Tatanka vs Voyager lock strength test By Cold Steel

[Bill1170]

I thought the Tatanka used VG-10 steel?

[ChrisinHove]

Why doesn't the impact in the swinging lump test depend upon the friction between the knife handle and arm? I see they torque the fixing bolt, but if the scale material and pattern is different, won't the degree of slip be a factor? The striking plate should be sprung and the knife fixed.

Might make no difference here though.

[mark greenman]

What's interesting is that the Tenacious made it to 380lbs in the BladeHQ test:
https://youtu.be/4KmHfbG7z7g

While the Tatanka made it 361 in the CS test.

[demoncase]

I've done frankly 100% Special Olympics stuff with my Delica down the years-


not trying to make you feel bad, but I am sure you could have picked a better analogy than "Special Olympics". I know I am not the only special needs parent on this forum.

Apologies- Wasn't meant in the perjorative sense (Being congenitally blind in one eye myself)

Duly edited

[demoncase]

I've done frankly 100% Special Olympics stuff with my Delica down the years-


not trying to make you feel bad, but I am sure you could have picked a better analogy than "Special Olympics". I know I am not the only special needs parent on this forum.

I agree, demoncase would you mind editing that post?

Further apologies- done.

[demoncase]

I'm still waiting to understand why "ultimate" lock-strength is the measurement by which some folks base their opinion of which is the best folding knife.....

Because some folks always maintain that a folder is a "pre-broken" knife. Now when someone comes up with a folder that transcends that description, those same folks will find a way to dismiss the facts(and conveniently ignore their previous pronouncements)...

I would say though that that posting shows what kind of class some people have.

Yeah, I've heard that sentiment many times before and I can certainly understand the perspective- if not agree with it. To expand my thinking:
But if ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone bother carrying a folding knife at all?...
If Ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone buy a slipjoint?
Where does that leave probably the most famous and numerous folding knife in the world- the traditional Swiss Army Knife?...

I'll be honest- If the Tatanka had 'won' this test against the CS, I wouldn't have even bothered passing comment- as, like I say, ultimate strength isn't what I truly care about when I open my wallet for a new folding knife.....To my eye, it looked to be a fair test and the outcome is valid- for the given value that you give the data- Like I've said: if that ultimate strength figure matters most to you as a buyer, this test is your answer.

If as a buyer you're chosing between a Voyager and a Tatanka on the other factors of what makes a good folder, this test doesn't help you at all.

For me; There's dozen other factors that I judge a folder by for 'best'- ease of deployment, ease of lock use, ergonomics, aesthetics, fitness for purpose, ease of carry in the pocket, steel 'sexiness', how it fits in my collection and so on. Unmeasureables basically.

I assume automatically (maybe naively) that a well made locking folder from Spyderco- or indeed any of the reputable folding knife manufacturers like CS, Sog or similar- will give me a lock solid enough for the intended sensible limits of use for that knife.....If I decide to use my folder as an impromptu 'felling axe', tackhammer or climbing piton and it fails- should I be looking to the design of the knife or the hand that's holding it as the root cause?

If you've ever seen the old card game of 'Top Trumps' then even at a young age we all learn that chosing the car/plane/boat etc that's 1mph faster than all the others 'wins the game'...
Now, CS's marketing has been historically focused on 'ultimate strength- it's their 'killer app''- I can fully understand why that works for them, and I can see why some folks cleave to those figures as validation that CS are "best", when someone falls into the trap of declaring a particular brand as best.....Best for me isn't best for you- and it'd be a very strange world if we all liked the same things.

It's like that old marketing claim of "Sharpest"- and we've seen the kind of discussions-turned-to-full-on-flame-wars that word brings about. :eek:

[kennethsime]

I'm not surprised that CS produced a video like this.

If I found myself in a situation where I needed a knife of that size and caliber, I'd take the Tatanka any day; that said, I'm happy with my PM2 for pretty much any job.

[Bodog]

I thought the Tatanka used VG-10 steel?

Sorry, I misspoke when I said s30v. You're correct.

[chuck_roxas45]

Yeah, I've heard that sentiment many times before and I can certainly understand the perspective- if not agree with it. To expand my thinking:
But if ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone bother carrying a folding knife at all?...
If Ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone buy a slipjoint?
Where does that leave probably the most famous and numerous folding knife in the world- the traditional Swiss Army Knife?...

That's really not a valid argument. Andrew is testing for ultimate lock strength but I'm not saying that ultimate strength is all that matters in a folder.

About why carry a strong folder? Maybe fixed blades are inconvenient or whatever reason the user has. It really is none of your business why he chooses to carry a folder, whatever kind of folder he chooses to carry as long as he's within the law.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that the testing is for just one parameter of a knife's specifications. You drag all sorts of irrelevancies into your objection of the test.

What's does a dyno test your car for? Horsepower and torque, no? Does that mean that that's all that matters?

Whether or not you agree with testing for ultimate lock strength, you can't escape the fact that that was what the test was for and it was done in a way where most of the variables were eliminated.

[demoncase]

Yeah, I've heard that sentiment many times before and I can certainly understand the perspective- if not agree with it. To expand my thinking:
But if ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone bother carrying a folding knife at all?...
If Ultimate strength is all that matters, why would anyone buy a slipjoint?
Where does that leave probably the most famous and numerous folding knife in the world- the traditional Swiss Army Knife?...

That's really not a valid argument. Andrew is testing for ultimate lock strength but I'm not saying that ultimate strength is all that matters in a folder.

About why carry a strong folder? Maybe fixed blades are inconvenient or whatever reason the user has. It really is none of your business why he chooses to carry a folder, whatever kind of folder he chooses to carry as long as he's within the law.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that the testing is for just one parameter of a knife's specifications. You drag all sorts of irrelevancies into your objection of the test.

What's does a dyno test your car for? Horsepower and torque, no? Does that mean that that's all that matters?

Whether or not you agree with testing for ultimate lock strength, you can't escape the fact that that was what the test was for and it was done in a way where most of the variables were eliminated.

I don't recall telling anyone what to carry or not to carry....If you can point out where I did, then I apologise as that was not the intent.

I feel we are arguing the same point, and I apologise if I've caused any consternation-
I am not disagreeing with you about the test or lock strength per se
I am not objecting to the test in any way- I think it is both fair AND valid.

The point I'm making is that ultimate lock strength doesn't matter to me...If it matters to you or Andrew or anyone else then good on ya- go for it, carry what makes you happy.

All I was doing was talking around the concept of "If lock strength is what matters the most, why not avoid the problem altogether with a fixed blade?" to it's ultimate conclusion....If you (or whomever) decides they need (or want) the strongest locking folder instead, then again- good on ya, go for it.

That's just not to my entirely subjective and non-measurable personal taste....And, yes, my personal tastes are irrelevant to you and anyone else. I was just voicing my opinion....Last I checked, provided Shiny Footprints are left and we follow board rules, that's perfectly acceptable on this board

[chuck_roxas45]

The point I'm making is that ultimate lock strength doesn't matter to me...If it matters to you or Andrew or anyone else then good on ya- go for it, carry what makes you happy.

Don't worry, I do but the thing with that statement is that you think I'm arguing with you because I prefer those kinds of folders which isn't the case at all. I am arguing with you because I like honest tests and data. We can never have enough data. What I don't like is people trivializing and dismissing tests because they don't happen to dovetail with their opinions. What's more, the strawman of "proper knife use" is often brought out in these discussions. Are you all the final authority of what knives should be used for?

[Surfingringo]

Cool test. Never owned a cold steel but I've always heard they make a good lock. Watching this test actually made me want to give one a try. Not that I actually have any need for a stronger lock, but I want stuff that I dont "need" all the time. :). Anyway I actually went and looked through all the CS designs to see if any of them worked for me and....meh, not so much. Oh well, guess I'll just have to make do with my flimsy ole compression and ball bearing locks. Hehe :p

[demoncase]

The point I'm making is that ultimate lock strength doesn't matter to me...If it matters to you or Andrew or anyone else then good on ya- go for it, carry what makes you happy.

Don't worry, I do but the thing with that statement is that you think I'm arguing with you because I prefer those kinds of folders which isn't the case at all. I am arguing with you because I like honest tests and data. We can never have enough data. What I don't like is people trivializing and dismissing tests because they don't happen to dovetail with their opinions. What's more, the strawman of "proper knife use" is often brought out in these discussions. Are you all the final authority of what knives should be used for?

Of course I'm not the final authority on anything- let alone knife choice or use....To reiterate, I subscribe to Voltaire's view on the subject: "Weed your own garden" :)

I like honest tests and data too- My opinion has no impact on your enjoyment (or otherwise) of the test in question.....
Your opinion that I'm not allowed to express my opinion is no more or less valid than my opinion that the results don't matter to me.

If you don't like people 'trivialising and dismissing' things on the internet, I think you might be somewhat out of luck

[chuck_roxas45]

Of course I'm not the final authority on anything- let alone knife choice or use....To reiterate, I subscribe to Voltaire's view on the subject: "Weed your own garden" :)

I like honest tests and data too- My opinion has no impact on your enjoyment (or otherwise) of the test in question.....
Your opinion that I'm not allowed to express my opinion is no more or less valid than my opinion that the results don't matter to me.

If you don't like people 'trivialising and dismissing' things on the internet, I think you might be somewhat out of luck

Fortunately, I can argue with one of the people who tend to do that. That's what I'm doing now. I never said you couldn't express your opinion. You just raised up points that I knocked down.

Congratulations on diverting the issue to a personal one. :)

[MattM68]

What? Why would you strongly prefer a weaker lock?

I would never prefer a lock for being inherently weaker, but I like a lock that's easier to manipulate. The compression lock is one of the strongest locks Spyderco uses. It opens fast, closes extremely easy with just 1 hand, and it is plenty strong enough for my uses.

I really don't want to argue about lock strength, and while I do appreciate a good, strong lock, I personally have no need for a lock like the Triad. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just feel that any lock will be strong enough for regular use, and a little bit of abuse.

Matt

[Johnnie1801]

What? Why would you strongly prefer a weaker lock?

I would never prefer a lock for being inherently weaker, but I like a lock that's easier to manipulate. The compression lock is one of the strongest locks Spyderco uses. It opens fast, closes extremely easy with just 1 hand, and it is plenty strong enough for my uses.

I really don't want to argue about lock strength, and while I do appreciate a good, strong lock, I personally have no need for a lock like the Triad. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just feel that any lock will be strong enough for regular use, and a little bit of abuse.

Matt

Don't worry about it Matt, just buy what you are comfortable with and if that happens to be a Spyderco then at least you know you are buying a product that comes from a company with integrity.

Test results aside, this video is just a b/s attempt at self promotion at the expense of a competitor. Well done Cold Steel, you have a great lock but then again that's about all you have..

[flipe8]

Looks to me like both did very well , with CS getting the nod in this video. It's my hope Spyderco will produce a couple knives using the Power Lock that are more modestly sized in the near future.

[PWork]

I didn't make it through the "spine whack" test. I generally find the back of a knife blade to be a poor substitute for a hammer :rolleyes: and have no desire to watch another destruction video that proves little to nothing of real value to me.

[bearfacedkiller]

A lot of this comes down to the personality of the companies. Without saying wether one is better than the other they certainly do have different marketing approaches and different design philosophies. Cold Steel's torture test YouTube videos have just always seemed gimmicky to me. I know they make a quality product as I have handled a few of their folders and they seemed well built. In the end I (and many others on this forum) are attracted to Spyderco because we like their designs, their marketing and the personality of the Spydercrew. Cold steel has a different way of selling knives and it works for their customers. Sal always says, "not better, just different". This applies here too. Different strokes for different folks. Lynn does things his way for his customers and it works and Sal does things his way for his customers and it works. I don't see a problem even if I think both of these knives are just plain silly.

Maybe they could have ponied up some real dough and made the test more valid by doing it with 20 knives, 10 of each model, just in case there was a lemon. :eek: The standard deviation would be nice to know as well.

[araneae]

Well, if those tests mean anything to you, enjoy. This just highlights the spirit/values/style of the 2 companies.

I will point out that while the tatanka was doing the weight bearing test, we never saw the weights, but the CS showed them several times. Also, their math on costs is fuzzy at best saying the Tatanka was $220+ more expensive. Doing a very quick amazon search shows a $125 difference, which is a lot, but still not close to their claim in the video.