Spyderco Forums

@Wartstein - I was simply stating my opinion. I was not trying to incite a passionate discussion.

If I’m interpreting your response correctly, it does not sound like you understood what I was saying. (Apparently no one ever does though, so please don’t take that the wrong way. It’s a “me” problem.) I’ll amend my previous post to, hopefully, make it more clear.

I love the chap. Fancy handles are nice but I like frn. I would love one in s90v or s110v and frn.

However, I recently got Sage 5 and it is basically chaparral XL (or mini manix) with compression lock. As of now, it kicked both the chaparral and the native from my rotation.

I still would get another chap if it comes in an interesting variation.

Mat_ski wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:30 pm

...
However, I recently got Sage 5 and it is basically chaparral XL (or mini manix) with compression lock. As of now, it kicked both the chaparral and the native from my rotation.
...

I find myself in a similar situation on the Chap. I like it but I like the Delica 4 and Sage 5 handles better in use, and if I need to be more discreet/non-threatening than the Delica I probably want the Ladybug or Urban or most likely a traditional pattern slipjoint. The Delica doesn't give up cutting performance in my mind either; yeah it's a half mm thicker but it's also longer.

This leaves the Chap without much of a niche to fill for me and I don't end up carrying it much as a result.

Mushroom wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:45 pm

@Wartstein - I was simply stating my opinion. I was not trying to incite a passionate discussion.

If I’m interpreting your response correctly, it does not sound like you understood what I was saying. (Apparently no one ever does though, so please don’t take that the wrong way. It’s a “me” problem.) I’ll amend my previous post to, hopefully, make it more clear.

Sure, all good... actually this is what we all do here: Stating our opinions, and then someone might (or not) react, agree, share a partly or completely different opinion,... sometimes, if both want to, this leads to a discussion, sometimes not. All good, as said.

I do think I got what you were saying but of course I could be wrong.
Basically you´d like that the Chap stayed true to ist original concept, and I figure IF one wants more variants combining the uniqe Chap features (no other Spydie does that so far) for you this should rather happen in a new model.

Anyway, no need to discuss this! We´ve both stated our opinions, both are valid and fine.

Skywalker wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:46 pm

Mat_ski wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:30 pm

I find myself in a similar situation on the Chap. I like it but I like the Delica 4 and Sage 5 handles better in use, and if I need to be more discreet/non-threatening than the Delica I probably want the Ladybug or Urban or most likely a traditional pattern slipjoint. The Delica doesn't give up cutting performance in my mind either; yeah it's a half mm thicker but it's also longer.

This leaves the Chap without much of a niche to fill for me and I don't end up carrying it much as a result.

I get what you mean, especially that the Delica ffg is a great cutter too (percentagewise its blade stock is 25 % thicker at the base than the Chaps, but as you say: The longer blade and (thus) more tapering relativizes that again).

And yes, in prolongued use the thicker Delica or Sage handle will most likely be more comfortable.

So the niche the Chap fills is not a niche everyone needs to be filled in their lineup or perhaps not that often!
On the flipside: For those who DO want that niche to be filled, there really only is the Chap: Very thin and very short carry for the blade length, 2mm ffg blade and still almost a Native length cutting edge in a knife that is light, but extremely solidly built (internal stop pin. "All metal" (liners, lockbar, backspacer))

The Chap in closed length (91 mm) is really closer to a DFly (85mm) or Lil Native (88mm) and really not much longer than those, than to a Delica (108 mm) or Sage (106 mm), thinner than all of those, but offers a ton of blade for that.

I may share three old comparison pics I still have, cause they might be of interest to some not too familiar with the Chap:

1) Chap compared to a Dfly in closed length: Really not that longer, but almost a Native cutting edge (the blade/edge to handle ration is much better in the Chap than in the Dfly

2.) Chap closed compared to Delica closed: Chap an a lot shorter (and a lot thinner....) carry

3.) Grip area Chap (WITH choil!) compared to grip area Manix (BEHIND the choil!): Chap actually with overall more grip area than a Manix (or PM2) has behind the choil. Just to show that if using the choil the tiny Chap has a good amount of grip area

@Wartstein I still believe there is a misunderstanding. I was only
talking about the Chaparral and Chaparral LW, not a new model.

Chaparral = No changes except handle material and finish.

Chaparral LW = A departure from the original series - fair game to change whatever they want.

Again, I’m not trying to tell Spyderco what to do, I’m just expressing my own personal preference.

The Chaparral is the best small pocket knife Spyderco makes. The handle is a little thin compared to the height, but that can be fixed by a new set of scales if it bugs anyone. Sweet knife. I would like to see a steel change to SPY27.

Does the FRN version have stainless steel liners?

THG wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:23 am

Does the FRN version have stainless steel liners?

Yes, it does. It has a steel backspacer too.

I don't have a strong opinion on a steel change to the Chaparral. Any steel that Spyderco would choose to use on the model is AOK with me. For its intended use as a gentleman's knife, CTS XHP is perfectly fine. I have read here and there that XHP was discontinued, but it's always people saying that which I've seen, not Carpenter.

I am really looking forward to the serrated FRN Chaparral.

I'd like to see more steels for the Chaparral since it's one of my favorite knives. It's an exquisite, near-perfect design. Any or all of K390, S90V, SPY 27 and MagnaCut would be great. If Spyderco chose FRN rather than an exotic scale material, that would be fine. FRN is nice as is or, like Doc Dan said, aftermarket scales are available for the FRN variant.

A HIC or Rex121 Chaparral would really spice the line up and get people interested.

Coastal wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:27 pm

I'd like to see more steels for the Chaparral since it's one of my favorite knives. It's an exquisite, near-perfect design. Any or all of K390, S90V, SPY 27 and MagnaCut would be great. If Spyderco chose FRN rather than an exotic scale material, that would be fine. FRN is nice as is or, like Doc Dan said, aftermarket scales are available for the FRN variant.

Yeah. I think the smaller blades pair well with the harder, less tough steels. In a smaller knife I'm not too likely to "stress" the blade much. I don't give the Chap brutal tasks (though Wartstein would remind me I could if I wanted to).

I think K390 or 15V or S90V or S110V or a similar ultra strong/hard steel would be dandy in the Chap.

RamZar wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:44 pm

Sharp Guy wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:25 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:26 pm

It seems like Spyderco has given up on introducing new handle materials which was one of the original missions of the Chaparral line. The last Chaparral with a new handle material was Birdseye Maple which was at dealers in January 2021. Perhaps like the Sage line, we’ll soon end up with just FRN scales for the Chaparral line as well due to the price. That’ll be a shame.

Why would you just assume that? You know Sal always says they have a lot going on there. Maybe there's just other projects that have a higher priority

I don't have time to search through catalogs or Spydiewiki, how long was it between Rafir Noble and the handle material prior to that? Quite awhile I imagine

I say that because they discontinued two Chaparral models in August 2023 and then announced another FRN model in October 2023.

The Sage line went along the same path, that is, only two FRN models remain (S30V & Maxamet) and two more FRN models are upcoming (SPY27 & REX121). Sage used to showcase different locking mechanisms and additionally came with different handle materials. Now, it’s just Compression Lock and just FRN.

I confess to feeling a bit disturbed when the Chap and Sage series each began showing signs of departing from trajectories that advertising copy led me to expect: Chaps featuring different handle-materials around XHP, Sages featuring different locks on S30V.

I mean, why the Sage3 redux in a different handle-material, and why a Sage1 redux in a non-standard blade-steel? And why did Sal say on numerous occasions that he’d consider Chaps in non-standard blade-steels?

It now seems to me that each series has reached a fork in the road where one fork allows for combinations the Glessers did not originally intend.

In my effort to get comfortable with the zigs that I expected to be zags, I learned an interesting thing about genomes from my daughter.

Epigenetics can silence a gene that has been encoded in a strand of DNA and offer a different gene to be expressed. This substitution does not change the “model” overall, but gives it something not in the original “code” to express.

So, I’m now on board with the imminent offerings of Chaps and Sages in blade-steels that will be wrapped in a color-filled FRN pattern I really like. Whatever materializes, there will be no mistaking what the model is. My M4 and Maxamet Sage5s are just that.

And, so far as I know, the original intent, as frozen in my Chap1-5 and Sage1-5 originals, has not been abandoned. Eventually, there still could be a Chap12 or a Sage9, even while branches off the Chap5 and Sage5 continue to grow.

Hi Wrdwrght,

Interesting observation. Yes, the market has spoketh, and we work for you. The Kopa, Sage and Chaparral series were all ideas of mine that I thought might have had longer term success.

The Kopa series ran into problems with the maker not being confident to use all of the handle materials I had planned. It was a limited run of each material which worked well until we hit that wall. Now they are a hard to find collectable, and quite expensive when you can find one.

The Sage series, likewise, ran into issues with capacity of the maker and slowing of sales with earlier locks. I probably should have made them a limited series, like the Kopa, but I felt the Sage design (pattern) had more appeal than just for locks. So while we will continue to add various locks when we can (I'm testing one right now), we will also offer the design in variations that you are requesting. That was one of the reasons for the FRN version, which permits steels and color variations, in a popular lock.

The Chaparral series offered some pretty classy, in my opinion handles, like the machined Titanium, and the Sun/Moon version (which was a repeat of the Solo Sun/Moon) concept. But again, I probably should have offered it in limited quantities, which still would have disco'd models. But we also ended up with an FRN version to utilize the design with more versions in steels and color, per your requests..

sal

Thanks, Sal, for shedding some light on some decisions that Spyderco has taken. Reasonable and reassuring, as usual.

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:46 pm

The Sage series, likewise, ran into issues with capacity of the maker and slowing of sales with earlier locks. I probably should have made them a limited series, like the Kopa, but I felt the Sage design (pattern) had more appeal than just for locks. So while we will continue to add various locks when we can (I'm testing one right now), we will also offer the design in variations that you are requesting. That was one of the reasons for the FRN version, which permits steels and color variations, in a popular lock.

It’ll be great to see a new locking mechanism in a Sage model. The last one was Sage 5 Compression Lock in 2016. Perhaps a Button Lock or Crossbar (Axis) Lock or even a non-locking one?

— Sage 1 Liner Lock - 2008
— Sage 2 Reeve Integral Lock - 2009
— Sage 3 Bolt Action Lock - 2011
— Sage 4 Mid-Back Lock - 2012
— Sage 5 Compression Lock - 2016

sal wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:28 am

Hi Warstein,

Regarding the future of models, my crystal ball needs glasses. The success of a model, to keep it in the line, is a matter of demand. There are a few exceptions made for law enforcement, but in general, if the market does not want it enough to support the inventory, then it has to go. That doesn't mean it's a bad product, design or poor quality, it just means the market to support it is not large enough. (A lesson for you entrepreneurs).

If we end up with other steels, it will be in the FRN model. I would like your thoughts on that.

TL;DR: 1. New scale color that stands out, 2. Different steel that gets the market's attention, 3. Make it easier to swap on aftermarket scales - let the aftermarket be the handle material test bed.

Redesign the Chaparral LW. Take a look what Ben Petersen / Knafs is doing. Make it where the liners are hold all the internals together and the scales are just scales that are "hot swappable" for lack of a better term. Share the files so the community can 3D print their own scales. Make it stand out from the factory - no more black or gray plastic to get lost. With so many colors already allocated to dealer and distributor exclusives maybe do something like FRN in Spyderco Red with black hardware.

Even as it is now, Ripp's Garage Tech offers Chaparral scales in over 20 different varieties of micarta, 5 colors of G10, amber translucent Ultem, and black Ultem. They then offer 5 different texture patterns on those materials.

RE: Steels, move on from XHP. It's one of the least corrosion resistant steels marketed as stainless on the market. Part of me says BD1N to keep cost down. Another part of me says something like Magnacut or M390 (or 204P or 20CV) that's highly corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen on ceramic rods, and has good edge retention.

ugaarguy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:26 pm

Even as it is now, Ripp's Garage Tech offers Chaparral scales in over 20 different varieties of micarta, 5 colors of G10, amber translucent Ultem, and black Ultem. They then offer 5 different texture patterns on those materials.

The scales from Ripp’s Garage Tech look great! Here’s the G-10 ones:



On a side note, RGT says: “**LOCTITE is NOT recommended with Ultem scales, as it WILL cause cracking**”!

ugaarguy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:26 pm

RE: Steels, move on from XHP. It's one of the least corrosion resistant steels marketed as stainless on the market. Part of me says BD1N to keep cost down. Another part of me says something like Magnacut or M390 (or 204P or 20CV) that's highly corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen on ceramic rods, and has good edge retention.

I strongly agree that the Chaparral line should move away from XHP to a much more stainless steel like M390/20CV or MagnaCut.

Larrin's Corrosion Resistance Test (New Steel is MagnaCut):