Quality Chinese Steels

[crazywednesday]

My recent Byrd purchase has got me rethinking a bit. Rethinking is when two drunk brain cells begin to do what they were supposed to do before they were drunk. What high quality knife steels are coming out of China? Im particularly interested in those made in China. I realize any manufacture can ship plates of steel over there and have knives made from any steel they choose. The reason for my question is my curiosity about what other options there is for the Byrd line of knives that doesnt interfere with "American made" or "European made" product lines.

[O,just,O]

Is the title not an oxymoron ?
O

[Bloke]

Is the title not an oxymoron ?
O

Contradiction? :rolleyes:

[O,just,O]

Yeah, like cheap quality.
O.

[steelcity16]

Ganzo 440c is just fine in my opinion. i use them for the tasks i would be scared to use my $200 spydies on and i have no complaints. just buy the ones that arent blatent ripoffs of spydies and benchmades.

If I bought a byrd with the same 440c blade as my ganzos, id think it was a great purchase.

[crazywednesday]

I agree, the title thread seems like an Oxymoron. I had that thought before I had my first response, but then I thought about lots of other things I own that have lasted many years. Some were made in China and I would consider them good quality. I dont really know about the steels coming out of China. I know they manufacture things for cheap, but that doesnt mean the materials are always inferior. I knew this thread would initially get blasted, but is there actually good to great steel being made in China, or has that just not happened yet.

[The Deacon]

I agree, the title thread seems like an Oxymoron. I had that thought before I had my first response, but then I thought about lots of other things I own that have lasted many years. Some were made in China and I would consider them good quality. I dont really know about the steels coming out of China. I know they manufacture things for cheap, but that doesnt mean the materials are always inferior. I knew this thread would initially get blasted, but is there actually good to great steel being made in China, or has that just not happened yet.

I'm sure there's a lot of steel most reasonable people would consider "good" being made in China. The 8Cr13MoV that Spyderco uses in the Byrds and Value Line folders would be an example of that. "Great" is another thing altogether. But, considering there are steel snobs among us who consider steels like like VG-10 and CPM S30V to be "inferior", that shouldn't be too surprising.

EDITED TO ADD: Also pays to keep in mind that a fair percentage of people are quite happy with steels like Case's "tru-sharp surgical stainless" and the "rostfrei" Victorinox uses. Almost all the rest would consider those steels a major step up from the recycled car parts and 55 gallon drums their knives are made from. Only a tiny fraction of users are willing to pay for something better and, even among those, opinions on whether any given steel is "good" or "great" are going to vary, based on both needs and personal preferences. As an example, I place a much higher value on rust resistance than many here, and would never consider a non-stainless steel to be good, muchless great.

[GalvanizedHero]

One of my favorite knives is a Chinese clone of a fox 478. Lock up is just as strong if not stronger than my real foxes, I wouldn't know I've never abuse a real one, but the steel is mooore than adequate for the whopping $12 that I paid for it. The scales, machining, lock up and everything are amazing for a knock off. It doesn't feel like a clone in the hand.

I think China will probably always be better at making affordable knock offs then quality original items. China is known for quantity, not quality.

[O,just,O]

The Chinese can make anything from anything & of any quality. The marketing choice is to make something cheap enough that looks like something that it not necessarily is. If quality is poor look to the importer who puts his name on it & maximizes his profit by having the product made as cheaply as possible.
Buy with eye. It does not live up to function. Oh well it was cheap enough, just toss it & get another.
The products flow from factory through your hand & into landfill & the factory door keeps flowing.
The money flows the opposite direction & keeps flowing.
Everybody but the consumer is happy.
But will still buy it because it is cheap.
Another oxymoron.
Or is that shoppingmoron.
O.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Are you all saying that in theory, the Chinese engineers and steel and knife makers, could make a knife with the exacting quality of a Swedish, Finnish, German, or Japanese knife, with absolute quality control down to the level of bearings and bolsters and with no rough parts, all as good as say, a genuine Victorinox Swiss Army knife, or a Spyderco Military or Endura, but, the present demands of the majority of markets for Chinese products tend to go for lower quality control at cheaper prices?

And that if the Chinese made say an exact quality version of those other knives, they would also charge higher prices?

[The Mastiff]

And that if the Chinese made say an exact quality version of those other knives, they would also charge higher prices?

Of course. They would and do. Things get fuzzy though when you throw in government subsidies and the effect of lower wages and costs of energy ( another way things are subsidized) . China has long been accused of dumping steel on markets at lower costs than the steel can be made elsewhere. Then again they are far from the only ones. The USA has long been accused of doing defense equipment lower than others because the research is paid by our huge defense budget.

No one is completely guilty or innocent and to be honest if I'm buying rebar that will be buried in concrete for the next hundred years shouldn't I be trying to buy the cheapest rebar I can get? :)

The real question is why do you ask questions you already have the answer to ?
:D

Joe

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Sometimes I ask questions like that because I want to get other views and opinions on them and also to affirm what I already may have discovered, but, I like to hear and read it from the perspective of others, sort of like an "error checking process".

I do appreciate your answers, definitely, and that of others.

Regarding the rebar, I was once walking by some construction and you could see the exposed steel rebar that had been put into the concrete, and where the rebar was exposed, it began to rust and corrode away. I thought to myself "man, I wish they could come up with some form of stainless steel that was not brittle, and had the flex of mild steel, but, the rust resistant properties of say H1 stainless that Spyderco uses in their knives."


Do you think this is not very likely or it could happen?

[crazywednesday]

Could it happen? Yes, the Chinese are masters at patent mimicry

[Bill1170]

Spyderco made a mule from Chinese 9Cr18Mo Steel. I bought 4 of them. It is analogous to 440C, and is quite good. It isn’t on par with today’s super steels, but it holds an edge better than the 8Cr steels I have tried. I believe it was Sal who stated that their Chinese makers couldn’t use it because that alloy can’t be blanked with a punch press like 8Cr steels can.

[Bill1170]

Sometimes I ask questions like that because I want to get other views and opinions on them and also to affirm what I already may have discovered, but, I like to hear and read it from the perspective of others, sort of like an "error checking process".

I do appreciate your answers, definitely, and that of others.

Regarding the rebar, I was once walking by some construction and you could see the exposed steel rebar that had been put into the concrete, and where the rebar was exposed, it began to rust and corrode away. I thought to myself "man, I wish they could come up with some form of stainless steel that was not brittle, and had the flex of mild steel, but, the rust resistant properties of say H1 stainless that Spyderco uses in their knives."


Do you think this is not very likely or it could happen?

It already has happened. They use 300 series stainless to make rebar. Very expensive, but way more durable than mild steel. 300 series stainlesses are austenitic, so they are not brittle. They are very stain resistant, especially the 316 grade, suitable for salt water exposure.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Bill thank you for telling me of this, I am so glad to know it, thank you.

[ThePeacent]

A bit OT, but... :rolleyes:

I guess that, in time, all buildings that were once built with old school carbon steel rebar will crumble and fall down, rust and degrade, and then the newer buildings and structures that are built on their old grounds will be made with stainless or stain proof steel bars, :cool:

thus creating buildings that, if properly matched with other high tech materials, will last thousands of years and will stand water, oxidation and corrosion much better than current structures. :)

I can even imagine entire cities built of steels impervious to the elements, with solid, timeless constructions that can be complemented by replaceable walls, rooms and habitacles made of long lasting materials, with low heat imprint and contamination by-products, able to withstand time and climate and still provide comfortable housing and efficient energy/resources management.

TP

:spyder:

[TomAiello]

Is the title not an oxymoron ?
O

No. China does not necessarily mean "cheap". iPhones, for example, are produced in China.

[O,just,O]

Is the title not an oxymoron ?
O

No. China does not necessarily mean "cheap". iPhones, for example, are produced in China.

Argh! They are made in China because they can do it the cheapest.

They are sold to you by apple who is ripping you off.
O.

[TomAiello]

Right. They're made in China because manufacturing costs are low there.

I interpreted "cheap" in this context as meaning "of low quality" rather than meaning "of low cost".

Things manufactured in China re not necessarily low quality. The costs associated with manufacturing in China are often lower than the costs associated with manufacturing in the USA, although higher than costs associated with manufacturing in other places (Vietnam, for example). Manufacturing cost and quality are not necessarily dependent variables, though.

I also don't think Apple is "ripping me off." If they price their product, and I choose to buy it at that price point, how can I be "ripped off" by that transaction? I've entered into it of my own free will, choosing to pay that price for that product. I could as easily (in some markets) have chosen an alternative (an Android, for example), but chose the iPhone. So long as I'm free to choose, I don't think I can be "ripped off".