Tatanka vs Voyager lock strength test By Cold Steel

[Blerv]

I honestly cannot believe how neutral most of the people are on this issue. And I say most, because it is not some. Politeness is quite an attribute, but do not take it that far, to the point you end up being the advocate of the devil. Or with another analogy, a murderer's defender. Why could I state something like this?

Frankly, I completely lost you. It's poetic (I guess) but is so far from a thesis that I don't know where to agree or disagree.

So...

I believe that Cold Steel's tests are valid in that they are consistent and prove what they set out to accomplish. As for if the information is valid in consideration between the two models, that is another question completely.

* Is the Spyderco (or CS) ranked overall "superior" to the individual's preferences? Weight, price, aesthetics, cutting performance, ergonomics, etc.
* Are there any functional disadvantages to having the stronger lock (eg: lessened ease of operation)?
* If not, will the lock strength be sufficient when compared to other extreme locks? Wildsteer, Strider, or even a cheap fixed blade?

In my instance (and many others), Spyderco's lock strength in their medium-duty is more than sufficient while offering fluid mechanics and comfortable economics. The lessened cutting performance and extra weight the Tatanka offers over say an Endura is simply not worth the trade-off over superior lock strength. The MSRP and added weight are two more nails in it's coffin.

Lock strength is only needed once the lower ratings become a limitation. At that point one tool becomes "abused" and more importantly "unsafe" while the other is still operating within the spec of "normal wear and tear", both in safety and W&R concerns. In most cases picking a different tool for the job is the most logical path; even a 4"+ blade has marginal mass for chopping and not enough blade strength for heavy prying.

If each maker and it's customer base is happy with the tool and transaction that is all that matters. Something is always possible to be engineered faster, stronger, lighter, etc. These are strict values and by disregarding other categories can be defeated. Chasing the ceiling of performance by and large benefits the customer but at the extreme it's simply a catty game of "who is tougher?". A game I stopped concerning myself with in high school, with I guess exception to an occasional forum banter. :o

[sal]

Hi Polaris,

Welcome to our forum. thanx much for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I feel like you feel that we should be doing something about Lynn's marketing? Though I'm not sure what you think would be the "best" thing to to, other than ignore him. I've known Lynn for more than 30 years. This is his way of marketing. Our way is different. Blerv and Evil have been hangin' 'round here for a long time, I think their vision is sound. I'm open to answer your questions, though I think much wisdom has already been shown.

sal

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you for producing super-knives with super-great and excellent locks, Sal!

[Ankerson]

The problem that I see with any sort of testing in that if the people doing the actual testing are getting paid by the company then there might be some sort of bias.

I don't know about Cliff, but I can tell people that I don't get paid to test knives, I normally test what I get in to test.

So for those of us who don't get paid things can and do get expensive so testing large amounts of samples is out of the question as I am not a Millionaire so I can't afford to buy large numbers of the same model to run.

[PolarisDesu]

Hi Polaris,

Welcome to our forum. thanx much for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I feel like you feel that we should be doing something about Lynn's marketing? Though I'm not sure what you think would be the "best" thing to to, other than ignore him. I've known Lynn for more than 30 years. This is his way of marketing. Our way is different. Blerv and Evil have been hangin' 'round here for a long time, I think their vision is sound. I'm open to answer your questions, though I think much wisdom has already been shown.

sal

Note: ... It is amazing that the designer of the knife I carry suddenly replies ...

Ehmmm, I just wanted to point out than that marketing approach was not good, at least to my eyes; Thus, all this elaborate and polite approach to the issue was a little bit out of place for me. Of course I don't know any relations between the makers, I just exposed my opinion; There are no suggestions of any kind regarding what to do, it is not my business, but I still think I have the right to speak my mind and that was the reason for me to write it down.

[FCM415]

I honestly cannot believe how neutral most of the people are on this issue. And I say most, because it is not some. Politeness is quite an attribute, but do not take it that far, to the point you end up being the advocate of the devil. Or with another analogy, a murderer's defender. Why could I state something like this?

Frankly, I completely lost you. It's poetic (I guess) but is so far from a thesis that I don't know where to agree or disagree.

So...

I believe that Cold Steel's tests are valid in that they are consistent and prove what they set out to accomplish. As for if the information is valid in consideration between the two models, that is another question completely.

* Is the Spyderco (or CS) ranked overall "superior" to the individual's preferences? Weight, price, aesthetics, cutting performance, ergonomics, etc.
* Are there any functional disadvantages to having the stronger lock (eg: lessened ease of operation)?
* If not, will the lock strength be sufficient when compared to other extreme locks? Wildsteer, Strider, or even a cheap fixed blade?

In my instance (and many others), Spyderco's lock strength in their medium-duty is more than sufficient while offering fluid mechanics and comfortable economics. The lessened cutting performance and extra weight the Tatanka offers over say an Endura is simply not worth the trade-off over superior lock strength. The MSRP and added weight are two more nails in it's coffin.

Lock strength is only needed once the lower ratings become a limitation. At that point one tool becomes "abused" and more importantly "unsafe" while the other is still operating within the spec of "normal wear and tear", both in safety and W&R concerns. In most cases picking a different tool for the job is the most logical path; even a 4"+ blade has marginal mass for chopping and not enough blade strength for heavy prying.

If each maker and it's customer base is happy with the tool and transaction that is all that matters. Something is always possible to be engineered faster, stronger, lighter, etc. These are strict values and by disregarding other categories can be defeated. Chasing the ceiling of performance by and large benefits the customer but at the extreme it's simply a catty game of "who is tougher?". A game I stopped concerning myself with in high school, with I guess exception to an occasional forum banter. :o

Super spot on. Ive been saying these same things on here and as member Stays Sharp on Bladeforums in the maaaany debates there ever since CS picked up the pace with these tests....and as also stated, my main thing is, it is advertisement: You will never see a CS product lose on their published tests, it may be honest and accurate, but it is still propaganda. Everything conforms to match their rhetoric. Notice how that being lock strength is their strong point, it is overemphasized and force fed without speaking on the many other aspects of a folder, where in those instances, other brands are arguably superior.

[jalcon]

Poor form by CS in my opinion. Spyderco just puts out an excellent product, and trusts everything else will fall into place. Great companies worry about themselves, and not others, and let their product speak for itself. I have a lot more to say but...*shiny footprints*.

[sal]

Hi Polaris,

Thanx for the clarification. Also, I "suddenly" pop in a fair amount. I feel it is my responsibility to know what our customers are thinking.

Each knife company has it's "offerings". It might be low price, affordable innovation, very close tolerances, strong locks, etc. That's part of the competition. We've learned that we can make just about any lock as strong as we choose. We have a breaking machine that tests limits of parts and we use it regularly to be sure we're within our standard requirements for that part. It's more about materials, thicknesses, etc. than design.

sal

[bearfacedkiller]

Polaris, I think I understand your point of view although you are a little cryptic. I think what you are basically saying is the old saying "silence is acceptance" and I do believe that in many cases that is true. The thing you have to realize is that the personality of this forum is largely dictated by expectations set forth by Sal in both the thread that was linked to this thread as well as countless responses from Sal like the one in this thread. The expectation set for us is to try to always take the high road. Just like I expect people to behave a certain way in my home Sal expects us to behave a certain way in his. If it is his wish that we avoid partaking in any mudslinging then that is what we do. I think the majority of this forum is all in agreement in regards to this test and that is why it was not neccesary to really discuss it much.

[FCM415]

Also, Sal and Spyderco blowing this up will really lead to nowhere. Taking the high road and staying true to what has gotten them here is the way to go.

BTW, videos are especially aimed at "knife newcomers"... Knife guys who already know their lane won't change their tune simply because of these. Matter of fact, CS vids are laughed at and mocked by a good portion of the knife community. At best, it is entertainment. At worst, it's not very classy and quite disrespectful...destroying another brand's product has actually gotten them plenty of heat in other forums. They also got strongly criticized for filing a bogus suit against CRKT last year. So yes, things find a way to balance out on their own.

[PolarisDesu]

Polaris, I think I understand your point of view although you are a little cryptic. I think what you are basically saying is the old saying "silence is acceptance" and I do believe that in many cases that is true. The thing you have to realize is that the personality of this forum is largely dictated by expectations set forth by Sal in both the thread that was linked to this thread as well as countless responses from Sal like the one in this thread. The expectation set for us is to try to always take the high road. Just like I expect people to behave a certain way in my home Sal expects us to behave a certain way in his. If it is his wish that we avoid partaking in any mudslinging then that is what we do. I think the majority of this forum is all in agreement in regards to this test and that is why it was not neccesary to really discuss it much.

Yeah, just saw that indeed. And I am quite straightforward when I speak hehehehe, sorry if people misunderstood what I wanted to say. But it is nice to see feedback from all directions.

PS: 20° angle FTW!

[sal]

Kinda like current political ads.

sal

[Surfingringo]

Welcome to the forum PolarisDesu. I often find myself wishing that much of the outside world could conduct themselves with the same respect and courtesy that is so commonly found on this forum. Whatever is going on here, I'm in no hurry to change it and happy to see more of it. :)

[Evil D]

To be completely honest, if the tone of this forum wasn't what it is, and the wishes of Sal and Co. weren't for us to follow the shiny footprint path, I would definitely have much more blunt things to say about many topics including this one

[Ankerson]

Kinda like current political ads.

sal

Everything with a grain of salt and understanding what it really is. :spyder: :spyder:

Marketing, nothing more than that.

[dj moonbat]

To be completely honest, if the tone of this forum wasn't what it is, and the wishes of Sal and Co. weren't for us to follow the shiny footprint path, I would definitely have much more blunt things to say about many topics including this one

Instead, it's all sharp things, all the time.