Do we really need a finger choil ?

[wrdwrght]

So long as Spyderco sees a reason—“all good, just different”—to offer finger-choils and handles-forward, I see agitating for one over the other as a hill I don’t even want to climb, let alone die on.

But I do enjoy my Lil’Temperance2, Lil’Temperance3, D’Allara3, Caribbean, Rock Jumper, and Canis. To say I wait eagerly to see the handle-forward Shaman is to put it mildly.

[Woodpuppy]

Need? No. Find useful? Sometimes. Please don’t choilify the Endura.

[JRinFL]

Why does this subject keep coming back up every few months? Do people think they will change the minds of people in the other camp? Do they think they will change the mind of the designer who has designed knives with and without choils?

[olywa]

On small folders a choil can be a real asset for those with larger hands. In addition, I like the added control a choil offers on some larger folders. I've prolly got a 60/40 no choil mix with my Spydies.

On fixed blades I'm mostly no choil with a couple of exceptions. My Bradford Guardian 4 has an incredible feel in-hand and I'm pretty fond of the Guardian 3 as well. I've used them both pretty hard and have yet to be seriously cut by either. I also have pinky lanyards on them and I take advantage of that safeguard when thrust or push cutting.

[mikey177]

I think choils are here to stay because knives cater to users with different hand sizes.

Having normal size Asian hands, I can get a full grip on most folders even without the choil. Also, having slender fingers, choking up using the choil is actually less comfortable for me. But I can see how persons with larger hands may find it useful.

[WilliamMunny]

Smaller knife, sub 3” blade then yes. Bigger knife 3.5”+ not really. Example is the Manix 2, love the knife but it feels like it has very little cutting edge for the size of the knife. I would be curious how a Manix 2.5 without a finger choil would feel.

[DukeBrnz]

I've soured on choils over the years, it just seems like such a waste. A choil has to be about the heaviest way to add grip space. It gets used very rarely if at all by me. Of course it eats up blade space and the nubben of blade produced by a choil seems to catch on every thing.

I like some models despite a choil but can hardly think of any model improved by it. (DF2 being the one exception.)

[RustyIron]

Choking up on the very cutting edge is not a problem at all too, of one knows what they are doing.

By your definition, I don't know what I'm doing. That's ok, I've had much worse things said about me, and sometimes they're probably right.

Just how sharp are your knives? I only ask because I'm VERY careful about touching my blades. I don't think it would be possible to hold any of my knives by the blade, without cutting through skin. I'm not even going to try. Even if my blades were dull, I don't think I would allow my body to come into contact with the edge when the knife is in use.

[Bill1170]

I prefer a blade whose edge goes all the way to the handle. However, I see the benefit to finger choils, especially on smaller knives. I’m grateful that Spyderco offers both kinds.

[Manifestgtr]

Finger choils are a major plus for me. I like having a finger up on the blade (especially if I’m doing something fiddly and precise) for maximum control…or at least the illusion of maximum control.

There are certain choil-less models I love regardless…the entire delica/endura family, the tenacious, my benchmade 940 and 560, the mules…but the shaman, sage and manix rise above those for me and their choils are definitely part of the equation. I’m in the minority on this, I know, but on a 3”+ knife, I’ll gladly sacrifice cutting edge for a good finger choil 9/10 times…even more often on a smaller knife for the ergonomic benefit.

[embry386]

I have had and enjoyed knives both with and without finger choils. These days I prefer knives without, because I like the better edge-to-handle ratio that is made possible when there's no choil. However, I'm not bothered that many of Spyderco's models have choils; they definitely have a place and variety is good, plus there are many many people who enjoy choils on their knives.

The only place I feel there's a choil-related flaw in Spyderco's offerings is the lack of a big folder without a choil. I have a Police, but something about that size with the extra blade length and no choil would be really cool to see. Spyderco has produced a few knives like that in the past, but they have all been creatively-shaped short-run weird kinds of knives, and while they are super cool, what I'd like to see is a more "boring" choil-less big knife. Just a standard big lightweight knife with max edge length and no choil.

A really well-done choil that I actually like is the choil on the Amalgam. If you haven't yet had the joy of encountering an Amalgam in person, I've attached some photos to demonstrate (with Police 4 as contrast). You can see that the choil on the Police is large and jimped, and would absolutely snag any material that happens to catch on it during use. You can also see that the choil on the Amalgam is super thin and shallow, and not snaggy at all; any material that lands there will just slide right off the choil and onto the blade. It's blunt enough to be safe for your fingers to curl around if you want to use the choil, but if you prefer to hold your knife on the normal handle area, the outstanding thinness and slipperiness of the choil means that it basically disappears in use -- no snagging, you still feel like you've got a full blade's worth of cutting edge. The little point where the choil transitions into the edge can even work almost like a serration, gives a little extra bite to your cuts. This style of choil is FANTASTIC and I'd love to see it on more models.

Photos of choil on Amalgam vs Police 4:

[BornIn1500]

The more I read these debates, the more I think that when people prefer a choil on a medium/large knife, it's more psychological than physical. A Tenacious, Caribbean, Lil Temp 3 (etc.) will put your hand naturally right up against the edge, which is identical to the hand position of a choil. But since nothing additional or special was done to choke up, it doesn't "feel" the same.

[vivi]

.
The only place I feel there's a choil-related flaw in Spyderco's offerings is the lack of a big folder without a choil. I have a Police, but something about that size with the extra blade length and no choil would be really cool to see. Spyderco has produced a few knives like that in the past, but they have all been creatively-shaped short-run weird kinds of knives, and while they are super cool, what I'd like to see is a more "boring" choil-less big knife. Just a standard big lightweight knife with max edge length and no choil.

They already make a standard, big, lightweight knife with max edge length and no choil. The Resilience is exactly that.

I dismissed it for a while because eww china / 8cr. but these days I would rather carry one over any Police or Military variation. The design is very good.

[skeeg11]

Resilience....the Russian bear slayer.

[brj]

Spyderco used to be very good at providing options to accommodate everybody. There were models with deep choil, shallow choil (Military), large (but not deep) choil (Calypso), the suggestion of a choil (Snap-it), you get the gist. Plus plenty of choiless choices. On some models, the choil worked well and doubled as a safety feature (T-Mag). On others, the choil is so intrinsic to the design I can't even picture it without one (Kris, Kapara).

Then something happened. At some point, Spyderco decided the deep choil is the way to go and it started to appear on, well, basically everything. That was the moment I decided I'm no longer interested in models sporting the same choil all over again, I've plenty of those anyway.

So back to the original question, as always in life, the answer is 'it depends'. Some models are really shining with a choil. Others are so well established in the public's mind, even the suggestion of a choil would approach blasphemy (Endura/Delica). I personally have zero interest in any Spyderco sporting the deep choil and will not buy any of those.

[The Deacon]

Do I "need" a finger choil, no. Do I have an extremely strong preference for them, yes. To the point where, aside from the Jester on my key ring, I've almost never carried a folding knife without one for the past 19 years. Native, Kiwi, Kiwi 2, Calypso Jr., R, Schempp Persian, Stretch, Manix, Caly 3, Stretch 2, Manix 2, Sage, Chaparral, those are the models that have found their way into my pockets for more that a few days.

[nerdlock]

One thing I'd like to suggest to Spyderco regarding Golden-made finger choils - I wish they would chamfer the choil portion of the handles. Using the choils of the PM2/Para 3, Manix 2, Lil Native could be quite uncomfortable due to how little chamfering there are on the edges.

[WilliamMunny]

Just paying with then numbers of edge length vs overall length, Spyderco seems to have a pattern. Below is the percentage of cutting edge to over all knife length. With out the choil you are gaining about 6% more cutting edge for the given length of the knife. So on a knife that is 8" long over all you get about 1/2" more cutting edge. I am sure there are some that don't fall into this pattern but these are some of the more popular models.


Finger Choil:
- PM2 - 36.9%
- Manix - 36.3%
- Shaman - 37.8%
- Military - 38.9%

No Finger Choil:
-Tenacious - 43.5%
- Resilience - 44.6%
- Spydchef - 42.5%

[derangedhermit]

They already make a standard, big, lightweight knife with max edge length and no choil. The Resilience is exactly that.

I dismissed it for a while because eww china / 8cr. but these days I would rather carry one over any Police or Military variation. The design is very good.

I agree 100%. Standard, big, lightweight knife with max edge length / no choil - and I have to add 4-way carry.

If I can't buy an expensive Spyderco that best fits what I want, I will reluctantly buy a less expensive one.

[Hardbawl]

The Spyderco’s that I use ALL have finger choils. The ones that don’t have choils don’t get used. So, I guess I like finger choils. You give up some edge for way better control. There is also a big advantage that a collector might miss. With my fat index finger on the choil any goo that is on what I am cutting is kept from the tight fit working parts of my knife. Blood can be corrosive, and barbecue sauce can gum up the works. For me, a choil makes a knife safer and easier to maintain. A finger choil is a knife users friend.