Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:50 pm**

Does 440C count as both an upgrade and a budget steel?

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:44 pm**

Pockets wrote:Does 440C count as both an upgrade and a budget steel?

Mainly in corrosion resistance. That said, 13.5% chromium is very stainless. There might be a slight toughness/edge retention difference but I truly don't think many would notice this. I sure wouldn't but that doesn't say much. :p

I'm all up for Spyderco switching to BD1. It supports Carpenter, is a USA steel (which is great for marketing), and I'm sure helps secure Spyderco's relationship with the foundry since they helped develop the steel as an American similar steel to Ginami-1. If their maker in China doesn't care what they use then it's a win-win-win.

If people want a Tenacious with DRASTICALLY different properties they should buy a different knife. That way the edge profile, ergonomics, and steel characteristics are a night and day difference (not necessarily improvement). Otherwise it's likely going to be a tasty placebo cocktail.

Just my guess though. Keeping it real, etc.

Posted: **Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:29 pm**

sal wrote:Hi Nick,

Timely question. Perhaps some history?

When we began working with Carpenter several years ago, I was working with Rick G. (now we're working with Jim M.) Great guys to work with. As we were helping to develop knife steels with Carpenter and testing them in our lab, Rick asked if there was something they could do for us? I asked for and got CTS-BD1. I wanted an American steel with the approximate chemistry of Gingami 1. We had plans to use it in our US plant for the more cost conscious models. We were using more and more expensive exotics and felt that we needed a good American made hard working ingot steel with good corrosion resistance. We also wanted to use an American steel in our China made models. We told them that if they made a good steel and we were using it in our Chinese models, others making knives in CHina would be encouraged to do the same. US exports of steel to China is a good thing and the knife industry gets a very good steel.

Carpenter invested a ton of time, energy and money to create the steel and Ron L. from Carpenter has been going back and forth to China setting up inventory and teaching makers to use the steel. Eric and I will be meeting with makers in a couple of weeks to begin BD1 useage.

I've been using a Chinese processed BD1 Mule for the past week in the kitchen, cardboard and carving. 58/59 and performing well. We'll keep you posted.

sal

Wow! I would be super stoked to see Byrd Knives in BD1 !

Posted: **Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:05 pm**

The 9cr in the Mule series was a good steel . I have two of those mules that I use quite frequently and they perform well.
It takes a nasty edge also. Doesn't matter to me what kind of steel they use as long as they have quality control standards up and the heat treat right.

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2013 3:43 am**

Tally-ho wrote:9Cr13MoV is stamped / engraved on the tang of the blade, yes, but the cutting edge retention is pretty short, so there is a great probability that the steel that is used is not what it is claimed to be, or if it really is 9Cr13MoV steel, its heat treatment is poorly done.

The chinese 9Cr18Mov steel’s composition is the closest (but not equal) to 440C, but some Enlan knives rebranded by Böker (for the Böker Magnum line) are described to be 440 steel on Böker's website.

The 8Cr13MoV knives are badged 440 by Boker. Schrade labels the 9Cr13MoV EL-08 as 440C. I think it's more a case of American onsellers just slapping a "near enough" label on them. The heat treatment might not be what it could be.

The cutting edge retention of the Enlan and Inron knives I tested are way under the 440C steel of the Böker Plus knives.

Navy knives are claimed by the manufacturer to be made with 440C steel but Puma which sell some exact same Navy knives rebranded under the Puma-tec line, are described to be 420 steel. Who's right, who's wrong ?
(N.B.: Puma is a reputable German manufacturer. I tend to trust this manufacturer, prior to any Chinese brand).

I did read somewhere that Chinese manufacturers go for a relatively soft heat treatment, something to do with prolonging machinery life in subsequent machining. From abuse videos I've seen on YouTube, the Inrons do seem to have made a greater effort though. Odd.

I'll compare my existing 8Cr knives with the Cara Cara I've ordered when it arrives.

Posted: **Mon May 13, 2013 8:07 am**

I was thinking about this and wondering: Does China manufacturer any good carbon steel/non stainless steels?

Posted: **Mon May 13, 2013 10:18 am**

Donut wrote:I was thinking about this and wondering: Does China manufacturer any good carbon steel/non stainless steels?

Almost every country has a high carbon equivalent of 1060, 1075, 1095, etc. Also spring steels for axles.

I wouldn't mind seeing a high carbon coated Tenacious. Maybe people would stop calling 8Cr "semi-stainless". Lol. :rolleyes:

Posted: **Mon May 13, 2013 1:12 pm**

1095 or 1060 sounds really good. I am thinking they would have to be sprints. I haven't seen a Byrd sprint yet, but Tenacious sounds great and would be an awesome candidate for a carbon steel.

Posted: **Mon May 13, 2013 1:19 pm**

Donut wrote:1095 or 1060 sounds really good. I am thinking they would have to be sprints. I haven't seen a Byrd sprint yet, but Tenacious sounds great and would be an awesome candidate for a carbon steel.

I'm with you. It should be cheap to produce too.

1200 piece Tenacious sprint would fly out the doors, imho.

Posted: **Wed May 15, 2013 1:25 pm**

Apparently you and I are the only ones who think so.

Posted: **Wed May 15, 2013 7:36 pm**

Donut wrote:Apparently you and I are the only ones who think so.

Yea, and ESEE but those start at $75 for a fixed blade without a handle. :)

1095 would be drastically different than 8Cr13Mov and affordable to boot. I would love to see Spyderco do a blade in this stuff on any basis. A sprint for $30-40? Sign me up. :D

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2013 1:31 pm**

I'd be cool with using a Byrd knife or Tenacious for a steel test bed.

1095 sounds like a good one.

I'm an ESEE fan, too. They provide me mostly what I'm looking for in fixed blades.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:00 pm**

It's kinda quiet in here.

D2 would be nice. :)

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:00 pm**

I suspect that many harder/tougher steels would hurt the price of the knives quite a bit - but BD1 seems to be a pretty decent steel in my experience (I have it on a UKPK) and a general upgrade on the China steels we've had. I personally had good results with the 3Cr and 8/9Cr steels - easy to get wicked sharp, though admittedly they do not hold nearly as wrong. I still carry byrds regularly and have been happy with them overall. I might not want to take a PE one in the woods for the week without a sharpener, but for regular day-to-day use I think they cut well and the knives I've owned with them offer a great value. BD1 sounds fine to me, and is often, in my opinion, somewhat underrated. China will catch up on steels or work out agreements with folks like Carpenter, and if the steels are available at a reasonable price in knives, I suspect we will see them. In the meantime, I love my byrds and intend to buy more (depending on my income, maybe more than my spydies).

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:01 pm**

Also, I could see 1095 in some knives. It can obviously take a mix of hardnesses and is time-tested. Not terribly corrosion-resistant but with that caveat, I'd be up for trying a byrd or :spyder: with it.

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:24 am**

What would happen if the China steel factories were asked to make a super steel or a steel comparable to say, S90V?

1. Would they not be able to make it?
2. Would they refuse to make it?
a. None of the people who work with steel seem to be willing or able to work with a steel like this.

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:58 pm**

The robust 8Cr13MoV blade is the latest progression of the Cara Cara. the blade's design is quite similar to that of a comet , exemplifying quality and persistance. it comes with a perfect grip and skeleton cover. light in weight, you can carry this amazing tool comfortably in the pockets.On the blade's spine is a group of crosshatching called jimping. Jimping enhances the thumb's grip on top of the blade making cutting slip-resistant. Available for the first time with a four-way clip that carries tip-up/tip down or left/right-handed, it attaches inside a pant's pocket where it rides deep and confidently. A finger choil enhances the ergonomic stainless steel handle adding comfort and control. Mid-positioned back lock has a David Boye cut away dent, a safety feature that allows tightly gripping the handle without unintentionally releasing the lock.

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:07 am**

Hi Kristen,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx for the review.

sal

Posted: **Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:23 am**

Another 1095 or 01 tool steel vote here!! That would be nice!!! John

Posted: **Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:45 pm**

We finally were able to get some models made with BD-1 and it was much more difficult that we anticipated. The Raven 2 and the Crow 2 (2 very nice pieces) are USA made BD-1 and now we're trying for a new Starling.

Some Chinese makers are starting to work with better steels and we'll see where 2016 goes.

sal

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Steel upgrades for byrds?

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