What can be done to prevent tip damage?

[Vincent]

What can I do to prevent tip damage. It seems on some of my Spyderco's, Lil temp and Para now have broken tips. I mean I use them as normal as possible, as to what I consider normal. No I don't only cut computer paper and envelopes. Like today I was working on building a hover craft. So I was cutting a tire in half with my Para and I guess the rubber was just to tough as It took the tip with it. My Military has never had a broken tip but I think thats because its much longer. I even broke the tip on my strider sng.

what can I do?

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: switch to a sawz-all. I fear you ask too much of your knives. :spyder:

[Qship]

This might work for you:

http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=25-&C=C0972

Qship

[KSDbass]

^^ I find it ironic that it's pronounced "excessive"

[Vincent]

What am I supposed to carry that thing around lol. Im sure the NYC LEO's will love that.

As for asking to much from my knives. I really doubt that. I mean to think a Pocket knife that costs $100-$400 should only be used lightly and to only cut light paper and envelopes is ridiculous. The true reason I buy higher quality knives is due to locks and handles. Steels dont do much for me as I find most steels that top companies use to just all disappoint(s30v,VG-10,D 2, 154cm and others). I mean I used a cheap $10 Gerber for years that was made from there stainless steel and never had a tip break, never had chipping or anything alike.

[The Mastiff]

Vincent, if it's happening with different brands, and different steels what does that tell you? Because a knife is expensive doesn't mean the tip is able to handle prying, twisting, or applying lateral forces on it. All knives come with warnings about prying now.

I've never broken a tip in 38 years of knife use. Use the right tool for the job. If the correct tool doesn't exist, get out your file, or dremmel and make it. That is something I learned in armorers school. It's better than tearing stuff up. Joe

[Vincent]

Vincent, if it's happening with different brands, and different steels what does that tell you? Because a knife is expensive doesn't mean the tip is able to handle prying, twisting, or applying lateral forces on it. All knives come with warnings about prying now.

I've never broken a tip in 38 years of knife use. Use the right tool for the job. If the correct tool doesn't exist, get out your file, or dremmel and make it. That is something I learned in armorers school. It's better than tearing stuff up. Joe

tells me s30v is not that great of a steel.

[Padawan]

tells me s30v is not that great of a steel.

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but what it should tell you is that:

a) You're using the knife in a way that is was not intended to be used.

b) You don't understand or are unwilling to accept the trade-offs in the properties of various steels or blade grinds/shapes.

Blaming the steel isn't the answer here.

[Vincent]

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but what it should tell you is that:

a) You're using the knife in a way that is was not intended to be used.

b) You don't understand or are unwilling to accept the trade-offs in the properties of various steels or blade grinds/shapes.

Blaming the steel isn't the answer here.

hrm so a knife is not meant to cut a softer material like rubber.

[Ed Schempp]

If the tip is run off the ceramic at the tip the point will go to a radius. I tend to sharpen the tip to a 45 inclusive angle, this is from the point to .2 inches back on the edge. As the tip starts to move the edge up I relieve the back of the blade at the tip to strengthen the tip. This is like going from a D3 to D4 tip profile.

Steel is a compromise; generally the better it cuts the less ductile it is. 420 J2 will bend because it doesn't have enough Carbon to get very hard.

Rather than prying with your tip use the back of the blade as a wedge maybe with some torque to accomplish the same task...Take Care...Ed

[Bolster]

If the tip is run off the ceramic at the tip the point will go to a radius. I tend to sharpen the tip to a 45 inclusive angle, this is from the point to .2 inches back on the edge. As the tip starts to move the edge up I relieve the back of the blade at the tip to strengthen the tip. This is like going from a D3 to D4 tip profile.

I understand the theory, Ed, but I don't understand how to accomplish this. You're saying you sharpen tips at 45i and the rest of the blade at, perhaps, 30i or something, and you transition at .2 inches from the tip? Wonderful, but how do you do it? Or more accurately, how do I do it?

Also, I confess I don't understand the sentence, "As the tip starts...strengthen the tip." Say again please?

[Chucula]

Use the right tool for the job.

Nothing else to say here.

Ok...maybe one more thing: use disposable razor knives, like box cutters.

[Vincent]

Nothing else to say here.

Ok...maybe one more thing: use disposable razor knives, like box cutters.

if we all used the proper tool for the job Spyderco and every other knife company would be out of business. There is Not 1 use for a pocket knife that there is not a Proper tool for that can take its place.

[flipe8]

From the knives you described, I'd consider something with a more stout tip. A Delica IV would likely serve your intended uses quite well, or even a sheepsfoot blade. Maybe a tanto tip?

[tonyfromky]

I'd use a saw to cut a tire in half. Or some shears.

[Vincent]

I think many of you are missing the point. if I used the proper tool for every job I did, Id have a truck full of tools. Its unrealistic and I move around alot, im on a public bus right now. A pocket knife is a Versatile tool and I use it as one. Continually saying " Use the right tool for the job" is kinda crazy. As I pointed out before our pocket knives have absolutely no use.

Versatility's is the main word here. I'm pretty sure thats the reason the pocket knife was created. To fill in for other tools to make it easier on the user, so they don't have to carry 50 tools with them at all times. Im not talking abut stabbing concrete, im talking about cutting a tire which a cheap .15¢ knife would do. To me there is no proper use for a pocket knife as it is meant for versatility and its up to the user. If you feel slicing open a envelope is as far as a pocket knife should be used and anything above is abuse, then thats fine. But I feel they can be used for much more than that.




As to stout tips, thats a great selection. What other Spyderco's have bulky tips. I think they would suit me much better as the Para and Militarys tips are just way to vulnerable.

[cyberspyder]

I'd use a saw to cut a tire in half. Or some shears.

Exactly, either shears, or some hardware, BUT NOT A KNIFE.

[WORKER#9]

Dude..........

[Padawan]

hrm so a knife is not meant to cut a softer material like rubber.

You've broken a Para, a Lil Temp, and a Strider SNG. Obviously, the issue is not with the knives, but the way that they're being used. Again, I don't think anyone here is trying to be disrespectful or disparaging, but you posted a question looking for an answer, and the answer is that the blame should not be placed on the knives or the blade steel.

[markg]

Keep in mind tire manufactures have spent, what like a century, trying to come up with ways to keep nails, etc... out of tires. I consider a tire a difficult thing to be cutting, and would expect some damage to the blade. That being said...

Everything is a compromise. Case in point... I can give you a ceramic blade, that will cut and cut. Drop it on the ground and it will break. Yes, S30V is a premium steel. However what is premium about it? Edge retention, hardness? Make something hard and you can make it brittle. There are steels out there, in knives that will do some of what you are asking. For example, AUS6... It does not hold an edge anywhere near S30V, BUT... It seems to want to bend and not break. Looks like you need to find the blade profile and steel that meets your needs.

As an example. I had one of our kids, locked in their bedroom (lock jammed, and they were late for school). I tried to unlock it, disassemble it. It all failed. I got my Glock Entrenching tool (knife) and took the door down. Hacked out the doorknob, actually had to start and PRY the door frame off (it was really stuck, actually had to get the kid out the window! Yes, it was a memorable morning...) What did it do to the knife? It has some white paint on the tip. Now, it does not hold and edge as well as anything Spyderco makes, but I could beat it against a rock and it would survive. Now, not like you can carry it around daily...

I would never stick a Para Military into a tire. That tip is meant for soft things. Used defensively, or stick it into something soft, and it is great. A tire I would expect to kill it...

What knives does Spyderco make that should be better? Try the Manix, possibly the Chinook (not really sure, but as strange as it looks, that tip has pretty good metal behind it), I think maybe even the Native would stand up to some beating (and you can get two steel choices S30V, or VG-10 in the Native III).

Have you considered a multi-tool? Would that do some of the things you are asking?