The Magic of Tool Steel/Modern Steel?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I was discussing steel and swords with a friend of mine, and I remarked that if we hypothetically took a time machine, and brought a Japanese samurai and steel expert from say the 1500s and a Medieval sword maker and sword user to the modern world, and gave them a tour of modern scrap yards, and modern steel foundries, and let them examine all the amazing alloys, especially TOOL STEEL ALLOYS like A2 and O1 and things like H1 and VG10 Steel, these guys from back then would consider what we have today to be like MAGIC. They would be amazed and shocked in a good way and would be like "wow! you people must be wizards to make such metals with such amazing properties."

My friend told me the Japanese sword-maker from back then would not be that impressed when it came to actual field-grade battle-grade metal; that there has not been that much overall improvement on their forge-laminated blades, as far as real world battle ready steel goes. That the most they would be impressed by would be the rust and corrosion-resistance of some of our modern alloys. And that to really consider it to be magical, they would have to see things beyond what we even have today, such as the theoretical "focused light blades".

What do you think? Would a 16th century black smith be absolutely amazed at even a modern junk yard and what materials it contains or no?

My friend then told me, if the Japanese Samurai of that period (16th century etc) were to see the modern cheapo wall hanger katanas and tanto knives stamped out by the thousands they would be absolutely disgusted and offended, and would want to take off the head of whoever would make such an inferior blade.

[demoncase]

I think they would be more impressed with electricity and myriad pieces of equipment that it powers.

A lightbulb contains more to wow a 16th century mind- in construction, materials and purpose- than anything they could relate to.

Edit: I was once involved in one of those '7 beers up' discussions about what you would take BACK to the 16th-17th century to allow you to be a king/God/wizard: Most of my friends plumped for an AK47. My answer was modern antibiotics and anaesthetics

[The Deacon]

I agree with Arthur C Clarke that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". So yes, they would most certainly be amazed, although I suspect that today's steels would be low on the list of things they found amazing.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Removing a device from one's pocket, and showing them the Internet... :D
Now THAT would blow their minds... :eek:

( Especially your collection of LOL cats, and everywhere that you KNEW that a forumite was WRONG !!! ) :p

[Cliff Stamp]

What do you think? Would a 16th century black smith be absolutely amazed at even a modern junk yard and what materials it contains or no?

They still use the same steels in the very high end Japanese cutlery, White steel is just a high carbon very pure steel.

However given the massive amount of raw materials, they likely would be surprised given how hard it was to obtain steel in the past and how anyone now can buy it readily. They actually had to make it and then refine it through hammer forging.

The thing that might surprise them about steels is :

-how steels like A2 can air harden
-the high red hardness of HSS
-the extreme wear resistance of something like 10V

I don't think they would actually use them to make knives (they don't replace White steel now) but they are likely to at least find it curious.

I think they would be more amazed if you tried to explain to them why people like Kim Kardashian are famous.

[jabba359]

I think they would be more amazed if you tried to explain to them why people like Kim Kardashian are famous.

I'm still amazed these people are famous. No time travel required. :D

[JD Spydo]

I think they would be more amazed if you tried to explain to them why people like Kim Kardashian are famous.

Hey Cliff just for grins you could add Madonna, Don King and Marilyn Manson to that list as well :D And where else could Alice Cooper, Kid Rock and Axel Rose actually considered to be artists :eek: But it's like Brother Don King has always said "ONLY IN AMERICA!!!"

But seriously the Samurai were pounding out world class swords when supposedly a guy named Columbus was said to have discovered this country. Two of my deceased Uncles who fought valiantly in World War II both told me before they died that the one sovenir that most all the WWII soldiers wanted more than anything were those Japanese Swords. So they must have been at least reasonably good by today's standards???

[Cliff Stamp]

If you want some interesting reading, look for articles on ultra-high carbon steels. These steels are being reintroduced into modern tooling due to the ability to combine very high toughness, strength and wear resistance. These are the same steels often praised in very ancient swords/tools, commonly called bulat, wootz, etc. . We are rediscovering now how to process them to make very amazing gains in mechanical properties.