EDC recommendation: Native 5 LW – S30V or SPY27?

[Fastidiotus]

Thank you for all the great feedback! I just placed an order for a Native 5 with SPY27 and a Shapemaker.

[bobnikon]

For just a touch more than the price of the Spy27, I would seriously consider the magnacut. The only drawback, which I don't actually consider it to be one, is the yellow scales. The beauty of the yellow scales is they are easy to see, but also really easy to Rit Dye if you want a different colour. And all the hardware is rust free. Very close second is LC200N, and the green scales are really sharp as is, but also take a darker colour well.

Both are quite easy to sharpen with the Sharp Maker, though I would get the cbn or diamond rods... just because. Especially if you have a bunch of other knives that you are going to sharpen, which you will eventually if not now, and great for the kitchen types too.

Edit:
Just saw that you ordered the Spy27. It is a great steel and a great gateway drug to all the other wonderful choices you will soon own.

[Skydog]

For just a touch more than the price of the Spy27, I would seriously consider the magnacut. The only drawback, which I don't actually consider it to be one, is the yellow scales. The beauty of the yellow scales is they are easy to see, but also really easy to Rit Dye if you want a different colour. And all the hardware is rust free. Very close second is LC200N, and the green scales are really sharp as is, but also take a darker colour well.

Both are quite easy to sharpen with the Sharp Maker, though I would get the cbn or diamond rods... just because. Especially if you have a bunch of other knives that you are going to sharpen, which you will eventually if not now, and great for the kitchen types too.

Edit:
Just saw that you ordered the Spy27. It is a great steel and a great gateway drug to all the other wonderful choices you will soon own.

Can you please elaborate on why I would need the cbn or diamond rods in addition to the rods that are already included with the Sharpmaker? I'm new to all of this and not familiar with all the different types of rods and what each specific type is used for. I do have several older knives (not Spydercos) with very dull blades that I would like to try to bring back to life at some point. But I also want to keep things as simple as possible until I get some experience with sharpening.

[chronovore]

... The Native 5 LW handle is basically all hot spot since they made the corners so sharp. It looks nice but does not feel in the hand for me.

I don't have a Native 5 so I can't speak to the specific ergonomics, but remember that a lot can be done with a little sandpaper. What started as annoyance mitigation for me has become a regular thing, where smoothing over crisp scale edges or pointy corners is just part of breaking in a new knife.

BTW, I'm not talking about finished metals (just in case that wasn't obvious). G10 and Micarta sand very well. FRN can take a little more care. As with any sanding, be wary not to inhale the dust.

[bobnikon]

Can you please elaborate on why I would need the cbn or diamond rods in addition to the rods that are already included with the Sharpmaker? I'm new to all of this and not familiar with all the different types of rods and what each specific type is used for. I do have several older knives (not Spydercos) with very dull blades that I would like to try to bring back to life at some point. But I also want to keep things as simple as possible until I get some experience with sharpening.

If you decide to change the edge angle on a knife it takes longer, though is still completely doable with the included stones. The CBN or Diamond just make for quicker work. Depending on how "toothy" a blade you like, they can also be the finishing stones. If you are repairing chips and rolls, they also make for a much more enjoyable process. And if you are doing a bunch of neglected kitchen knives they can cut the work time significantly.

[Skydog]

Can you please elaborate on why I would need the cbn or diamond rods in addition to the rods that are already included with the Sharpmaker? I'm new to all of this and not familiar with all the different types of rods and what each specific type is used for. I do have several older knives (not Spydercos) with very dull blades that I would like to try to bring back to life at some point. But I also want to keep things as simple as possible until I get some experience with sharpening.

If you decide to change the edge angle on a knife it takes longer, though is still completely doable with the included stones. The CBN or Diamond just make for quicker work. Depending on how "toothy" a blade you like, they can also be the finishing stones. If you are repairing chips and rolls, they also make for a much more enjoyable process. And if you are doing a bunch of neglected kitchen knives they can cut the work time significantly.

At this point in my very limited knowledge/experience, I don't even know enough to know if I would want to change the angle on a knife, or what "toothy" even means, or what rolls are, etc.? I am a complete novice. So...if I have a bunch of neglected kitchen knives or older very dull knives, are you saying it would be better to start out on the CBN and/or diamond rods before moving to the other rods (the ones included with the Sharpmaker)? And is it that I would need to use both the CBN and the diamond, or just one or the other?

[benben]

Get your new knife & Sharpmaker, watch Sal’s video….several times and it’ll all click, you’ll figure it out. With SPY27 you’ll be perfectly fine with the fine and medium rods that comes with the kit.

I’m not a sharpening guru, I sharpen everything on the Sharpmaker, serrated, carbon tool steels, my kitchen knives, everything. The key is maintaining the edge, don’t let it get dull and do touch ups often and you’ll have no problems. Plus you’ll enjoy it, I do!

[TkoK83Spy]

Skydog - I know it's a long thread, but take a glance in here during your free time. Will save you a lot of headaches and has probably every answer you'll need as you get started on sharpening.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84678

[Skydog]

Get your new knife & Sharpmaker, watch Sal’s video….several times and it’ll all click, you’ll figure it out. With SPY27 you’ll be perfectly fine with the fine and medium rods that comes with the kit.

I’m not a sharpening guru, I sharpen everything on the Sharpmaker, serrated, carbon tool steels, my kitchen knives, everything. The key is maintaining the edge, don’t let it get dull and do touch ups often and you’ll have no problems. Plus you’ll enjoy it, I do!

Thanks, benben...yeah, I'm sure I'll be fine with maintaining the new Spyderco with the Sharpmaker. However, I've got a few older knives (Buck, Cuda, Kershaw) that have been really neglected and are in pretty rough shape that I would like to revive. So I'm wandering if these will need anything above and beyond what I can do with the Sharpmaker.

[Skydog]

Skydog - I know it's a long thread, but take a glance in here during your free time. Will save you a lot of headaches and has probably every answer you'll need as you get started on sharpening.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84678

Thank you. I've actually been spending some time on that thread, but it seems to assume a certain level of experience/skill and grasp of the lingo that I have not obtained yet. Is there a sharpening 101 or sharpening for dummies thread?

[Wartstein]

At this point in my very limited knowledge/experience, I don't even know enough to know if I would want to change the angle on a knife, or what "toothy" even means, or what rolls are, etc.? I am a complete novice. So...if I have a bunch of neglected kitchen knives or older very dull knives, are you saying it would be better to start out on the CBN and/or diamond rods before moving to the other rods (the ones included with the Sharpmaker)? And is it that I would need to use both the CBN and the diamond, or just one or the other?

- If you are a "complete novice", the edge angle your Native comes with will be perfectly fine for you (and would also for most "advanced" folks).
- Some folks just like to give their knives a more acute edge angle, which will cut better, but also be more fragile.
Just imagine the apex (the very edge of the knife which one actually sharpens) as a V - shaped wedge. Now if you wanted to make that "V" "thinner" by reducing the angle the two arms of the "V" have to each other, you have to remove quite some material. This is basically like when you make an edge angle more acute.
The coarse CBN or diamond rods remove material quicker than the finer brown or white rods, and so really changing an edge angle works faster with the former rods.
! You really do NOT need that though for "just" keeping your Native sharp! Brown and white rods are perfectly suited for that!
And you can change an edge angle also with the brown rods - it will just take considerably longer.

- Chips and rolls: A chip is the kind of edge damage, where actually a small piece of the edge breaks out, while a roll is rather the kind of damage where a small part of the edge, well, "rolls" to one side or the other. Just by tendency chips rather happen on harder steels, rolls on softer ones.
Like when changing an edge angle, repairing both (which is actually not always mandatory if you ask me) normally means that quite some material has to be removed - and again, the coarser CBN or diamond rods do a quicker job here.
But also again: Brown and white rods are also harder than the steel, it would just take a lot more time to repair more severe damage with those.
In normal use I would not be worried much about chips and rolls - I use my folders pretty hard and was perfectly happy with "just" the regular sharpmaker (brown and white rods) for quite some time.
Really small chips imo do not matter in most cutting tasks, and will sharpen out eventually anyway.

- Toothy: Just a coarse edge. If you looked at it under a microscope, it would look more "serrated" or "saw like" than a smoother edge. In some (for me in many) tasks a toothy edge cuts better than a smooth one (for example when cutting a plastic bottle in half without penetrating it with the tip first :The smooth edge might not "bite", while the toothy edge "grabs" the material, "breaks" the surface and the cut will be easier)

The coarser the grit of your sharpening stone/rod (the one you finish the sharpening process!), the "toothier" the edge will be. So the CBN rods will give you a toothier edge than the browns, and the browns a toothier edge than the white rods.

- "Very old / very dull knives": I am afraid that YES, you´ll have a considerably easier time (resp. need LESS time) starting to work on those with CBN or diamond rods. The brown rods the sharpmaker kit comes with absolutely CAN do the job, but as explained above it will take more time (perhaps not THAT much more time cause "very old kitchen knives" tend to be made out of pretty soft steel).
Just imagine you´d want to level out an uneven surface with sandpaper: The initial steps will be quicker to do with very coarse sandpaper, and later on you would move to finer sandpaper. BUT :The finer sandpaper COULD do the job right from the beginning, it would just mean a lot more time and work.
Same with coarse and fine sharpening gear

- CBN vs Diamond; If you ever decide to get one of those: You really just need one (pair), NOT diamonds AND CBN, they should be pretty close in performance. I can´t really weigh in on this, since I only have the CBNs.
But they say that perhaps the diamonds are a tad more aggressive / coarser, while the CBNs last a bit longer - ?! Just what I seem to recall, don´t quote me on it.

[Skydog]

At this point in my very limited knowledge/experience, I don't even know enough to know if I would want to change the angle on a knife, or what "toothy" even means, or what rolls are, etc.? I am a complete novice. So...if I have a bunch of neglected kitchen knives or older very dull knives, are you saying it would be better to start out on the CBN and/or diamond rods before moving to the other rods (the ones included with the Sharpmaker)? And is it that I would need to use both the CBN and the diamond, or just one or the other?

- If you are a "complete novice", the edge angle your Native comes with will be perfectly fine for you (and would also for most "advanced" folks).
- Some folks just like to give their knives a more acute edge angle, which will cut better, but also be more fragile.
Just imagine the apex (the very edge of the knife which one actually sharpens) as a V - shaped wedge. Now if you wanted to make that "V" "thinner" by reducing the angle the two arms of the "V" have to each other, you have to remove quite some material. This is basically like when you make an edge angle more acute.
The coarse CBN or diamond rods remove material quicker than the finer brown or white rods, and so really changing an edge angle works faster with the former rods.
! You really do NOT need that though for "just" keeping your Native sharp! Brown and white rods are perfectly suited for that!
And you can change an edge angle also with the brown rods - it will just take considerably longer.

- Chips and rolls: A chip is the kind of edge damage, where actually a small piece of the edge breaks out, while a roll is rather the kind of damage where a small part of the edge, well, "rolls" to one side or the other. Just by tendency chips rather happen on harder steels, rolls on softer ones.
Like when changing an edge angle, repairing both (which is actually not always mandatory if you ask me) normally means that quite some material has to be removed - and again, the coarser CBN or diamond rods do a quicker job here.
But also again: Brown and white rods are also harder than the steel, it would just take a lot more time to repair more severe damage with those.
In normal use I would not be worried much about chips and rolls - I use my folders pretty hard and was perfectly happy with "just" the regular sharpmaker (brown and white rods) for quite some time.
Really small chips imo do not matter in most cutting tasks, and will sharpen out eventually anyway.

- Toothy: Just a coarse edge. If you looked at it under a microscope, it would look more "serrated" or "saw like" than a smoother edge. In some (for me in many) tasks a toothy edge cuts better than a smooth one (for example when cutting a plastic bottle in half without penetrating it with the tip first :The smooth edge might not "bite", while the toothy edge "grabs" the material, "breaks" the surface and the cut will be easier)

The coarser the grit of your sharpening stone/rod (the one you finish the sharpening process!), the "toothier" the edge will be. So the CBN rods will give you a toothier edge than the browns, and the browns a toothier edge than the white rods.

- "Very old / very dull knives": I am afraid that YES, you´ll have a considerably easier time (resp. need LESS time) starting to work on those with CBN or diamond rods. The brown rods the sharpmaker kit comes with absolutely CAN do the job, but as explained above it will take more time (perhaps not THAT much more time cause "very old kitchen knives" tend to be made out of pretty soft steel).
Just imagine you´d want to level out an uneven surface with sandpaper: The initial steps will be quicker to do with very coarse sandpaper, and later on you would move to finer sandpaper. BUT :The finer sandpaper COULD do the job right from the beginning, it would just mean a lot more time and work.
Same with coarse and fine sharpening gear

- CBN vs Diamond; If you ever decide to get one of those: You really just need one (pair), NOT diamonds AND CBN, they should be pretty close in performance. I can´t really weigh in on this, since I only have the CBNs.
But they say that perhaps the diamonds are a tad more aggressive / coarser, while the CBNs last a bit longer - ?! Just what I seem to recall, don´t quote me on it.

Wow...Thank you so much, Wartstein! I greatly appreciate the time and thought you put in to providing this very thorough answer to my questions. These are very hepful explanations, and I now have a better understanding just from reading your post. I can't wait to get my Sharpmaker and start practicing.

[Skydog]

My new Native with SPY27 (and my first-ever Spyderco purchase) just arrived earlier today. Unfortunately, the blade is not even close to being centered and it looks as if it might even be slightly bent/curved. I submitted a return request (online) to the the seller. I received an automated email saying they would review my request and get back to me within 3 business days. I also tried calling, but got a message saying that they "are currently experiencing technical difficulties and are unable to answer your call...". This is disappointing to say the least. This is my first Spyderco and my first venture into the world of quality knives, and so far it has not turned out as expected. However, I am willing to give the seller the opportunity to make it right with either an exchange or refund, so hopefully all goes well with their customer service.

[RustyIron]

Got pictures?

[Skydog]

Got pictures?

I do, but I'm not sure how to post them here? They are saved to my laptop as a .jpg image.

[Skydog]

I figured it out...
Notice in the first two photos that the blade is not centered (more space on the top side than the bottom side).
Notice in the third photo that something looks off where the jimping is, and the blade looks slightly bent to the left.
Notice in the fourth photo that the blade appears to have a slight bend/curve from right to left.

[TkoK83Spy]

You're looking way too hard into this. I suspect YouTube reviews had you looking for flaws?

[Skydog]

You're looking way too hard into this. I suspect YouTube reviews had you looking for flaws?

So...are you saying I'm being too picky? Is this typical Spyderco QC? If I send it back for an exchange, is it likely that the 2nd one will be similar?

And, no, this has nothing to do with YouTube. I guess I just expected more from a $150 knife.

[Jesla]

Nice looking knife. I have the same knife in s110v blade steel. You might be more satisfied going to a shop and checking the knife over personally before buying.

[Paraguy]

S30V and SPY27 aren't dramatically different in performance. However, one knife is black, and the other blue. What color do you think is cooler? That's the one you should go with.

This sums it up. Although I might add the spy 27 is more “special” or rare than s30v. NOT necessarily better.