Questions about using the Sharpmaker

[Skydog]

I used my new Sharpmaker for the first time today and have a few questions for clarification…

1) The instruction booklet says that for each step, you should give 20 strokes on each side (alternating strokes between the right and left stones for a total of 40 strokes). However, in the video, Sal seems to indicate that 20 total is enough. This is a pretty significant difference in number of strokes. Which is correct…20 or 40? I realize that it probably depends and that a more experienced sharpener would just know when to move to the next step. But for me as an inexperienced sharpener, which is better to use as a guideline...20 or 40?

2) In the booklet, it says that using the 30 degree angle slots are optional and should only be used if steps 1-4 at the 40 degree angle have failed to produce the desired results. It also says that this optional 30 degree step is used to remove shoulders from over sharpened knives. In the video Sal recommends using the 40 degree slots and only using the 30 degree angle about “every tenth time that you sharpen your knife.” However, I know from reading some of the prior threads on this topic that many forum members skip the 40 degree sharpening altogether and only use the 30 degree angle slots. So I’m a bit confused on this, and reading through those older threads only made me more confused.

3) As an inexperienced sharpener should I just stick to doing it exactly by the instructions for now and not try to mimic what more experienced sharpeners on the forum are doing?

Thank you!

[Deadboxhero]

I used my new Sharpmaker for the first time today and have a few questions for clarification…

1) The instruction booklet says that for each step, you should give 20 strokes on each side (alternating strokes between the right and left stones for a total of 40 strokes). However, in the video, Sal seems to indicate that 20 total is enough. This is a pretty significant difference in number of strokes. Which is correct…20 or 40? I realize that it probably depends and that a more experienced sharpener would just know when to move to the next step. But for me as an inexperienced sharpener, which is better to use as a guideline...20 or 40?

2) In the booklet, it says that using the 30 degree angle slots are optional and should only be used if steps 1-4 at the 40 degree angle have failed to produce the desired results. It also says that this optional 30 degree step is used to remove shoulders from over sharpened knives. In the video Sal recommends using the 40 degree slots and only using the 30 degree angle about “every tenth time that you sharpen your knife.” However, I know from reading some of the prior threads on this topic that many forum members skip the 40 degree sharpening altogether and only use the 30 degree angle slots. So I’m a bit confused on this, and reading through those older threads only made me more confused.

3) As an inexperienced sharpener should I just stick to doing it exactly by the instructions for now and not try to mimic what more experienced sharpeners on the forum are doing?

Thank you!

Yeah, don't get overwhelmed. Just start there and overtime with experience you'll naturally start branching out, but you can't do everything at once when you're just getting started.

[Skydog]

I used my new Sharpmaker for the first time today and have a few questions for clarification…

1) The instruction booklet says that for each step, you should give 20 strokes on each side (alternating strokes between the right and left stones for a total of 40 strokes). However, in the video, Sal seems to indicate that 20 total is enough. This is a pretty significant difference in number of strokes. Which is correct…20 or 40? I realize that it probably depends and that a more experienced sharpener would just know when to move to the next step. But for me as an inexperienced sharpener, which is better to use as a guideline...20 or 40?

2) In the booklet, it says that using the 30 degree angle slots are optional and should only be used if steps 1-4 at the 40 degree angle have failed to produce the desired results. It also says that this optional 30 degree step is used to remove shoulders from over sharpened knives. In the video Sal recommends using the 40 degree slots and only using the 30 degree angle about “every tenth time that you sharpen your knife.” However, I know from reading some of the prior threads on this topic that many forum members skip the 40 degree sharpening altogether and only use the 30 degree angle slots. So I’m a bit confused on this, and reading through those older threads only made me more confused.

3) As an inexperienced sharpener should I just stick to doing it exactly by the instructions for now and not try to mimic what more experienced sharpeners on the forum are doing?

Thank you!

Yeah, don't get overwhelmed. Just start there and overtime with experience you'll naturally start branching out, but you can't do everything at once when you're just getting started.

Thank you. Any thoughts on the 20 versus 40 strokes? Even if I try to just follow the instructions exactly there seems to be a contradiction between the book and the video, and that seems like a pretty big difference in the number of strokes.

[Deadboxhero]

[
Thank you. Any thoughts on the 20 versus 40 strokes? Even if I try to just follow the instructions exactly there seems to be a contradiction between the book and the video, and that seems like a pretty big difference in the number of strokes.

Don't get too fixated on the number.

Just pick one and go, It's not a significant factor for the sharp knife to have an exact, specific number of passes that's just there to give you an estimate.


Maybe you'll do 20 and it's not as sharp so then you do 20 more.

You'll get a lot further down the rabbit hole a lot sooner than you think, but for right now keep it simple, learn how to hold the knife steady and make even passes then start exploring and looking for tips for specific problems that come up. Sooner than you know it you'll be teaching others how to sharpen and geeking out on burrs and abrasives and angles like the rest of us edge freaks.

Have fun, and enjoy the journey.

[Mr_Whiskerz]

Don't overthink number of passes. Just do some, check it, and repeat as necessary. Some get a jeweler's loupe to look at their edges, I got a magnifying glass to look at mine.

The Sharpmaker is easy to use, you'll get a feel for it after sharpening a few knives. Get a strop too!

[sal]

Hi Skydog,

As mentioned, counting is only a guide. I would say start with the corner of the gray/brown stone and just continue to alternate strokes on the coarsest position until the two sides of the edge have "come together" (apexed). at that point, it should "catch your fingernail". Then down grit from there. In time, you'll have enough experience to set your own guides.

One of the "family" here is Vivi. Vivi only uses coarse stones on his Nitrogen steels. He likes the coarser edge. I usually don't use the forty at all. I sharpen at 30 for all of my Spydercos', and I usually end on the corner of the fine stone. Our steels can take it. 40 is a good starter for learning and it will work on all but the most obtuse angles. Did you watch the video? Did you get a magnifying loupe?

If the knife has a 35 degree edge, then sharpening on the 30 will take while because you are technically "re-profiling" or changing the angle of the edge and you will have to bring the shoulder down to the thinner angle, from 35 to 30. That's why I suggested a magnifying loupe. The Loupe allows you to See the actual edge more closely and you can tell by the "scratch patterns" on the edge whether you are hitting the edge or just the shoulder, or if you have a burr.

sal
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"Whatever the problem, education is the solution"

[JoviAl]

@Skydog I first picked up a Sharpmaker a little over a year ago and when I initially tried using it I was pressing may too hard and trying to go way too fast. “Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast” rings very true with the Sharpmaker in my experience.

[Deadboxhero]

If you get a loupe, quality glasses very important.
I recommend the Belomo 10x

You would think to get the cheaper illuminated ones but the glass quality is lower.

Also, you would think you would want the 20x but there is something called "depth of field" which is the size of the area you can get a clear picture of and with higher magnification you have a much narrower DOF.


If you don't want to buy a loupe, you can also just use a permanent marker to color the side of the bevel and see where the sharpie is being removed that will let you know where you are making contact on the stone and if you need to make adjustments.

You can remove the sharpie with rubbing alcohol or acetone.

[Sharp Guy]

This video from Surfingringo is pretty good

https://youtu.be/DI8lTj-F8gA&t=195s

[Wartstein]

This video from Surfingringo is pretty good

https://youtu.be/DI8lTj-F8gA&t=195s

.. Funny, I came here to share this exact video!

Though I think for Skydog being new to all of this it might take some explaining especially the "micro bevel thing":

So, @ Skydog, concerning "Microbevel":

Basically means (with a regular Sharpmaker):

- You set your actual edge at 30 degrees, so when it comes to the Sharpmaker work with the more acute setting till the apex over the whole edge gets "touched" and sharpened by the rods. You can see this with a loupe or via the sharpie method, and your Spydie might have an edge of around 30 right out of the box anway.

- As soon as your knife is actually and fully sharpened to 30 degrees, for the following touch ups / for keeping it sharp you then use the more obtuse, 40 degree setting: This will create an edge just at the very "bottom" of your 30 degree edge (actually will make it a bit more "obtuse" there) and just very little metal has to be removed, so touch ups can be done really quick, which is one advantage of "microbevelling".
The other would be that your edge gets more stable, less "fragile".
Though in my experience each Spydie in each steel I ever had can take 30 degrees easily, so for "stability" a microbevel is nothing I´d need. .

[Wartstein]

......
One of the "family" here is Vivi. Vivi only uses coarse stones on his Nitrogen steels. He likes the coarser edge. I usually don't use the forty at all. I sharpen at 30 for all of my Spydercos', and I usually end on the corner of the fine stone. Our steels can take it. 40 is a good starter for learning and it will work on all but the most obtuse angles. Did you watch the video? Did you get a magnifying loupe?
......

The Sharpmaker works great for me, and I really liked watching the instructional DVD - but as Sal said:
I think it shows one good approach for beginners, a way you will get results, but over time or even pretty soon you might modify the exact approach shown there to your own needs.

Using the two settings the SM offers more or less correctly (so if you more or less keep the angles) you can´t really mess up much, even more so since even the brown rods are really not that aggressive.

Perhaps the only thing I found a bit confusing in the dvd is that there it comes across like (at least it did for me) progressing to the finer stones is the way to get a (definitely) "sharper" edge - when actually you get a more "smooth" or "finer" edge.
Of course this can translate to the knife being or feeling sharper in certain tasks - a cut trough paper will feel smoother for example.
But as Sal pointed out: One might prefer a coarser, more "toothy" edge in other tasks.

Long story short: Your knife can actually be very sharp when "just" using the brown or even coarser rods (diamonds / CBN) - it is just a "different kind of sharp" than when it is finished on the white or even ultrafine rods.

Anyway: Don´t overthink it.
The Sharpmaker WILL give you a perfectly functional EDC knife (sharpness) by following the process shown in the DVD / booklet.
If you´re not happy :Just repeat (the process), or use only the browns to try out if an a bit coarser edge (not really coarse anyway) is something you like.

[Skydog]

Thank you to all who have responded...I appreciate all the great feedback and encouragement!

[xnmw]

I love the coarser edge the medium stone give me--all of my kitchen knives are at the sharpmaker angle now, and I touch them up on just the flats of the stones. Follow the video until you get a real feel for it, then you can roll your own depending on the edge you want. I've gotten the diamond stones and the extra-fine stones, the sharpmaker really does it all. Focus on keeping you hand steady and perfectly up and down and you're golden. The numbers aren't that scientific--you want to get to the apex on both sides and ensure you don't have a wire edge.

The time I've spent on the sharpmaker has helped me lock in to a angle for freehanding, finely sharpening serrations, etc. I got a KME in a moment of sharpener envy but the sharpmaker is still my most-used and favorite.

Medium stone, occasionally cleaned under the tap with a little Comet or Barkeeper's Friend, would be enough for me for life.

[Deadboxhero]

The sharpmaker is 46 years old (1978)


Model 202, a revised update over the 201. For context the current model in production is the 204.

Since Sal was a sharpener first, He had a very unique perspective that really went into the design DNA of his knives and why they are such high performance cutting tools. The sharpmaker even predates the first Spyderco folding knife (C01 worker) that revolutionized the knife industry in 1981.

And the legacy continues with a whole new generation of people learning how to sharpen so it's quite remarkable that such a simple and humble little tool continues on.


I wonder what it was like to be at the State Fair when the first sharpmaker was launched and to see Sal at his booth sharing about knife sharpening and the sharp maker and sharpening people's knives. I think that would have been interesting to go back and see since I don't believe there was any videos of it.

[DavidNM]

The sharpmaker is 46 years old (1978)


Model 202, a revised update over the 201. For context the current model in production is the 204.

Since Sal was a sharpener first, He had a very unique perspective that really went into the design DNA of his knives and why they are such high performance cutting tools. The sharpmaker even predates the first Spyderco folding knife (C01 worker) that revolutionized the knife industry in 1981.

And the legacy continues with a whole new generation of people learning how to sharpen so it's quite remarkable that such a simple and humble little tool continues on.


I wonder what it was like to be at the State Fair when the first sharpmaker was launched and to see Sal at his booth sharing about knife sharpening and the sharp maker and sharpening people's knives. I think that would have been interesting to go back and see since I don't believe there was any videos of it.

That this pretty similar to my Sharpmaker! The base on mine is a little wider. The base where it sits on the bench/table is the same width from one end to another. I believe mine is the 203 model. The plastic bag is long gone and it resides in a box now but I still use it.

[cabfrank]

Me too. Mine is really old, with only 40 degree slots. I keep meaning to get a new one, and.i just haven't yet.

[WilliamMunny]

I am not sure I can add a lot more but this is my recommendation for a beginner who just needs to maintain a sharp knife.

-Use the 40°. You will hit the apex (edge) of the knife with this angle, critical to getting a sharp edge and probably the main cause of frustration.

-The number of strokes can be steel dependent. A soft steel like VG-10 will need less strokes than harder steels like S30V or S90V. But 40 total is a good place to start.

-If you can’t smoothly cut paper when using a course stone (brown) switching to a fine (white) will not help.

-Use a marker on you edge to see where you are actually sharpening on your edge.


Finally look into stropping. It can bring a knife back to being sharp without needing to “sharpen” it. It will extend the life of your knife.

[GarageBoy]

The sharpmaker is 46 years old (1978)


Model 202, a revised update over the 201. For context the current model in production is the 204.

Since Sal was a sharpener first, He had a very unique perspective that really went into the design DNA of his knives and why they are such high performance cutting tools. The sharpmaker even predates the first Spyderco folding knife (C01 worker) that revolutionized the knife industry in 1981.

And the legacy continues with a whole new generation of people learning how to sharpen so it's quite remarkable that such a simple and humble little tool continues on.


I wonder what it was like to be at the State Fair when the first sharpmaker was launched and to see Sal at his booth sharing about knife sharpening and the sharp maker and sharpening people's knives. I think that would have been interesting to go back and see since I don't believe there was any videos of it.

As someone who has sharpened so many different knives in so many different steels, and have interacted with so many different knife users, what would your tweaks to the sharpmaker be?