Putting serration styles aside, think of this in terms of which knife will cut more viscously. For me any knife that is shaped in a way that increases pull cutting ability also tends to increase serration performance, so knives with straighter edges and negative blade angles do really well.
I would really like a k390 SE Wharncliff but idk if they offer that in any of the Blue models.
Not yet that I'm aware of. The Police 4 still has a fairly negative blade angle and a shallow enough belly that it still cuts very aggressively. I don't think you'd be disappointed.
What are your thoughts on the Sheepfoot Carribian.
Oh it's one of my absolute favorites. I did reprofile the tip of mine into more of a point but I really like the slight belly that it has.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:05 am
by Blerv
How does the new Ayoob rank on the teeth scale, David? Mine looks pretty perfect for performance out of the box.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
How does the new Ayoob rank on the teeth scale, David? Mine looks pretty perfect for performance out of the box.
It slices really well right out of the box, I haven't experienced any snagging whatsoever. I am a little concerned about reprofiling it because they're already a lot less defined than others, so the potential of "sharpening them away" is definitely higher. I haven't tried sharpening mine yet but I really hope they're closer to 15 degrees from the factory so there won't be a need for a lot of steel removal. The plain edge portion on both of mine is at least 45 degrees though, and the angle actually changes from the tip to the first serration. I have a bunch they did this on purpose because the way the saber grind gets thicker towards the tip of the blade, if they kept the same angle throughout the whole plain edge section, it would be wider at the tip of the blade and people would assume that was a flaw since it would look inconsistent. I also have a feeling that the "snaggletooth" serrations are closer to matching the angle of the rest of the serrations, while the ones that look more normal may actually be a steeper angle and be more of a pain to reprofile and match to the rest of the serrations.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:49 pm
by mark greenman
Putting Ayoob through some use now.
The SE pattern is very shallow / minimally spiky, quite a bit less so then any of my other Spydercos.
I was concerned that this minimal spikiness would basically be a wavy PE, and lack enough of the SE 'bite' into materials that allows for good pullcuting.
Very pleasantly surprised that this was not the case. Using the belly of the blade - no tip - the SE/ Spikes still engaged this pretty tough clamshell pack, and sliced it open quickly with a single pass. This is the sort of rigid/flexy plastic I've found a PE will slide off of without first piercing with the tip. So I was very pleased with this performance.
Definitely more horsepower then a PE.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:53 am
by mark greenman
I came across a pretty remarkable SE sharpening video on Youtube just now.
Using a Tormek, he gets the edge down to an 89 on the BESS scale.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:57 am
by sal
Hi Mark,
Interesting method. I'd like to see some "real World Testing" and maybe a CATRA test on his edge.
sal
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Interesting method. I'd like to see some "real World Testing" and maybe a CATRA test on his edge.
sal
Hi Sal,
I'd also be interested in seeing that tested, as I have never seen this method of SE sharpening before.
While I have you here, this is a question I've had for awhile - how does Spyderco re-sharpen serrations when they are sent back to the factory for resharpening?
Are they done by hand on a sharpmaker, or are they also sharpened with some sort of machine? I'd love to be able to get mine to a 'factory edge' again consistently.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:32 pm
by Bill1170
I’m curious to know how much steel was removed from the flat back of the knife in the video, using the wet wheel.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:44 pm
by Evil D
Seems similar to my old Dremel stropping method, except I wouldn't sharpen the back of the blade like that. We've had that debate here a few times and it's just not for me.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I came across a pretty remarkable SE sharpening video on Youtube just now.
Using a Tormek, he gets the edge down to an 89 on the BESS scale.
Nice results. I did notice that his cut test only involves one scallop at a time instead of a slice cut along the edge. The one issue with that method is that after a few sharpenings, you would elongate the teeth which would increase drag and snagginess.
Evil D, your method seems to be one of the more simple and repeatable methods. I am a recent convert to SE with my k390 endura and it's now my favorite knife of all time! I have, however, tried a few different sharpening methods including one where I use a flat stone on an a guided angle to give each tooth a tiny little edge. It performed really well, but it looks weird. You get a nice piece of razor edge with essentially 2 points on each side. I have since gone back to pointed/round teeth. I think in the future I will try the flat tooth method for a long-term test (think Chris reeve serrations but much smaller).
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:41 pm
by Evil D
I wasn't sure where to post this but it seems most relevant to this thread.
I got a new Autonomy yesterday and today decided to touch up the edge (it actually came with a couple rolls in the edge). I started out like I do every knife by coloring the bevel to get an idea of what angle the serrations might be ground at, and to my absolute delight they're ground quite thin, somewhere below 15 degrees because the 30 degree slots on the Sharpmaker are micro beveling the edge. This means I won't have to bother with a heavy reprofile job. I would absolutely love to see this become a trend with SE knives and I think it would go a long way to making SE sharpening a more enjoyable experience to both new and experienced users.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I wasn't sure where to post this but it seems most relevant to this thread.
I got a new Autonomy yesterday and today decided to touch up the edge (it actually came with a couple rolls in the edge). I started out like I do every knife by coloring the bevel to get an idea of what angle the serrations might be ground at, and to my absolute delight they're ground quite thin, somewhere below 15 degrees because the 30 degree slots on the Sharpmaker are micro beveling the edge. This means I won't have to bother with a heavy reprofile job. I would absolutely love to see this become a trend with SE knives and I think it would go a long way to making SE sharpening a more enjoyable experience to both new and experienced users.
It's always a relief when you realize you don't have to sit at the desk and grind away for hours to reach that apex!
I think 15 or even 20 degrees would be ideal seeing as the back side is essentially 0 degrees. My k390 endura is around 20 degrees right now and the edge tends to roll like crazy if it encounters anything hard. At least it doesn't chip, I suppose.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I think 15 or even 20 degrees would be ideal seeing as the back side is essentially 0 degrees. My k390 endura is around 20 degrees right now and the edge tends to roll like crazy if it encounters anything hard. At least it doesn't chip, I suppose.
Try sharpening the back side at 15/20 and add a small bevel back there. Then you'll still have a very thin edge "behind the bevel" so to speak and the apex will be more sturdy.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I think 15 or even 20 degrees would be ideal seeing as the back side is essentially 0 degrees. My k390 endura is around 20 degrees right now and the edge tends to roll like crazy if it encounters anything hard. At least it doesn't chip, I suppose.
Try sharpening the back side at 15/20 and add a small bevel back there. Then you'll still have a very thin edge "behind the bevel" so to speak and the apex will be more sturdy.
That's exactly what I started to do. Just barely enough light swipes to de-burr but there's definitely a microbevel working up.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
I think 15 or even 20 degrees would be ideal seeing as the back side is essentially 0 degrees. My k390 endura is around 20 degrees right now and the edge tends to roll like crazy if it encounters anything hard. At least it doesn't chip, I suppose.
Try sharpening the back side at 15/20 and add a small bevel back there. Then you'll still have a very thin edge "behind the bevel" so to speak and the apex will be more sturdy.
That's exactly what I started to do. Just barely enough light swipes to de-burr but there's definitely a microbevel working up.
Really despite being chisel ground almost all of my SE blades are really 30 inclusive because of this. I have experimented with a couple knives sharpening the back side flat on the rods but I really haven't seen any advantage to keeping the edge that thin, and it chews up the back side of the blade and giving it a tiny bevel in the back makes a world of difference in edge toughness. My Autonomy has been sharpened this way for 5 years and the bevel is still tiny, I never use anything more coarse than the brown rods and only to remove the burr like you said.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:19 am
by Bill1170
David, isn’t the tiny bevel on the otherwise flat side of the knife similar to what some modern Japanese kitchen knife makers do?
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
David, isn’t the tiny bevel on the otherwise flat side of the knife similar to what some modern Japanese kitchen knife makers do?
Not sure, I don't have any kitchen knives that fancy lol.
I don’t, either, but seem to recall reading about a Miyabi knife that was convexed on the bevel (right) side so the slices wouldn’t stick to the blade and very slightly microbeveled on the flat left side for either edge stability or for magical other reasons.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
David, isn’t the tiny bevel on the otherwise flat side of the knife similar to what some modern Japanese kitchen knife makers do?
Yes. I have a few Japanese knives that are ground with asymmetrical grinds and love them. Super fast to sharpen and cut fantastically.
Re: SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:57 am
by sal
A "Hammaguri" blade shape is what we would call "Appleseed" or "Moran" edge.
A "Kataba" grind is generally Saber ground on the face side and concave on the back side so food doesn't stick. Sometimes "Kataba" grinds will be Saber on the face side and flat on the back side. I have a large Sashimi knife in H1 ground that way. Chef's will often put a small bevel on the back side.
I generally sharpen my serrations with the 3 strokes (ground side) to 1 stroke (back side) which eliminates a burr and also adds that small bevel.
