accident, popped it out and freed an entrapment; no one would bust your chops over it.

it is more of a Common Sense aspect...

Knife Crazied wrote:Does a correctional officer fall in the ALLOWED group??

yes!!!!! and so do EMS and Fire Fighters.

I just wouldn't take it into resticted areas. you may find out what it was intended for.

you know... that Law of Unintended Consequence :cool:

FreeRider67 wrote:yes!!!!! and so do EMS and Fire Fighters.

I'd say that may (or may not) be true at the Federal level. However, I'm disinclined to think it would be true in all states at the State level. It would depend on how the exemptions in the State law were worded combined with the status of Corrections Officers in that state. Here in New York, for example, there is even some question as to whether Police Officer's are legally entitled to purchase automatics as individuals.

That said, out of "professional courtesy", if nothing else, the chances of a Police Officer actually arresting another cop, or a CO, Fireman, or EMS worker on a weapons charge unless said person had been caught on camera doing something outrageously stupid with one, is pretty remote.

Hey!!!!

I think at the brand Benchmade....
Lot of auto , balisong and others....
And no problem to buy...By anyone... Why ???
Sorry for my ignorance of your law... I am French.
Thank you.

Tibo.

many of our laws attempt to prohibit what the criminals may posses. however, in doing so; it prohibits the honest people for possessing the same item. and the criminals do not obey the laws anyway. so the only persons that are truly effected by the laws, are the people the laws are meant to protect.

I hope this answers your question and provides you some insight to a portion of our legal system.

George :cool:

FreeRider67 wrote:many of our laws attempt to prohibit what the criminals may posses. however, in doing so; it prohibits the honest people for possessing the same item. and the criminals do not obey the laws anyway. so the only persons that are truly effected by the laws, are the people the laws are meant to protect.

I hope this answers your question and provides you some insight to a portion of our legal system.

George :cool:

That applies to a lot of things. A small percentage of people misuse something and other people, who don't use the item in question, decide to outlaw the knife, gun, motorcycle, etc. Funny that nobody ever tries to outlaw cars to prevent all the car-related deaths each year.

O.K...
Thank you....
Strange......

Tibo.(France).

Another explanation. Unlike many other countries, laws made by the US government are not always interpreted the same way throughout the country, unless there has been a specific ruling by our Supreme Court. Our federal court system is divided into 11 geographic regions, called Circuits. Each Circuit can, and sometimes does, interpret a given law differently.

In the case of automatics and balisongs, the 10th Circuit, where Spyderco is located, has interpreted the law more strictly, and many feel inaccurately, when compared with other Circuits. That means their balisongs are subject to rules no other maker's balisongs are, since no other makers are located in the jurisdiction of the 10th Circuit.

It also means Spyderco must make more effort to insure their dealers comply with the laws governing automatics than any other manufacturer must. According to Federal law, the only state where persons other than LEOs and the military can purchase any make of automatic legally is in the state where that maker is located. In reality, most manufacturers do not enforce compliance by their dealers and so, in states where state law allows private citizens to own autos, you can buy pretty much any brand.

The good news for you is that the law here doesn't govern overseas sales, so if autos are legal in France, you should be able to buy a Spyderco auto.

O.K Paul ....

Thank you !!!
Great explanation.
Now, i understand.

Tibo.(France).

So where do trainers stand? Officially they don't seem to be a knife because they are unable to cut or divide things. Can I buy one of those if I am not law enforcement? I don't see why I could not, but laws don't always make sense.

Also, what if I buy it in Oregon? I was recently at a show here where I saw hundreds of balis. I understand that the court jurisdiction is totally different than Colorado, so is it illegal to sell balis across state lines if the two states allow them? What about if they were produced in Colorado?

SolidState wrote:So where do trainers stand? Officially they don't seem to be a knife because they are unable to cut or divide things. Can I buy one of those if I am not law enforcement? I don't see why I could not, but laws don't always make sense.

Also, what if I buy it in Oregon? I was recently at a show here where I saw hundreds of balis. I understand that the court jurisdiction is totally different than Colorado, so is it illegal to sell balis across state lines if the two states allow them? What about if they were produced in Colorado?

Please keep in mind that my understanding may not be correct. That said, as I understand it, if you are outside the jurisdiction of the US 10th Circuit Court and are violating no laws in your own state by purchasing a SmallFly Trainer. You would only have a problem if it needed service. At that point you'd be out of luck, because Spyderco could not legally return it to you or, AFAIK, send you parts for it. The same would be true of live blade Spyderco balisongs.

That is, of course, unless you're planning on annoying Uncle Sugar enough to encourage him to think up creative ways to screw you. :eek: :D

Thanks Deacon. I'm waiting for KGM to respond, he seems to have the answers on this one.