Spyderco Collaborators You Would Love to See Again?

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

I would like to see a collaboration with Bob Lum as I liked his Past Tanto folder design he did with Spyderco.
As far as fixed blades. I would choose Phil Wilson as I really like the Bow River I own. Even if it is only 8CR13MOV.
I actually would love to see more budget fixed blades from Spyderco/Phil Wilson.

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

I swear we did this thread a couple of months back...

So many good choices in this thread!

I'd like Spyderco to no longer give the cold shoulder to designers who went on to work with other manufacturers. It seems unwise to cut off one's own nose to spite their face. I would think it would be a good thing to show how much better your collaborations are vs the competition.

Indeed i heard this happening more then once and i am shocked that Spyderco is still so "childish" in this area. Even worse that some of those collaborators did not even know Spyderco would be that way until it happend and Spyderco reacted so coldly for something that is in my eyes only normal. If spyderco does not want a specific design why can not anobody else make it ( without the hole then ) ? That should not meen that the maker isnt welcome in golden anymore for all future time. That is just plain stupid in my book.

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

[elena86]

........
Also, I’d love to see them work with Kevin Wilkins again to develop an updated Leafstorm.......

That ! A slightly longer wharnie Leafstorm would be a helluva pocket knife. Just keep the natural G10 and the hollow grind.
Since I mentioned a knife that deserves to be resurrected, please, please Spyderco, bring back the Ouroboros... in a different steel maybe....

[Mushroom]

........
Also, I’d love to see them work with Kevin Wilkins again to develop an updated Leafstorm.......

That ! A slightly longer wharnie Leafstorm would be a helluva pocket knife. Just keep the natural G10 and the hollow grind.

I’m a big fan of his Leafstorm 9v2. I love the really low tip and slight bit of belly near the tip.



He also has a Leafstorm 9 Warncliffe though too!



Photos from Kevin Wilkins Instagram. https://instagram.com/wilkins_knives?ig ... MyMTA2M2Y=

[apollo]

I swear we did this thread a couple of months back...

So many good choices in this thread!

I'd like Spyderco to no longer give the cold shoulder to designers who went on to work with other manufacturers. It seems unwise to cut off one's own nose to spite their face. I would think it would be a good thing to show how much better your collaborations are vs the competition.

Indeed i heard this happening more then once and i am shocked that Spyderco is still so "childish" in this area. Even worse that some of those collaborators did not even know Spyderco would be that way until it happend and Spyderco reacted so coldly for something that is in my eyes only normal. If spyderco does not want a specific design why can not anobody else make it ( without the hole then ) ? That should not meen that the maker isnt welcome in golden anymore for all future time. That is just plain stupid in my book.

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

As for the info i have ( of 2 different people ) spyderco does not work with contracts. Those probably are more for people like Marcin slysz or Peter Rassenti.
So as the people that are not under contract by spyderco and give spyderco there designs to choose from, the ones Sal and Eric do not like , those then should be free to be made by someone other who wants to make them without any issue in my eyes. Without the maker getting on a blacklist from Spyderco because well they had the chance and trew it away.... that is not very gentlemenly in my eyes knowing that the maker wanted them to be spydies in the first place...

[apollo]

I swear we did this thread a couple of months back...

So many good choices in this thread!

I'd like Spyderco to no longer give the cold shoulder to designers who went on to work with other manufacturers. It seems unwise to cut off one's own nose to spite their face. I would think it would be a good thing to show how much better your collaborations are vs the competition.

Indeed i heard this happening more then once and i am shocked that Spyderco is still so "childish" in this area. Even worse that some of those collaborators did not even know Spyderco would be that way until it happend and Spyderco reacted so coldly for something that is in my eyes only normal. If spyderco does not want a specific design why can not anobody else make it ( without the hole then ) ? That should not meen that the maker isnt welcome in golden anymore for all future time. That is just plain stupid in my book.

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

As for the info i have ( of 2 different people ) spyderco does not work with contracts. Those probably are more for people like Marcin slysz or Peter Rassenti.
So as the people that are not under contract by spyderco and give spyderco there designs to choose from, the ones Sal and Eric do not like , those then should be free to be made by someone other who wants to make them without any issue in my eyes. Without the maker getting on a blacklist from Spyderco because well they had the chance and trew it away.... that is not very gentlemenly in my eyes knowing that the maker wanted them to be spydies in the first place...

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

I swear we did this thread a couple of months back...

So many good choices in this thread!

I'd like Spyderco to no longer give the cold shoulder to designers who went on to work with other manufacturers. It seems unwise to cut off one's own nose to spite their face. I would think it would be a good thing to show how much better your collaborations are vs the competition.

Indeed i heard this happening more then once and i am shocked that Spyderco is still so "childish" in this area. Even worse that some of those collaborators did not even know Spyderco would be that way until it happend and Spyderco reacted so coldly for something that is in my eyes only normal. If spyderco does not want a specific design why can not anobody else make it ( without the hole then ) ? That should not meen that the maker isnt welcome in golden anymore for all future time. That is just plain stupid in my book.

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

As for the info i have ( of 2 different people ) spyderco does not work with contracts. Those probably are more for people like Marcin slysz or Peter Rassenti.
So as the people that are not under contract by spyderco and give spyderco there designs to choose from, the ones Sal and Eric do not like , those then should be free to be made by someone other who wants to make them without any issue in my eyes. Without the maker getting on a blacklist from Spyderco because well they had the chance and trew it away.... that is not very gentlemenly in my eyes knowing that the maker wanted them to be spydies in the first place...

Thank you for explaining. Does seem a bit harsh if those 2 people are telling the truth.

[apollo]

Indeed i heard this happening more then once and i am shocked that Spyderco is still so "childish" in this area. Even worse that some of those collaborators did not even know Spyderco would be that way until it happend and Spyderco reacted so coldly for something that is in my eyes only normal. If spyderco does not want a specific design why can not anobody else make it ( without the hole then ) ? That should not meen that the maker isnt welcome in golden anymore for all future time. That is just plain stupid in my book.

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

As for the info i have ( of 2 different people ) spyderco does not work with contracts. Those probably are more for people like Marcin slysz or Peter Rassenti.
So as the people that are not under contract by spyderco and give spyderco there designs to choose from, the ones Sal and Eric do not like , those then should be free to be made by someone other who wants to make them without any issue in my eyes. Without the maker getting on a blacklist from Spyderco because well they had the chance and trew it away.... that is not very gentlemenly in my eyes knowing that the maker wanted them to be spydies in the first place...

Thank you for explaining. Does seem a bit harsh if those 2 people are telling the truth.

No problem. The thing is Spyderco makes collabs with “fans” regularly so that is why those smaller makers do not end up with a contract I imagine. And well I consider them both friends and 1 in particular i am without a doubt 1000% sure he would never ly to me especially about this
But people should not forget spyderco is a company and even though in my eyes there one of the best companies in the world. They still are playing the money game and there will never be a real saint to find on those roads. Even with nice people on the wheel there are to many other factors of influence behind the scenes we can never know about that could end in strange business tactics that are less nice then what we expect sometimes.

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

Interesting. I wonder if there are other "Reasons" such as breach of contract or legalities that are kept private for that decision. Very interesting.

As for the info i have ( of 2 different people ) spyderco does not work with contracts. Those probably are more for people like Marcin slysz or Peter Rassenti.
So as the people that are not under contract by spyderco and give spyderco there designs to choose from, the ones Sal and Eric do not like , those then should be free to be made by someone other who wants to make them without any issue in my eyes. Without the maker getting on a blacklist from Spyderco because well they had the chance and trew it away.... that is not very gentlemenly in my eyes knowing that the maker wanted them to be spydies in the first place...

Thank you for explaining. Does seem a bit harsh if those 2 people are telling the truth.

No problem. The thing is Spyderco makes collabs with “fans” regularly so that is why those smaller makers do not end up with a contract I imagine. And well I consider them both friends and 1 in particular i am without a doubt 1000% sure he would never ly to me especially about this
But people should not forget spyderco is a company and even though in my eyes there one of the best companies in the world. They still are playing the money game and there will never be a real saint to find on those roads. Even with nice people on the wheel there are to many other factors of influence behind the scenes we can never know about that could end in strange business tactics that are less nice then what we expect sometimes.

I like your way of thinking. I also need to thank you for reminding me that business and friendship do not mix. Appreciate the lesson and reminder.

[sal]

There are a number of reasons that we try to keep our designers with us:

We did a collaboration with a well known custom maker. After we introduced the design. The designer did a very similar design with a competitor. The competitor made their knife in China at 1/3rd the price of ours and ours died.

We did a collaboration design with another designer. Once the contract was signed (yes we used contracts) he sent letters to many of our competitors saying that he was designing for Spyderco and he wanted to design for them as well. One of them built one of his designs, again, made in China, which killed our model.

We also learned that if we advertise and promote a maker and then they begin designing for other factories, it no longer paid to promote the designer as we were in fact promoting our competitors, most of which were much less expensive.

We've had several collaborations with designers that were just very difficult to work with. we felt they were being unreasonable so we dissolved the relationship.

We did one design with a designer. He told us we'd have to make thousands more than we had panned because he had sold the design to a famous gun training company and they would need thousands. The deal never was true. Then he hired away our factory manager, knocked off the design we were making for him and competed against us. No, we won't bring back some of these designs even if our customers ask for them.

Our royalties to a collaborator for a designer are 5% of our sales. We had one designer that was being represented by another dealer between us. He felt that his client was way better than the likes of Michael Walker and Bob Terzuola and wanted a higher percentage. We didn't think that was fair so we dropped the project.

We had one custom maker nagged us to make is model that he said was selling like crazy and he couldn't make enough. We eventually made his model. He had lied about their demand. We closed them out at a loss.

Yes, we are a business, but we do have integrity and try to be fair. Sometimes there is more going on than might seem evident.

sal

[apollo]

There are a number of reasons that we try to keep our designers with us:

We did a collaboration with a well known custom maker. After we introduced the design. The designer did a very similar design with a competitor. The competitor made their knife in China at 1/3rd the price of ours and ours died.

We did a collaboration design with another designer. Once the contract was signed (yes we used contracts) he sent letters to many of our competitors saying that he was designing for Spyderco and he wanted to design for them as well. One of them built one of his designs, again, made in China, which killed our model.

We also learned that if we advertise and promote a maker and then they begin designing for other factories, it no longer paid to promote the designer as we were in fact promoting our competitors, most of which were much less expensive.

We've had several collaborations with designers that were just very difficult to work with. we felt they were being unreasonable so we dissolved the relationship.

We did one design with a designer. He told us we'd have to make thousands more than we had panned because he had sold the design to a famous gun training company and they would need thousands. The deal never was true. Then he hired away our factory manager, knocked off the design we were making for him and competed against us. No, we won't bring back some of these designs even if our customers ask for them.

Our royalties to a collaborator for a designer are 5% of our sales. We had one designer that was being represented by another dealer between us. He felt that his client was way better than the likes of Michael Walker and Bob Terzuola and wanted a higher percentage. We didn't think that was fair so we dropped the project.

We had one custom maker nagged us to make is model that he said was selling like crazy and he couldn't make enough. We eventually made his model. He had lied about their demand. We closed them out at a loss.

Yes, we are a business, but we do have integrity and try to be fair. Sometimes there is more going on than might seem evident.

sal

Sal i am sure almost all if not all of those deserved that treatment. And by most of the subjects you told i can even guess who they were. Especially the gunting just stabs you in the nose there.
But how do you react if someone for example just made a mistake and is remorseful for it ?
Do you believe in second chances? Because like i said i think spyderco is one of the best companies in the world and i met you and Eric and my thoughts are that you are a very kind and friendly guy as is youre son. But when a mistake is made is there a path back? Because not all people that do something wrong are bad people with bad intentions. Some really do want to make up and move on for example.
I would imagine you could agree on such a case a second ( but never a third ) chance is a possibility?

[sal]

Hi Apollo,

If you have someone in mind that you think "made a mistake" and is remorseful, have them contact me. We, at Spyderco, are not close minded people and everything is always up for discussion. Most everything is slow moving right now because of a variety of reasons, so collaborations are no exception.

Most of the time, designers approach us, Some like Alistair, Bob Lum, etc. I have sought out. We've done quite a few and will continue to do so. Our customers like the variety and many of our collaboration designs have been requested by our customers. We create designs for our ELU (End Line Users) where as many manufacturers serve and take advice for designs from their dealers and distributors. While we do listen to them as well, our main customer is the person that cuts with the knife.

sal

=====================================================================================

"Loyalty before all else except honor"

[BeggarSo]

Sal

Wow am I shocked!

Here I thought that there was honor among all these collaborators a tight knit bunch, Man I feel stupid all over again I thought in this industry people would be better than that!

Some may wonder why and my answer would be there is nothing about working with steel that can possibly be easy let alone make things as complicated as folders, I mean it take artistry which is not common and from that well I believed built a good moral character of decency.

Sal I am really sorry you and Spyderco have had to deal with this stuff, makes me feel bad about even bringing up a forum knife.

Is it my imagination or is human nature getting worse as time goes on? Pretty depressing to read first the forum can't agree on a knife and now this.

Wow how do you keep going?

[JoshLikesSekiCityKnives]

Sal

Wow am I shocked!

Here I thought that there was honor among all these collaborators a tight knit bunch, Man I feel stupid all over again I thought in this industry people would be better than that!

Some may wonder why and my answer would be there is nothing about working with steel that can possibly be easy let alone make things as complicated as folders, I mean it take artistry which is not common and from that well I believed built a good moral character of decency.

Sal I am really sorry you and Spyderco have had to deal with this stuff, makes me feel bad about even bringing up a forum knife.

Is it my imagination or is human nature getting worse as time goes on? Pretty depressing to read first the forum can't agree on a knife and now this.

Wow how do you keep going?

That makes 2 of us that are shocked.

[Zipper]

I’m shocked you guys are ‘shocked’. A little bit of research shows numerous cases of dodgy deals and shady characters in the cutlery trade. Really, it is no different to any other industry.
Thankfully there are many stories (granted, some may be just PR stunts) of good deeds and ethical decision making.

[sal]

Wow how do you keep going?

Hi BeggarSo,

There are way more great folks like the people here, which is a constant encouragement.

sal

[skeeg11]

We create designs for our ELU (End Line Users) where as many manufacturers serve and take advice for designs from their dealers and distributors. While we do listen to them as well, our main customer is the person that cuts with the knife.

sal

=====================================================================================

"Loyalty before all else except honor"

It actually feels good to support a company with Spyderco's values. I don't mind paying a little extra for that. By and large, those values are reflected in the people on this forum. I truly consider my daily visits here as therapy so thanks to Sal and all for helping me maintain my sanity.

[sal]

Too late Skeeg,

You're already crazy.

sal

[skeeg11]

Too late Skeeg,

You're already crazy.

sal

So true, but the civility reflected by forum members goes a long ways towards restoring my faith in mankind.

[cabfrank]

I was thinking, before sal posted, human nature is not getting worse. There are still many more good people than bad. We just hear more about the bad, in news, media, etc.