C-60 Ayoob Campaign: No I Won't Shut Up

[JD Spydo]

Serrated 2nds still available...

Where?? From Spyderco Factory Outlet maybe? I would love to have a beater/factory second as a hard use blade. I think I could afford one or two more this upcoming pay day. This is the first I've heard of "seconds" being available in SE

[jwbnyc]

All gone.

[ladybug93]

i was tempted to buy one in the seconds sale to see if it would be better than my non-second snaggletooth.

[electro-static]

I bought a factory second from the sale, it was $100 and I am curious to see what serrations have to offer. I think there were a lot available, they were in stock after I bought mine. I know that there were some teething issues with the serrations so I can’t help but think that the serrations might be jacked up.

Who would like to see a Salt LW version of the ayoob in magna-cut?

[Jurmuscle]

i was tempted to buy one in the seconds sale to see if it would be better than my non-second snaggletooth.

I wonder if all the seconds are returned snaggletooth models.

[cabfrank]

A guess on my part, but I do assume some of the seconds are due to snaggleteeth.

[aicolainen]

My interest in the Ayoob is quite recent and the snaggletooth issue, whatever that is, is not something I’m not familiar with. Could someone be kind enough to explain?

[p_atrick]

My interest in the Ayoob is quite recent and the snaggletooth issue, whatever that is, is not something I’m not familiar with. Could someone be kind enough to explain?

The name was given to the odd shape of some of the serrations towards the tip of the knife. If you go back a ways in this thread, you will see lots of photos/discussion about the shape.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87077&start=2620#p1655216

[Spyderwebs]

Count me in for an ayoob Salt, but not in a bright color. The bright colors of the salts don't jive with me at all.

Re the snaggletooth, I have a "1st quality" with one and in use it's almost a feature, not a flaw. For opening things like boxes or zipties it provides a wonderful little hook that keeps the blade in the material. Whether it's there or not doesn't affect much IMO.

Also, the snaggletooth can be removed by steepening the tip grind.

The snaggletooth is the result from an overly blunt tip grind. Like 45* blunt. To sharpen the snaggletooth tip on the sharp maker you have to cock your wrist like 20° right. You can see that if the tip angle was decreased to ~ a normal 17-20°, the grind would transition smoothly into the first serrations and allow regular use of the 40° SM position.

So,
A. It's not much of a flaw, if a flaw at all
B. You can steepen the tip angle to get rid of it (but probably need a fixed guide system like a work sharp pro to do it accurately)

[ladybug93]

So,
A. It's not much of a flaw, if a flaw at all
B. You can steepen the tip angle to get rid of it (but probably need a fixed guide system like a work sharp pro to do it accurately)

a. it's absolutely a flaw. you've just adapted your usage to fit the flaw. finding a use for something that isn't right doesn't make it right, even if you like it.
b. exactly. it would take a new sharpening system (not everyone needs or has a guided system) and quite a bit of my time to fix a knife that cost over $200. that price point is one where we should expect better.


and, as i pointed out already, i was annoyed by the snaggletooth, but i wasn't really upset until the response. i will never think it's okay to push the subpar product out to the customer as if nothing is wrong and then provide a sob story as an excuse after the fact. even if the story came first and we knew going in that spyderco was trying to help this factory that they have a history with get back on their feet, i think it would've been different, at least for me. but to hear that story as a way of getting people on board with sloppy qc is really poor business and service.



i'll say it again, since you can't have a negative opinion around here... i still like spyderco more than i don't. i still buy their knives more than any other company. i still recommend spyderco to most people that ask about knives and often show them whatever spydie i'm carrying. i still carry spyderco knives every day. this isn't about hating on spyderco... it's about a situation that was handled very poorly, while people come on here and pretend like everything is roses by saying it's not a flaw and/or it's easy to fix, so the customers that are unhappy are the problem. that's not constructive or helpful in any way to those customers, or to spyderco.

[aicolainen]

Thanks p_atrick and Spyderwebs,

The snaggletooth issue doesn’t seem like something I’d worry about. And I’ll be able to fix it if it does. It was a bit more worrisome to read that some have experienced rather obtuse SE edges >40deg. For my intended use, even that isn’t too annoying, but I’d really appreciate if it was 20deg or less. Just have to wait and see.

I’m not familiar with the backstory, but as laid out I find it hard to disagree with LB. That said, I’m knowingly buying a seconds.. so it’s reasonable to have lower expectations in my case. Yet I’m hoping for the best sample possible.

[vnvman]

So,
A. It's not much of a flaw, if a flaw at all
B. You can steepen the tip angle to get rid of it (but probably need a fixed guide system like a work sharp pro to do it accurately)

a. it's absolutely a flaw. you've just adapted your usage to fit the flaw. finding a use for something that isn't right doesn't make it right, even if you like it.
b. exactly. it would take a new sharpening system (not everyone needs or has a guided system) and quite a bit of my time to fix a knife that cost over $200. that price point is one where we should expect better.


and, as i pointed out already, i was annoyed by the snaggletooth, but i wasn't really upset until the response. i will never think it's okay to push the subpar product out to the customer as if nothing is wrong and then provide a sob story as an excuse after the fact. even if the story came first and we knew going in that spyderco was trying to help this factory that they have a history with get back on their feet, i think it would've been different, at least for me. but to hear that story as a way of getting people on board with sloppy qc is really poor business and service.



i'll say it again, since you can't have a negative opinion around here... i still like spyderco more than i don't. i still buy their knives more than any other company. i still recommend spyderco to most people that ask about knives and often show them whatever spydie i'm carrying. i still carry spyderco knives every day. this isn't about hating on spyderco... it's about a situation that was handled very poorly, while people come on here and pretend like everything is roses by saying it's not a flaw and/or it's easy to fix, so the customers that are unhappy are the problem. that's not constructive or helpful in any way to those customers, or to spyderco.

As much as I like this knife (especially after my mods) I have to agree on the fact that this is definitely a defect, and there's no point denying that there were some obvious QC issues on this release.

I opted for a plain edge version and I still got major issues on the grind as you can see from these pics (snapped before my modifications):


It's pretty major stuff and I think a knife with such defects shouldn't be sold for the full price:


I do not own a SE model but for what I've seen it looks like on those the tip is grinded similarly to the tip of a combo edge knife, but with a very short plain edge section (just the tip). Now that I think about it, for the way only the last bit of this blade can lay flat on a cutting board due to the negative angle, maybe a combo edge would have been cool: PE for precision slicing and SE for aggressive cutting, best of both worlds...ramblings aside, this pretty clearly wasn't some odd design choice, it's a defect come on.

However I do think that this model deserves further runs, possibly addressing these issues. Personally I would love a LC200N or Magnacut version. Without the need of washers it's probably a good candidate for a salt version...although I wouldn't dare using this knife on a boat floating on the sea, with such pointy tip and aggressive profile I'd probably end up stabbing myself bad haha...

In general IMHO back lock Spydies with full steel liners and G10 scales (like the Police K390 sprint run to mention another one I love) are the absolute best design for a big pocket knife: super thin and pocketable, no side play, beautiful to look at either when closed or opened with those gorgeous exposed liners and polished back. I used many folders in the past, now I'm more of a fixed blade guy, even for EDC, but I still value the ability that these designs give you to carry big blades in light and slim and elegant packages, and I keep coming back to these models, especially in the summer, when wearing less clothes a fixie can be cumbersome to carry day to day.

So yeah, I gotta be honest, in some way I think this release was a bit botched, but Spyderco please don't kill these classic designs, just polish the production a little more next time, there'll still be plenty of fans buying them. I for one wil be one of those for sure.

[ladybug93]

to be honest, i'm tired of rehashing this thing, but the thread keeps coming up and people keep dismissing a legitimate problem and pointing fingers back at the customers for being too picky over the qc on a $200 knife. every time i see that, i'm going to say something, but i'm tired of having to and i'm tired of seeing this thread altogether. no offense, jd. i'm glad this thread existed and that spyderco reran the ayoob, i just want to stop having this conversation.

[ramblinwreck]

Meh, for $100 I’m not concerned about the “snaggletooth” issue. It’s a self-defense carry knife. It will work, God forbid, in a self-defense situation. Snaggletooth or not.

[electro-static]

So,
A. It's not much of a flaw, if a flaw at all
B. You can steepen the tip angle to get rid of it (but probably need a fixed guide system like a work sharp pro to do it accurately)

a. it's absolutely a flaw. you've just adapted your usage to fit the flaw. finding a use for something that isn't right doesn't make it right, even if you like it.
b. exactly. it would take a new sharpening system (not everyone needs or has a guided system) and quite a bit of my time to fix a knife that cost over $200. that price point is one where we should expect better.


and, as i pointed out already, i was annoyed by the snaggletooth, but i wasn't really upset until the response. i will never think it's okay to push the subpar product out to the customer as if nothing is wrong and then provide a sob story as an excuse after the fact. even if the story came first and we knew going in that spyderco was trying to help this factory that they have a history with get back on their feet, i think it would've been different, at least for me. but to hear that story as a way of getting people on board with sloppy qc is really poor business and service.



i'll say it again, since you can't have a negative opinion around here... i still like spyderco more than i don't. i still buy their knives more than any other company. i still recommend spyderco to most people that ask about knives and often show them whatever spydie i'm carrying. i still carry spyderco knives every day. this isn't about hating on spyderco... it's about a situation that was handled very poorly, while people come on here and pretend like everything is roses by saying it's not a flaw and/or it's easy to fix, so the customers that are unhappy are the problem. that's not constructive or helpful in any way to those customers, or to spyderco.

As much as I like this knife (especially after my mods) I have to agree on the fact that this is definitely a defect, and there's no point denying that there were some obvious QC issues on this release.

I opted for a plain edge version and I still got major issues on the grind as you can see from these pics (snapped before my modifications):


It's pretty major stuff and I think a knife with such defects shouldn't be sold for the full price:


I do not own a SE model but for what I've seen it looks like on those the tip is grinded similarly to the tip of a combo edge knife, but with a very short plain edge section (just the tip). Now that I think about it, for the way only the last bit of this blade can lay flat on a cutting board due to the negative angle, maybe a combo edge would have been cool: PE for precision slicing and SE for aggressive cutting, best of both worlds...ramblings aside, this pretty clearly wasn't some odd design choice, it's a defect come on.

However I do think that this model deserves further runs, possibly addressing these issues. Personally I would love a LC200N or Magnacut version. Without the need of washers it's probably a good candidate for a salt version...although I wouldn't dare using this knife on a boat floating on the sea, with such pointy tip and aggressive profile I'd probably end up stabbing myself bad haha...

In general IMHO back lock Spydies with full steel liners and G10 scales (like the Police K390 sprint run to mention another one I love) are the absolute best design for a big pocket knife: super thin and pocketable, no side play, beautiful to look at either when closed or opened with those gorgeous exposed liners and polished back. I used many folders in the past, now I'm more of a fixed blade guy, even for EDC, but I still value the ability that these designs give you to carry big blades in light and slim and elegant packages, and I keep coming back to these models, especially in the summer, when wearing less clothes a fixie can be cumbersome to carry day to day.

So yeah, I gotta be honest, in some way I think this release was a bit botched, but Spyderco please don't kill these classic designs, just polish the production a little more next time, there'll still be plenty of fans buying them. I for one wil be one of those for sure.

I noticed that my PE model had a really obtuse grind that was really time consuming to re-profile. I would say that if it was thinner behind the edge, it would cut much better although I’m not sure that that is the intention of this knife.

I’m excited for the factory second in SE though as it’s supposed to be a good model for SE. (I’m curious about serrated edges, not exactly sold on them yet)

It’s cool that some were available through the seconds sale as the firsts were highly sought after sold out quite a while ago.

I know that lots of people use them for fame dressing so I think a model that you don’t need to dry after washing would be cool.

[ladybug93]

it's still a great knife and slices like a beast.

[aicolainen]

to be honest, i'm tired of rehashing this thing, but the thread keeps coming up and people keep dismissing a legitimate problem and pointing fingers back at the customers for being too picky over the qc on a $200 knife. every time i see that, i'm going to say something, but i'm tired of having to and i'm tired of seeing this thread altogether. no offense, jd. i'm glad this thread existed and that spyderco reran the ayoob, i just want to stop having this conversation.

Not to forget, this is an approx. EUR 280 + tax in EU. In my case translating to approx. USD 440 delivered for the one I was considering before I stumbled upon the option to buy a seconds.

[Ramonade]

Yeah, us EU people are forced to be very much in love with exceptional QC !

[nerdlock]

Thanks for all the responses here. I'll definitely lower my expectations for the seconds that I'll be getting. Probably why there were so many seconds sold is due to this issue, not passing QC standards. Nevertheless, I'm excited to receive mine and it will be my first SE that's not H1.

[Spyderwebs]

I'm excited to receive mine and it will be my first SE that's not H1.

Based on experience, this blade loves strooping. I have been using 4 micron diamond paste on a home made stroop with thick (3-4mm) leather. I loaded up the stroop with paste (both the top and side of the leather), then drag the blade across it almost like a reverse stroke on the sharpmaker, sliding down the leather and the blade simultaneously, with it cocked at the same angle as the tooth grind and downard a 45* so the corner of the leather slides between the teeth.

To finish I lay the non-serrated side flat and pull a couple times. This keeps the Ayoob paper cutting sharp with minimal maintenance. Strooping gets the serrated blade significantly sharper than I can get it off the SM.

Also, the likely flaw is the snaggletooth. If it really bothers you, just reprofile the tip at a steeper angle (like 18-19*) and that will eliminate the snaggle.