Wharncliffe Native 5?

[On Edge]

@ Evil D … have you done a mock-up of them closed? my only reservation would be the significant height that would result from all that blade riding outside the handle when closed.

[JSumm]

That is a good point. The Rock Jumper is like the Manix in that it takes up a lot of real estate in pocket. I think a more practical grind would be to abandon the gradually sloping curve to the point on the spine that a traditional Wharncliffe has. A more dramatic drop to the point on the spine makes for a better footprint in my opinion and looks better. Think of the recent PM2 Wharncliffe from Cutlery Shoppe.

[Cl1ff]

The wharncliffe lil native flipped the switch for me on that model. I see now that I’d feel the same if the native were to get the same treatment.

[RamZar]

As long as the blade and handle widths remain the same as the current Natives I’m definitely in. Ditto for Chaparral.

[Evil D]

@ Evil D … have you done a mock-up of them closed? my only reservation would be the significant height that would result from all that blade riding outside the handle when closed.

Well this is where the "oversimplification" part comes in because that's need to change the blade kick and/or the inside of the back spacer to allow room for the edge to close into the handle.

This pic just shows the utility blade hitting the handle.


I'm sure it would need to be a bit wider when closed but the potential positive there is that the whole thumb hole could be exposed out from the handle. This happened on the two Caribbean blade shapes too, the sheepsfoot thumb hole is a bit more accessible.

[Evil D]

That is a good point. The Rock Jumper is like the Manix in that it takes up a lot of real estate in pocket. I think a more practical grind would be to abandon the gradually sloping curve to the point on the spine that a traditional Wharncliffe has. A more dramatic drop to the point on the spine makes for a better footprint in my opinion and looks better. Think of the recent PM2 Wharncliffe from Cutlery Shoppe.

It's only partly about the slope of the spine and more about the kick, especially on a back lock since it has a back spacer. On a Para 2 they have more freedom with where the blade stops inside the handle as long as it doesn't interfere with the lock tab. On a back lock the edge will hit the back spacer so the kick needs to be changed. I'm sure the edge couldn't be as low/in line with the finger choil as I have it mocked up.

[JSumm]

Yeah, I guess I meant the spine shape being less semi-circle(ish) and more of a straight line (drop) up until the point where you want to reinforce the tip.

I think that looks better and slims down the closed profile.

[cjk]

I'm no expert, but this is what I see.
If you compare a wharnie backlock model next to a the same non-wharnie model side by side (Delicas in my case), you may notice that the ricasso is a bit taller on the wharnie.
If you compare them open and closed, you'll notice that the orientation of the bug on the blade is the same when open, but slightly different when closed. Say the motion of the normal Delica blade when opening is 170 degrees while the wharnie is only about 160 degrees (both vague estimates on my part, I didn't measure, but hopefully you get the idea). The wharnie doesn't close quite as far.
The tip between the two is in about the same place, but the normal one's blade goes quite a bit further into the handle when closed because of the belly.
Since the back lock bar acts as the stop pin, the lock bar could be modified instead. It could be taller where the ricasso/kick touches the lock bar when closed, thus kicking the blade up a little so it doesn't close as far. Then the tip could be in the same place between both models.

My point is that I don't think that it is necessary to modify the handle. The blade and/or lock bar could be modified to make a wharnie happen with the existing handle.

[cjk]

On the Chaparral, the integral stop pins act against the liners. I don't think the kick touches the lock bar. So I don't think either of the solutions in my previous post work on the Chaparral. I think the liners need to change slightly where the stop pins touch them on close so the wharncliffe blade doesn't close quite as far.

[Mushroom]

You want a Wharncliffe native 5? Oh sorry, Spyderco doesn’t make that knife. Try looking into their plethora of other Wharncliffe options currently available.

Oh, that’s not good enough? You want them to invest exorbitant amounts of time and money into producing yet another barely different version of a knife they already make? Good idea, that will certainly aid in their struggle with production capacity!

Maybe it’s just me but it feels extremely selfish to keep asking for more when that’s all they ever give us.

[Evil D]

You want a Wharncliffe native 5? Oh sorry, Spyderco doesn’t make that knife. Try looking into their plethora of other Wharncliffe options currently available.

Oh, that’s not good enough? You want them to invest exorbitant amounts of time and money into producing yet another barely different version of a knife they already make? Good idea, that will certainly aid in their struggle with production capacity!

Maybe it’s just me but it feels extremely selfish to keep asking for more when that’s all they ever give us.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I want them to do and I don't feel 1% bad for it. They are a business, I am a customer. I am asking for buying options, I am literally trying to drive sales. Sorting out their production capacity is not our job, and while I understand that challenge I also don't feel the least bit bad about suggesting ways to make new products and make more money. Gotta be honest it's kinda weird you would see it this way, nobody is asking Spyderco to make these knives and hand them out for free. Requests like this are literally free product research for the company, there is absolutely nothing negative about threads like this. In the end Spyderco will decide and if they can't or choose not to and then life goes on but stopping with suggestions isn't helping anything. How many knives have come from threads like this? You think Spyderco are taking a loss in sales when that happens? This whole forum is one giant machine that helps to drive sales and this is just part of that machine.

[Manixguy@1994]

Well said , and agree . Here is just one example : Left Hand Military. The idea came through discussion on the Forum . Spyderco decided to go with it , the variation has been in the lineup for years . Absolutely nothing wrong exploring ideas and positive discussion on the Forum . MG2

[Mushroom]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I want them to do and I don't feel 1% bad for it. They are a business, I am a customer. I am asking for buying options, I am literally trying to drive sales. Sorting out their production capacity is not our job, and while I understand that challenge I also don't feel the least bit bad about suggesting ways to make new products and make more money. Gotta be honest it's kinda weird you would see it this way, nobody is asking Spyderco to make these knives and hand them out for free. Requests like this are literally free product research for the company, there is absolutely nothing negative about threads like this. In the end Spyderco will decide and if they can't or choose not to and then life goes on but stopping with suggestions isn't helping anything. How many knives have come from threads like this? You think Spyderco are taking a loss in sales when that happens? This whole forum is one giant machine that helps to drive sales and this is just part of that machine.

Oh please… As if a Wharncliffe Native 5 is something that they haven’t considered themselves. They are more than capable of making decisions without our selfish input.

This constant clamoring for more and these threads just saying “gimme gimme gimme” is flat out obnoxious. But if that’s what people want to turn this forum into, so be it.

Like I already said though, don’t worry, you WILL get a Wharncliffe Native 5. Just a matter of time now.

[Wartstein]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I want them to do and I don't feel 1% bad for it. They are a business, I am a customer. I am asking for buying options, I am literally trying to drive sales. Sorting out their production capacity is not our job, and while I understand that challenge I also don't feel the least bit bad about suggesting ways to make new products and make more money. Gotta be honest it's kinda weird you would see it this way, nobody is asking Spyderco to make these knives and hand them out for free. Requests like this are literally free product research for the company, there is absolutely nothing negative about threads like this. In the end Spyderco will decide and if they can't or choose not to and then life goes on but stopping with suggestions isn't helping anything. How many knives have come from threads like this? You think Spyderco are taking a loss in sales when that happens? This whole forum is one giant machine that helps to drive sales and this is just part of that machine.

Well said , and agree . Here is just one example : Left Hand Military. The idea came through discussion on the Forum . Spyderco decided to go with it , the variation has been in the lineup for years . Absolutely nothing wrong exploring ideas and positive discussion on the Forum . MG2

Actually perfectly said, and I agree too.

And, first and foremost: Sal himself has said several times that he actually appreciate threads like this, follows them and takes into consideration what people might propose or dream of.
Or, as Michael Janich put it (quote): "like all things Spyderco, if you really want something, keep asking for it here" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87043&p=1437159#p1437159 very end of his post).

I figure Sals and Spydercos "philosophy" is that they want customers who really think about their knives, appreciate design features, and just naturally, like always when people are deep into a passion, might dream of a certain feature, steel, lock whatever for example on another model or handle design they like.
I actually call that real, active interest in a brand and their product. Only a good thing imo, and Spyderco managed to create just that.
And I call it people who have a passion for something (in this case Spydies), discussing what they have a passion for...

And, let´s be honest: Putting a wharnie blade in an already existing platform is certainly not "nothing", but one of the easier things to do...

@MG2: Another example would actually be a wharnie: The wharnie Delice = "Jazzlica". Came to life cause forum member Jazz advocated for it as far as I know.

[Evil D]

But if that’s what people want to turn this forum into, so be it.

This is a discussion forum, and this is part of the discussion. The beautiful part is you can scroll right past it and not even open the thread.

[JSumm]

I think Sal and company are fully capable of choosing what they want to invest in. They can choose to use this forum to gauge interest or not. Very few actual designers on here. So mainly just us reviewing, discussing, and posing small tweaks. If we were coming up with fresh designs from scratch, we would probably be more involved in the industry somewhere. Take BBB and Chad on here for example. Both coming up with fresh designs and possible future collabs, but they are the extreme minority. The rest of us just have the pleasure of discussing. For fun.

[Notsurewhy]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I want them to do and I don't feel 1% bad for it. They are a business, I am a customer. I am asking for buying options, I am literally trying to drive sales. Sorting out their production capacity is not our job, and while I understand that challenge I also don't feel the least bit bad about suggesting ways to make new products and make more money. Gotta be honest it's kinda weird you would see it this way, nobody is asking Spyderco to make these knives and hand them out for free. Requests like this are literally free product research for the company, there is absolutely nothing negative about threads like this. In the end Spyderco will decide and if they can't or choose not to and then life goes on but stopping with suggestions isn't helping anything. How many knives have come from threads like this? You think Spyderco are taking a loss in sales when that happens? This whole forum is one giant machine that helps to drive sales and this is just part of that machine.

Oh please… As if a Wharncliffe Native 5 is something that they haven’t considered themselves. They are more than capable of making decisions without our selfish input.

This constant clamoring for more and these threads just saying “gimme gimme gimme” is flat out obnoxious. But if that’s what people want to turn this forum into, so be it.

Like I already said though, don’t worry, you WILL get a Wharncliffe Native 5. Just a matter of time now.

Really strong "stop liking what I don't like" vibes from your posts in this thread. You may want to examine why you want to control what other people say about their preferences and who is being selfish in this scenario.

[z1r]

+1
I would be very into this.

It's a pass for me.

[TkoK83Spy]

Make it G10 or micarta with liners and I'll bite!

[Mushroom]

Really strong "stop liking what I don't like" vibes from your posts in this thread. You may want to examine why you want to control what other people say about their preferences and who is being selfish in this scenario.

Oh the old “no, you!” strategy… Ok well, you got me.

If you think I have any desire to control what other people say about their preferences, you’re mistaken. It has nothing to do with that.

“Spoiled” probably would have been a better word to use over “selfish.”