KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

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JD Spydo
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KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#1

Post by JD Spydo »

In the past few months I've stumbled onto a new survival type magazine that I've been very impressed with. I've read about 5 issues now and it just keeps getting >> the name of the magazine is called "OFF GRID" >> it's published by the same folks who publish "RECOIL" and "Shotgun News". These people are truly all about the facts and not the hype and GEICO Geko ads :rolleyes: .

There is an article in the most recent issue about knives with high quality LED lights and LED flashlights installed as part of the knife hardware. The name of the article is "Lighted Knives". I like the concept of it especially with all of this survival hardware becoming popular and the growing "prepper" movement gaining momentum. The only 2 they had in the article were made by a new company called "Brite-Blade" and the other surprisingly enough was one made by SOG.

It got me to wondering if maybe Spyderco might have anything like that in the works or maybe be planning something to compete with these 2 already on the market? I truly do like the concept and I'm also wondering if one of the better known flashlight companies might already be preparing to launch a product like that? It makes sense when you think about it because every night I go to do something here in Kansas City I always take at least 2 knives and one premium flashlight with me most of the time>> and I always end up using them as well.

I just wondered if any of you guys have heard of these new products yet? If not we can still talk about it. Also I sure hope that my favorite flashlight company Surefire is planning on competeing in this sector of the market because I've always found their stuff to be extremely dependable.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#2

Post by Donut »

I think the Ladybug/Photo tied together combo will be your best option.

How do you plan to cut something and shine a light on it at the same time?
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Blerv
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#3

Post by Blerv »

A flashlight integrated into anything is the universal sign to run in the other direction.

High-powered LED's need some room for heat sinking and a driver; at least if you want a variety of modes. They also need a reflector unless you want the light projected like a low-power iPhone flash (no hot spot). That and most cells are cylindrical which leaves possibility for coin cells or button cells (replaceable but destined for low-current products) or li-poly packs which can be powerful and micro USB charged but big enough that the knife attached would almost certainly lack ergonomics.

I agree with Donut. For about 1.5 ounces you can have a Ladybug FRN attached to a small flashlight with a reflector and replaceable/chargeable batteries. The new NiteCore Tube is a li-poly pack keychain light that is the next gen Photon. Both products are about as bare-bones as they come for machining efficiency. A handle about as big as the blade and a light about as big as the battery it houses.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#4

Post by phillipsted »

Normally, I need to point the light at whatever I'm about to cut. Having the two tools built into the same housing kind of limits your options - but it does ensure that you've got both with you at one time.

I think this falls into the category of "not for me" - but hey, whatever floats your boat, eh?

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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#5

Post by demoncase »

So....When you need to use the torch to see the thing you're cutting (like under the wheel arch of your car), and the torch in the butt-end of the knife is point in your eyes?

Yep, that'll be when you want a torch in one hand and a knife in the other. ;)
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#6

Post by JD Spydo »

I'm finding all these negative comments extremely interesting. Reason being is because these companies I'm sure have dumped a lot of dollars into this concept and you would think they would have done some research to see if there was going to be a market for them to begin with?

Judging from your responses I would say that it seems as though few people will have any interest in this concept at all. It's interesting that SOG got into this market :confused: ? The other company I know nothing about but I'm sure that there must be some limited demand for them.

I mainly wanted to see what you all thought of the concept of having a knife and a flashlight all in one unit would be liked at all. Well I guess I got a quick answer.

But during this survival prepper craze that's going on I'm sure there will be some interest. Because there were people that actually bought the pet rocks they were selling in the 80s :eek: :confused:

But I still think that if this is done right it could be an extremely handy item to have in a pinch. And despite all the negative fanfare I do think that these units could be very handy in disaster situations. Again I would like to know what Spyderco and Surefire are doing along these lines if anything at all.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#7

Post by noseoil »

Pictures? Before I post a snarky comment.....
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#8

Post by JD Spydo »

noseoil wrote:Pictures? Before I post a snarky comment.....
they do have pictures of both units in the recent issue of OFF GRID magazine. You can probably go to SOG's website to see their's I'm sure. The other one in the article is made by Brite Blade and I'm sure they won't be hard to find.

To me I wouldn't mind one on a good fixed blade>> I'm surprised that Surefire hasn't done something like this by now. They always seem to be innovators.

With the surge of all the new LED mini flashlight companies that have emerged in the past 5 years I'm sort of surprised that something like this didn't come out long before now actually.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#9

Post by Donut »

Yeah, I'd love to see what they're proposing.

The main issue is usually that what I want to power a flashlight with isn't going to be something that I want to hide in a knife handle. The button cells give terrible performance. They say a AAA battery has half the capacity of a AA and a AA isn't much larger.

I mean, maybe a CR2 cell wouldn't be bad, but I don't want to hide that in a knife handle either.

Then there's the reflector and then there's heat dissipation.

Did you see Surefire's wrist light? That is a platform that would work with a knife, but Surefire wants $500 for one.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#10

Post by JD Spydo »

Donut wrote:Yeah, I'd love to see what they're proposing.

The main issue is usually that what I want to power a flashlight with isn't going to be something that I want to hide in a knife handle. The button cells give terrible performance. They say a AAA battery has half the capacity of a AA and a AA isn't much larger.

I mean, maybe a CR2 cell wouldn't be bad, but I don't want to hide that in a knife handle either.

Then there's the reflector and then there's heat dissipation.

Did you see Surefire's wrist light? That is a platform that would work with a knife, but Surefire wants $500 for one.
Donut all that platter chatter about batteries has me wondering??? I have 3 small flashlights of Surefire's and they all run on "123A" batteries. I don't know how they compare to AA and AAA batteries I've never even checked into it. But I will say that the ones I buy from Surefire do last a long time in my Surefire E2D Defender model that I so dearly love. I got the LED Defender and it's much, much better than the older one I gave my Nephew which as an incandescent lamp. The LED L7 rechargable model I have sure kicks butt too.

I've heard that they now have rechargable 123A batteries but I can't find them anywhere. OH well I got enough of the disposables to last a few months anyway,
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#11

Post by demoncase »

JD Spydo wrote:I'm finding all these negative comments extremely interesting. Reason being is because these companies I'm sure have dumped a lot of dollars into this concept and you would think they would have done some research to see if there was going to be a market for them to begin with?
.
I never said there wasn't a market- far from it.

People will buy pretty much any shiny crap that lights up....I know I do :D
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Blerv
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#12

Post by Blerv »

Well...I don't want to comment on S.O.G. and frankly nobody else would want me to either ;). I will say they are not a flashlight company which is why they seemingly teamed with Tool-Logic to create that product. TL's products are interesting but I hear bad things about the overall quality. I won't say they aren't a good "value" though given the low price tags.

My post wasn't intended as "negative" but rather just trying to be realistic. Of course people want something like that! It's just not possible at least on any level I would find appealing.

Do you want to use conventional round cells? The thinnest one you can build a product around are alkaline AAAA's. You really would have to stack at the very least two of them to get decent lumens for more than about 10 minutes. An AAA cell is about 10mm in diameter and about 44mm long and would prob make more sense. You would have to come up with a decent way to load them. Not to mention a reflector/driver and clicky switch is going to take up a bit of room. CR123's are about 16mm in diameter (CR2's about 15mm) so it's tough to design a knife around something like that. Looking at a Manix2 (for example) there isn't a ton of extra dead space. If there was, a single CR2 would be awesome.

This is possible with a li-poly pack and 2x XML2's. 300 floody lumens.

Image
Image

The light itself is from Singapore, designed in the UK, and shipped from California (about $70 total). I'm guessing it's about as space efficient as you can get. It's not as thin as some coin cells and a few 5mm LED's but those things would be pushing like 10-20 lumens. The Nitecore Tube is rated at 40 lumens and is fairly small but again not something you could hide between knife scales. It's bigger than something like the Quantum DD but that's a twisty and uses a Li-Co 10180 cell (lithium N-cell). The Quantum is probably the smallest light that uses a reflector.

If you don't use a decent battery(s) and a high powered LED(s) you won't get much light. If you don't have a reflector the lumens are extremely inefficient. Most combined tool/lights are currently dim and of a pretty gross tint (blue/purple).

If you want performance it often requires specialization; blade makers doing knives and light makers doing lights. Combining the two for a very low price-point is almost certain to give you a junk product.

If you don't care what kind of blade or what kind of light combining the two is absolutely fine. It's what Apple did and now nearly everyone has a flashlight integrated into their phone. I still carry two more though because...yea. :rolleyes: :p
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#13

Post by JD Spydo »

Blerv wrote:Well...I don't want to comment on S.O.G. and frankly nobody else would want me to either ;). I will say they are not a flashlight company which is why they seemingly teamed with Tool-Logic to create that product. TL's products are interesting but I hear bad things about the overall quality. I won't say they aren't a good "value" though given the low price tags.

My post wasn't intended as "negative" but rather just trying to be realistic. Of course people want something like that! It's just not possible at least on any level I would find appealing.

The light itself is from Singapore, designed in the UK, and shipped from California (about $70 total). I'm guessing it's about as space efficient as you can get.

If you want performance it often requires specialization; blade makers doing knives and light makers doing lights. Combining the two for a very low price-point is almost certain to give you a junk product.

If you don't care what kind of blade or what kind of light combining the two is absolutely fine. It's what Apple did and now nearly everyone has a flashlight integrated into their phone. I still carry two more though because...yea. :rolleyes: :p
Hey I think there is a bit of misunderstanding here because when I said what I perceived to be negative comments I didn't take it to heart at all. I just found it to be challenging and it made me take a second look at the article and the product both. I kind of took a lot of stuff for granted because up till the article on the lighted knives I found many of the articles and the information in Off GRid to be very accurate and reliable information. But they are a relatively new publication and I'm sure they are probably having growing pains and are being sifted like wheat.

Blerv you've pointed out some very practical and good information>> not to mention with your price analysis and with the product itself you've established evidence that truly demands a verdict. I'm no longer intrigued>> because the point you make is well taken. Surefire needs to stay with high tech lights>> Spyderco, Benchmade and others in the cutlery business need to focus on what they do best. You've made some great points. And I think the old saying "Not Everything That Glitters Is Gold" really applies here.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#14

Post by Blerv »

Sorry JD! I didn't take it hard but assumed negative meant something else.

I'm totally with you. Wait for tech to catch up and having high-powered usb charged flashlights integrated with folders will probably be commonplace.

I think it would be an awesome venture for Spyderco but only if they can find a way to do it well. Maybe a flashlight maker could supply the replaceable light/scale and they could fab up the rest?
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#15

Post by Donut »

Sorry for not checking this thread for a while.

I like CR123's and Surefire is rebadging some safe rechargeable CR123's (LifePO4's).

Now, pick a Spyerco knife and figure out how you'll fit a CR123 or two into it. I think it's a pretty big challenge.

I agree that people, myself included, are negative to the idea that it can be done and it can be done well.

Have you seen 47's attachment methods? They have ways of carrying a light without using the inside of your hand. I forget what accessories come with a Zebralight, but I remember when I opened the flashlight box there were many ways of attaching the light.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#16

Post by defenestrate »

I will say that Brite Strike did one thing that makes me smile, and that is to include a red LED. most bugs can't see it, and it is not so hard on the eyes compared to more bluish bright colors at night in my experience.

I would change a few things. First, instead of one light that points to the knife's tip, I would put an led on either side of the blade and use a parabolic reflector to shine a wide beam on each side of the blade, including most of the blade one would be cutting with.
I'd line up the 2 lights and grind so that there is a thin shadow directly under the blade - you'd be able not only to see what was being cut, but almost precisely where the blade will go, especially when up close for fine work.

I'd put a round hole in that blade, probably make it a plain edged leaf blade, and have a kind of plump handle on account of 1 or 2 cell-phone-ish Li-ion batteries, or possibly supercapacitors, depending on which performs better.

I'd make the steel something that a knife afi from THIS millennium could be proud of.
simple, commoditized charger running off microUSB just like a modern phone.

surely, Blerv, at least for a modest light output, 1-2 Li-ion cells and part of the handle itself can serve as heatsink. I'm thinking the handles might have a largish footprint, but with a purpose.

THEN, I could see charging triple digits. In fact, if someone is willing to work with me on this (surely we can find a value series or byrd that wouldn't be completely heretical to modify a little bit. I'd actually want to try a knife like that - great for night gardening? ;)
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#17

Post by bearfacedkiller »

I think this is a great idea for certain applications. What about a small led light on the rescue or even better the assist. I don't see a "flashlight" on a knife as a great idea but a small led "utility light" built into the guard shining down the cutting edge so you can see what you are cutting in dark places might be useful. My Craftsman cordless drill has a small single LED shining on the bit and at times it has been very useful.

I would think that seeing what you are cutting in the dark could be very useful in an emergency situation and the Assist already has some extra gadgets on it. A small LED doesn't seem any less useful than a whistle or a glass breaker to me.

I EDC at least one light and usually two so this doesn't interest me very much but I see an application for it.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#18

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

Really sorry but I just couldn't help myself...

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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#19

Post by JD Spydo »

Blerv wrote:Sorry JD! I didn't take it hard but assumed negative meant something else.

I'm totally with you. Wait for tech to catch up and having high-powered usb charged flashlights integrated with folders will probably be commonplace.

I think it would be an awesome venture for Spyderco but only if they can find a way to do it well. Maybe a flashlight maker could supply the replaceable light/scale and they could fab up the rest?
MY memory is starting to kick in all of a sudden. There is a knife company that you hear very little about>> probably because their target market is for sailors, sail-boaters and many other marine applications. The company I'm speaking of is Myerchin. I do now remember that they had or still have one or two folders on the market with map reading lights in them. And I have no idea what type of battery set up they have either. That's been about 3 years ago when I looked at their stuff.

I wasn't too impressed with them as a company with some of the stuff I seen and how they use very old and antiquated blade steels on their high dollar knives. But you can put them down as having lights incorporated on their folders for map reading. I would say that a light primarily used for map reading probably wouldn't have a very high lumen rating I'm sure. So I guess the concept has been around longer than I realized. No other company comes to mind at this point. I first gave it some creedence because the issues I've read so far in OFF GRID magazine has been very well done and most of the products that they pitch are usually high quality.
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Re: KNIVES With Flashlights Built Inside

#20

Post by Blerv »

No experience with Myerchin but their site is interesting.

I had a small keychain knife in the past with an integrated LED. I was a younger kid and it was a Chinese/gas station-type trinket. It had like a 3MM led and was bright enough for map reading, for sure.

It all comes down to the goal. Output, throw, easy of battery charging/replacement, expectations of ergos, etc. A small flashlight is just a battery tube with half an inch of electronics built-in. A knife is typically two flat slabs with half an inch of lock and pivot that houses a blade. Combining the two is going to make things bulky unless expectations are a very low level of light.
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