Your thoughts on S90V

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gull wing
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Your thoughts on S90V

#1

Post by gull wing »

What are your experiences?
Does it take a super sharp edge and hold it a long time?
How does compare with 204P?
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#2

Post by bdblue »

S90V is supposed to be a small step above above 204P in edge-holding.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#3

Post by Cliff Stamp »

The simplest way to understand steels is to compare them to things you have experienced. For example have you used a very nice 52100 knife compared to a D2 knife? S90V compares to 204P in a similar manner.

S90V has one of the highest low stress wear resistances of stainless steels (and even non-stainless steels), but in terms of strength, toughness, etc. isn't superior to 204P and it is lower in properties such as edge stability, grindability, etc. .

I once gave a S90V fillet knife (Phil Wilson) to a bunch of fisherman who loved it because of how long it would stay at the ability to just cut cod without tearing (low sharpness on a slice). However I have given S90V blades to carpenters who are not impressed with the ability to hold a high sharpness on wood and were not at all pleased with sharpening it. I have given it to general tradespeople and had them not impressed at all due to lack of toughness and poor maintenance (hard to grind). But other tradespeople were very pleased as it does well doing things like cutting cardboard and fibreglass for a long time, again slicing at a low sharpness.
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gull wing
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#4

Post by gull wing »

Thank you both for the response.
Clif, thanks for putting it the way you did. I do have experience with 204P and like it a lot. I like the edge I can get on it plus it holds the great edge long enough to satisfy me.
I don't have high demands of blade steel, mostly a very sharp edge for a decent amount of time.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#5

Post by Surfingringo »

gull wing wrote:Thank you both for the response.
Clif, thanks for putting it the way you did. I do have experience with 204P and like it a lot. I like the edge I can get on it plus it holds the great edge long enough to satisfy me.
I don't have high demands of blade steel, mostly a very sharp edge for a decent amount of time.
IMHO s90v is not the best steel to satisfy this requirement. Cliffs synopsis pretty much mirrors my experience with the steel. Because I like working at a very high level of sharpness and am willing to sharpen a bit more often to maintain that, s90v is not one of my favorites.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#6

Post by gull wing »

Why?
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#7

Post by GoldenSpydie »

I like S90V more or less. I have it in 2 PM2s and a Yojimbo.

The Yojimbo's edge is touched up on the Spyderco medium bench stone. Sharpening is difficult if the edge is damaged at all, but routine touchups are fairly easy. It doesn't hold an edge forever, but as others said, it will keep a moderate edge for a long time.

I haven't done I lot with the PM2s, but I have sharpened them a little and carried them a few times. With this low usage, I have not been able to really put the steel to the test.

Overall, I would say it is maybe a little better at holding an edge than 204P if you are ok with a relatively low level of sharpness. S110V is superior to S90V as it will hold a very sharp edge for even longer in my experience. For sharpening, 204P is much easier to sharpen on the Sharpmaker than S90V.

Of course, what is this thread without pictures of S90V? :D

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Last edited by GoldenSpydie on Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#8

Post by bdblue »

GoldenSpydie wrote:Of course, what is this thread without pictures of S90V? :D
OK, S90V and above...

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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#9

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Surfingringo wrote:IMHO s90v is not the best steel to satisfy this requirement.
What steel does from what you have seen, and how dull is a knife before you sharpen it (i.e. what does very sharp mean to you?).
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#10

Post by Surfingringo »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Surfingringo wrote:IMHO s90v is not the best steel to satisfy this requirement.
What steel does from what you have seen, and how dull is a knife before you sharpen it (i.e. what does very sharp mean to you?).
I usually gauge sharpness with my thumb. I use the "three finger" when the blade or my hands are wet, but when dry I can get better feedback from my thumb. As to a more quantifiable description of what I consider an acceptable level of sharpness let's use shaving arm hair without having to scrape...it's not very precise but it gives a vague idea at least. Another test I like to use is to put the edge against my beard and see if it "grabs". If it does it is still very sharp.

I have been comparing s90v to high hardness m4 lately. I find that I can consistently get the m4 to take a slightly finer edge on a 1000 grit stone and up. Interestingly enough, I find that I can get the s90v to take a slightly more aggressive edge at 600 grit and below. The biggest performance difference I see between the two is that when both are sharpened to a finer edge (1000 grit finish) the m4 will hold that high level of sharpness significantly longer than the s90v. Now these are different knives from different makers with different heat treats so we can't read too much into the results but I guess they are worth looking at as a data point at least.

I have seen enough that given my affinity for working with a bit finer edge, I would choose m4 over s90v for my next knife. If I wanted to sharpen to, and work with, a very aggressive edge I might be more inclined to choose the s90v.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#11

Post by Evil D »

I think this really has more to do with your uses than anything else, there's no such thing as a bad steel. Personally I prefer a steel that holds an edge long term, since for what I use knives for, those steels that hold a fine "high level of sharpness" edge lose that edge anyway within the first few uses so to enjoy that level of sharpness I'd have to carry a sharpening device with me and sharpen several times a day. My s110v has made 2000 cuts through double wall corrugated and will still shave my arm...that's plenty for me.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#12

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Surfingringo wrote: I find that I can consistently get the m4 to take a slightly finer edge on a 1000 grit stone and up. Interestingly enough, I find that I can get the s90v to take a slightly more aggressive edge at 600 grit and below.
What abrasives are you using?

The biggest performance difference I see between the two is that when both are sharpened to a finer edge (1000 grit finish) the m4 will hold that high level of sharpness significantly longer than the s90v.
I would be curious to see at what point in HSS would you find that tenancy to reverse as there are HSS which are much higher in carbide than M4.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#13

Post by Surfingringo »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Surfingringo wrote: I find that I can consistently get the m4 to take a slightly finer edge on a 1000 grit stone and up. Interestingly enough, I find that I can get the s90v to take a slightly more aggressive edge at 600 grit and below.
What abrasives are you using?

The biggest performance difference I see between the two is that when both are sharpened to a finer edge (1000 grit finish) the m4 will hold that high level of sharpness significantly longer than the s90v.
I would be curious to see at what point in HSS would you find that tenancy to reverse as there are HSS which are much higher in carbide than M4.
Using mostly Lansky and DMT diamond stones. Sometimes use the brown rods from the sharpmaker.

Speaking of the m4, I have another knife coming in this steel. This one is 63 instead of 65 so it will be interesting to see how it responds to the stones and the same cutting chores as the harder m4.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#14

Post by sdedalus83 »

Evil D wrote:I think this really has more to do with your uses than anything else, there's no such thing as a bad steel. Personally I prefer a steel that holds an edge long term, since for what I use knives for, those steels that hold a fine "high level of sharpness" edge lose that edge anyway within the first few uses so to enjoy that level of sharpness I'd have to carry a sharpening device with me and sharpen several times a day. My s110v has made 2000 cuts through double wall corrugated and will still shave my arm...that's plenty for me.
Isn't the big advantage S110v has over S90v significantly higher reasonably attainable hardness, resulting in better high sharpness retention and less carbide tear out?
I carry a serrated Robin2 at work, a Cara Cara Rescue 2 in the glove box, and a ZDP Dragonfly or Junior everywhere else. My PM2 sits on a shelf with a small assortment of Kershaws.
Waiting patiently for the Native 5 lightweight and the Lil' Temperance 2.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#15

Post by Cliff Stamp »

sdedalus83 wrote: Isn't the big advantage S110v has over S90v significantly higher reasonably attainable hardness, resulting in better high sharpness retention and less carbide tear out?
The main advantage is a higher carbide volume through the addition of niobium and increased corrosion resistance through Chromium/Molybdenum. Both require a very high soak, oil + deep quench to achieve maximum hardness. S110V has a 1-2 HRC point gain in terms of ultimate hardness, that would not compensate edge stability wise for the increased carbide volume, see Landes work for more detail.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#16

Post by gull wing »

I know I like D2 the best, with M4, VG10, 204P also good.
but:
:confused: :confused: Gosh, I can't follow this.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#17

Post by Evil D »

gull wing wrote:I know I like D2 the best, with M4, VG10, 204P also good.
but:
:confused: :confused: Gosh, I can't follow this.

Get yourself a 110 Manix 2. They're reasonably cheap considering the steel you get, and they shouldn't be hard to resell if you hate the steel. All this internet mumbo jumbo is really just bench racing. You won't know until you try it yourself. People said it was a nightmare to sharpen, and it chips easy, and it won't take a fine edge, and I haven't experienced any of that myself. I actually find it easier to sharpen than 204P and ZDP. I think it's much more forgiving of "poor technique".
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#18

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Evil D wrote:... All this internet mumbo jumbo ...
Yes, science on Spyderco's forums it is just "mumbo jumbo", as the real way to knowledge is to ignore materials data and perform experiments with no scientific controls and use them to infer steel characteristics. It is a good thing the people who actually make the steel don't ascribe to the same beliefs.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

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Post by Evil D »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Evil D wrote:... All this internet mumbo jumbo ...
Yes, science on Spyderco's forums it is just "mumbo jumbo", as the real way to knowledge is to ignore materials data and perform experiments with no scientific controls and use them to infer steel characteristics. It is a good thing the people who actually make the steel don't ascribe to the same beliefs.

LOL Lighten up Francis. My point was that he should try it out for himself and don't get so caught up in the paperwork. At the end of the day we can sit on the internet and spout off data all day long but experience will always matter more to me than what the numbers say. I don't cut stuff with material data sheets. If X works better for me than Y or Z, then X gets my money.
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Re: Your thoughts on S90V

#20

Post by MacLaren »

Evil D wrote:
Cliff Stamp wrote:
Evil D wrote:... All this internet mumbo jumbo ...
Yes, science on Spyderco's forums it is just "mumbo jumbo", as the real way to knowledge is to ignore materials data and perform experiments with no scientific controls and use them to infer steel characteristics. It is a good thing the people who actually make the steel don't ascribe to the same beliefs.

LOL Lighten up Francis. My point was that he should try it out for himself and don't get so caught up in the paperwork. At the end of the day we can sit on the internet and spout off data all day long but experience will always matter more to me than what the numbers say. I don't cut stuff with material data sheets. If X works better for me than Y or Z, then X gets my money.
I couldn't agree more.
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