Cold Steel Finn Wolf: your thoughts?

[Bloke]

That's awesome! :) :cool:

Don't undo all your good work by putting a micro bevel on it.

[The Meat man]

That's awesome! :) :cool:

Don't undo all your good work by putting a micro bevel on it.

Thanks! :)

That's exactly what I'm thinking... one of the main reasons I wanted this knife was for the grind. If I put a microbevel on it I might as well have gotten a FFG.

[anagarika]

I’d suggest doing alternate side to make sure it meets in the center, seeing how much work you need to do. Avoid over grinding on one side.

Not suggesting you don’t know that, just to remind.

Was thinking to get one, but I have already some Triad.
You don’t need to make a hole, a brownie pop can open most Triad design with blade above 3”, CS does good job on washer and right pivot tension, and the Triad doesn’t exert more pressure than any normal lockback.
Having my Broken Skull as I type :D.
(Hint: search old BF thread on brownie pop, basically inertia opening. Or Mike Janich’s elbow pivot method).

[ThePeacent]

I’d suggest doing alternate side to make sure it meets in the center, seeing how much work you need to do. Avoid over grinding on one side.

Not suggesting you don’t know that, just to remind.

Was thinking to get one, but I have already some Triad.
You don’t need to make a hole, a brownie pop can open most Triad design with blade above 3”, CS does good job on washer and right pivot tension, and the Triad doesn’t exert more pressure than any normal lockback.
Having my Broken Skull as I type :D.
(Hint: search old BF thread on brownie pop, basically inertia opening. Or Mike Janich’s elbow pivot method).

grey too? :o

[anagarika]

I’d suggest doing alternate side to make sure it meets in the center, seeing how much work you need to do. Avoid over grinding on one side.

Not suggesting you don’t know that, just to remind.

Was thinking to get one, but I have already some Triad.
You don’t need to make a hole, a brownie pop can open most Triad design with blade above 3”, CS does good job on washer and right pivot tension, and the Triad doesn’t exert more pressure than any normal lockback.
Having my Broken Skull as I type :D.
(Hint: search old BF thread on brownie pop, basically inertia opening. Or Mike Janich’s elbow pivot method).

grey too? :o

Brown ... :D. Your photo makes it look like brown :confused:

[anagarika]

Found the thread:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/brownie-pop.407564/

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bro ... fe.264182/

Not good for normal locks, but Triad might have zero issue due to the construction.

[The Meat man]

Okay after a several hours over several days, I finally got the edge under control:

Took a long time and a lot of steel removed but I'm happy with it now. I went from 100 grit to 2000, then stropped it with green honing compound on leather. It's super sharp now, and I think it will be easier to maintain now that it has a more uniform edge angle.

I'll be testing it out sometime in the near future, seeing how it holds up to carving and hard use.

[The Meat man]

[SpyderEdgeForever]

You done well, son :)

[The Meat man]

Thanks SEF. :)


Today I did some carving and whittling. I started out on some applewood, just making straight cuts and notches.

After a little while, I was a bit surprised to discover some edge rolling in spots. It wasn't too bad - not enough to cause a serious hiccup when slicing paper - so I kept going. I didn't baby the knife but I didn't needlessly twist or torque the edge either.

The rolling became more and more pronounced as I continued. Then I switched to some seasoned Osage Orange wood. Again I didn't abuse the edge, just did some straight carving, but this hard wood really did in the edge. In a short time the edge got to the point where it would barely bite into the wood at all.

The damage is 100% rolling - no chipping - so I'm hoping it won't take too long to fix. But I'm a little surprised that it took such damage from just routine wood carving - a task that the knife seems to be designed for. Is this normal? :confused:

[The Meat man]

Close up:

[awa54]

There's a reason real Scandi grind knives are made with high apex stability steels!

I have owned a few 12c27 Moras, but they definitely don't perform as well as the HC versions, especially if the grind angle is shallower, like in a true wood carving knife (which the Finn Wolf isn't).

Edge repair on Scandi blades is time consuming, since you have to remove a lot more metal from the bevel than on a blade that has a secondary bevel.

I'm not sure that this was a fair test though... orchard grown apple wood is so dense and hard that it'll damage any edge if there's side load applied.

[Bloke]

A little disappointing ay?

I’m not familiar with the wood you mention but our dry Eucalyptus is hard and it’s everywhere. I use it to try true zero grind Scandi’s on because it shows up deficiencies quickly.

I’ve found simple, old, tried and tested garden variety carbon steels if done well give you a great balance of sharpenability and edge stability and retention in a true zero grind blade. :)

[anagarika]

Well done on the rebeveling. :)

Unfortunately it doesn’t withstand the test
Not sure if you remove more steel it’s going to help, assuming factory burnt steel still remains. I remember some tgread over EDC forum discussing the scandi grind. Hopefully some have tested and can give you clue if it’s normal for Cold Steel AUS8, as CS is known to heat treat it well for a production knife in that steel.

[The Meat man]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to fix up the edge and give it another try on some other woods. Maybe that applewood was harder than I thought.

Bloke, Osage Orange is considered the best wood in the world for making bows (tied with English Yew). It's kind of a scrub tree, thorny, and has extremely hard and dense wood that is bright yellow. Burns super hot too.

I might try looking up that forum thread Chris. Looks interesting.

[awa54]

My only stainless blades from CS are a 90s Voyager in AUS8 that's tied with Moki's AUS8 (read *excellent*) and a newer Mini Tufflite, which is still very good, but doesn't seem to be quite up to the standard of the older Japanese made knife. I wouldn't use either to carve apple or osage orange wood and expect them to hold that edge for long... AUS8 is a decent all-around steel, but IMO isn't an ideal steel for a carver.

Either way, the apex on that knife probably won't hold up to anything tougher than softwood carving without a micro bevel, at which point you have a very obtuse sabre grind blade and lose the potential advantages of the Scandi grind.

The pic below is an Iisakki Jarvenpaa "utility" blade in HC (probably a simple .8-.9% carbon alloy at 58-60HRC), the bevel on that is actually useful for carving in pretty much any wood aside from ebony or lignum vitae, but in stainless I would expect the edge to wear, roll or chip in anything harder than birch (masur birch is probably too hard).

...and yes, my cats have decided it's OK to shred my wrist rest and sleep on the keyboard when nobody is home to stop them :P

[yablanowitz]

Is it wrong of me to sit here laughing? You lowered the edge angle on a relatively soft steel and were surprised when the edge rolled on hard wood. I'd have been surprised if it hadn't rolled. The reason for that higher angle toward the tip is because that is the part that gets the most use in carving and it is also the part most prone to lateral loading.

[The Meat man]

Is it wrong of me to sit here laughing? You lowered the edge angle on a relatively soft steel and were surprised when the edge rolled on hard wood. I'd have been surprised if it hadn't rolled. The reason for that higher angle toward the tip is because that is the part that gets the most use in carving and it is also the part most prone to lateral loading.

The rolling happened along the whole edge, not just on the tip. I kept the factory angle, just extended it along the curve.

I guess my surprise mostly came from what I understood was the intent of the knife's design - kind of a folding Bushcraft knife. As such I assumed it would be strong enough to withstand wood carving tasks.

Live and learn I guess. :rolleyes:

[awa54]

Is it wrong of me to sit here laughing? You lowered the edge angle on a relatively soft steel and were surprised when the edge rolled on hard wood. I'd have been surprised if it hadn't rolled. The reason for that higher angle toward the tip is because that is the part that gets the most use in carving and it is also the part most prone to lateral loading.

The rolling happened along the whole edge, not just on the tip. I kept the factory angle, just extended it along the curve.

I guess my surprise mostly came from what I understood was the intent of the knife's design - kind of a folding Bushcraft knife. As such I assumed it would be strong enough to withstand wood carving tasks.

Live and learn I guess. :rolleyes:

I think the hitch is that in reality the knife is designed to *exploit a market niche, for the purpose of selling more units at an attractive price point*... the biggest problem with that strategy is that *looking like a duck* isn't enough, it has to quack like one too

I hate to say it, but I bet the Spyderco/Ray Mears iteration of this type falls victim to the same problem (though chips in S30V are probably more likely than rolling).
As far as why disappointing hybrids like this keep being made by respectable knife companies, two factors likely play in to the flawed design specs heavily... 1) having to go with a steel that has customer recognition *and* is stainless, 2) using materials that your factory has experience with.

I'll say it again; if you want a good Scandi pattern knife look to Finland, Norway or Sweden and expect to pay a lot more than $40 for one that folds!

[The Meat man]

Is it wrong of me to sit here laughing? You lowered the edge angle on a relatively soft steel and were surprised when the edge rolled on hard wood. I'd have been surprised if it hadn't rolled. The reason for that higher angle toward the tip is because that is the part that gets the most use in carving and it is also the part most prone to lateral loading.

The rolling happened along the whole edge, not just on the tip. I kept the factory angle, just extended it along the curve.

I guess my surprise mostly came from what I understood was the intent of the knife's design - kind of a folding Bushcraft knife. As such I assumed it would be strong enough to withstand wood carving tasks.

Live and learn I guess. :rolleyes:

I think the hitch is that in reality the knife is designed to *exploit a market niche, for the purpose of selling more units at an attractive price point*... the biggest problem with that strategy is that *looking like a duck* isn't enough, it has to quack like one too

I hate to say it, but I bet the Spyderco/Ray Mears iteration of this type falls victim to the same problem (though chips in S30V are probably more likely than rolling).
As far as why disappointing hybrids like this keep being made by respectable knife companies, two factors likely play in to the flawed design specs heavily... 1) having to go with a steel that has customer recognition *and* is stainless, 2) using materials that your factory has experience with.

I'll say it again; if you want a good Scandi pattern knife look to Finland, Norway or Sweden and expect to pay a lot more than $40 for one that folds!

David, you're probably right. The good news is that if I know the knife's limits I'll still be able to use it. And at least it didn't cost me $100.

In your opinion, what would be the best steel for hard wood carving? Something like O-1 or 52100 or maybe CPM M4 or REX 45?