Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

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JD Spydo
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Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#1

Post by JD Spydo »

I've been saturated in the subject of survival for almost 15 to 16 years now and I've gathered a lot of valuable information over the years. It wasn't so popular when I first got interested in the subject of survival and prepping for disasters.

The two most important skills to attain in order to assure that you live to see the next day are without any doubt the skill of making fire ( without matches if necessary) and the skill of making water potable ( drinkable).

Making water drinkable without the worry of becoming sick and the ability to make fire to keep warm and cook food are truly the 2 most essential and most important skills one can attain. Now they aren't the only skills you need but they are at the very top of the list without any argument.

I know from talking to a lot of you by PM that there are some of you here at Spyderville that are also serious students of survivalism. So what do you all do to cover those 2 items? What method do you all use to make water drinkable ( potable)?

Also what fire making methods do you all have just in case you have no acceess to matches or other conventional firemaking methods? What tools do you all use for these survival jobs?
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Evil D
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#2

Post by Evil D »

I'm not the best at either one to be honest, but they're things I'd like to learn just for the fun of it. Those pretty much are the 2 essential elements to survival, and are without a doubt the two primary elements that allowed man to progress to where he is today.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#3

Post by xceptnl »

Being an Eagle Scout whom spent many weeks of my childhood in the woods with no electricity and mostly only the essentials we could carry / hike into our sites, I still try to be as prepared as possible for most all situations. I usually keep a small Altoids tin in my bag with a waterproof tube of matches, a small ferrocerium rod, fish hook, fishing line, needle, thread, razorblade, aqua tabs, bandaids, alchohol swab, qtips, cotton balls, etc. Usually my best prep is the 1.5L of water I carry with me on a daily basis. I always have a desire to improve my kit and skills when survival is concerned.
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yablanowitz
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#4

Post by yablanowitz »

My problem is, to make water potable, you must first have water. Around here, that means kiss your butt goodbye, since the average water well is now 1400 feet deep, through two or three rock strata. Good luck with that.
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Evil D
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#5

Post by Evil D »

yablanowitz wrote:My problem is, to make water potable, you must first have water. Around here, that means kiss your butt goodbye, since the average water well is now 1400 feet deep, through two or three rock strata. Good luck with that.
Sounds like you need to harden up and drink your own pee LOL :D
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#6

Post by Enkidude »

I would agree with your assessment assuming you are properly clothed for the environment you are in. Exposure to the elements will kill you before anything else.

Learning how to find water and material for fire making (no matter what method you are using to START the fire) are just as important as knowing how to start a fire and purify water.

Having a metal container is the most important thing for water because obviously it can hold the water, but it can also boil the water which will make it 100% safe for consumption barring any chemicals in the water. Learning creative ways to find and collect water will prove useful(collecting morning dew with something absorbent, finding water in the crooks of trees, in upturned leaves, etc).

I personally like to practice primitive fire making when I get a chance. Makes a ferrocerium rod seem easy.
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wrdwrght
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#7

Post by wrdwrght »

yablanowitz wrote:My problem is, to make water potable, you must first have water. Around here, that means kiss your butt goodbye, since the average water well is now 1400 feet deep, through two or three rock strata. Good luck with that.
Are you talking about the disappearing Oglalla Aquifer?
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yablanowitz
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#8

Post by yablanowitz »

wrdwrght wrote:
yablanowitz wrote:My problem is, to make water potable, you must first have water. Around here, that means kiss your butt goodbye, since the average water well is now 1400 feet deep, through two or three rock strata. Good luck with that.
Are you talking about the disappearing Oglalla Aquifer?
That's the closest water available. After seven years of drought (we're under 24" total for the last five years), there isn't any surface water left, and all the shallow aquifers are long gone. If you have no electricity and you can't get an irrigation engine running, your only hope of survival here is to take whatever water you have and head for the horizon.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#9

Post by Trout Hound »

Any time I venture out into the wilderness, I carry the following:

Fire
Light My Fire Army 2.0 firesteel, in my pocket
LMF Scout 2.0, in my bag
UCI stormproof matches (25), in plastic waterproof container, with extra striking panels
Jumbo cotton balls, covered in petroleum jelly, packed in plastic waterproof match case
Several sticks of pitch wood

Water
One bottle of Potable Aqua tablets
40 oz. Wide Mouth Klean Kanteen

As long as I gather enough good fuel, I can get a fire going with the firesteel, cotton ball tinder, and pitch wood even in pretty ugly conditions. The UCI matches are a backup, but they are pretty impressive.

The iodine tablets work well to purify water quickly. They don't kill cryptosporidium spores, but they also don't take 4 hours, and that isn't really a huge concern in most of the areas where I venture. I can also boil water in my stainless Klean Kanteen.

I plan to add the following items to my kit as my budget allows:
Esbit folding pocket stove
1L folding water reservoir
GSI Glacier Cup
Fish mouth spreader (to use in KK mouth for moving in and out of fire)
Lifestraw (can be used to gather even very small amounts of water from rock crevices, etc.)
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#10

Post by DeathBySnooSnoo »

These are skills that I know I should learn. But to help keep me going I always have this in my bag http://goinggear.com/survival/fire/ligh ... ghter.html" target="_blank
At least it will get a fire or two going....
JD Spydo
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#11

Post by JD Spydo »

yablanowitz wrote:My problem is, to make water potable, you must first have water. Around here, that means kiss your butt goodbye, since the average water well is now 1400 feet deep, through two or three rock strata. Good luck with that.
Hey "Yablanowitz" I don't live too awful far from you. I'm just across the state line over here in Missouri and just a bit north of where you're at. Don't you have streams, rivers, lakes, reservoirs or even branches that lead into creeks and rivers? Most of the places I've been at in Kansas had water sources. You can do without a well or aquifer if you have the right filtering equipment and be able to boil the water to be on the safe side. Because you can take one of those great water filters like the "MSR" or Katadyn units or even a gravity fed Aquarain or BRitish Berkfeld water filter to get out most of the desbris and then boil the water afterwards for ultimate safety. Filtering alone with the right equipment has saved me on a couple of occasions while camping in the deep forests. But boiling it afterwards will assure you very safe water indeed.

I do know that Kansas doesn't have as many streams or other water sources as Missouri does but most of the places I've been at in Kansas has sources for water>> but then you have to filter it and then disinfect it by boiling it.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#12

Post by OldSarSwmr »

I believe proper shelter is more important than the need for fire and even water in an immediate survival situation. In certain environments/conditions death from exposure can occur within hours and within minutes if we a talking water immersion.

I may have a different opinion on the priority of the importance of fire and water in a survival situation but the OP made me think of what scenarios my current lifestyle may lead to. For years there was a high possibility that I could find myself trying to survive in a wilderness/near wilderness situation. Now, I'm in the burbs most of the time and when I do venture out kayaking or hiking it's not quite as adventurous as it was in my younger days. So what will be my survival situation most likely be? Short term (car off the road)? Natural disaster (hurricane)? Civil unrest (shelter in place)? My friends and I joke that are best gear in our survival kits are our cell phones and credit cards. ;)

I started to think of what my current prep has focused on and I came to the realization that it has been on fire and water! I have purchased and made multiple fire starting kits over the last few years. Ferro rods, magnesium blocks, matches, lighters, tinder kits, Vaseline gauze and on and on. I have them in every vehicle, in my backpack and in different parts of the house. For water I have gone to the use of survival straws, packing my fire kits in coffee cans that can be used to boil water in and bulk water containers for the house. Not very cool but cost effective and it works for me.

I still believe proper shelter is more critical than fire and water but that is usually constructed with resources available in your surroundings and enhanced with things like a poncho, space blanket, para-cord etc. Water and fire are essential and the skills and equipment to provide both can significantly increase your chances of making it through a survival situation.

Thanks for posing this question JD, it made me take inventory of where I am today and what am I preparing for.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#13

Post by JD Spydo »

I appreciate your input "OldSarSWMR">> even though we might disagree on that point you still make some valid points and that's what is great about this forum is that we can sure compare notes and compare ideas as well.

But I still hold to my guns on fire & water being my 2 most important priorites. Now don't get me wrong because shelter is very important especially if you're in a rain forest and/or a tropical area where constant bombardment of the sun's rays are a potential threat to your health and well being. And if you can't keep dry and warm it's going to be hard to maintain comfort.

But without fire it's going to be virtually impossible to stay warm, cook food, disinfect water by boiling or even dry your clothes if they get wet. Not only is shelter important it's one of the skills I pay close attention to when I'm viewing one of the popular survival shows on Discovery, or the Science Channel. There are so many ways to construct shelter that there needs to be knowledge on the basics of shelter construction. It's especially important to engineer a roof on your shelter to shed water, snow and ice. Because without staying dry it's virtually impossible to stay warm. And hypothermia claims a lot of lives of people who are stranded in desperate situations or in natural disasters.

But don't forget that the human body will shut down if you go more than 2 to 3 days without water. You can go several days without food even though it would be very uncomfortable>> but water is a high priority just to stay alive.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#14

Post by Trout Hound »

The most efficient way I know to provide yourself with shelter in a survival situation is to carry a heavy duty 55 gal. drum liner in your kit. Use your knife to cut a slit in the side of the bag, just above the bottom seam, to stick your face through, and climb in. You can sit on the ground up against a tree or something, and, assuming that you are wearing proper clothes for the situation, you will stay reasonably warm and dry. It ain't no California King bed, but you'll make it through the night, and you can carry it with you everywhere and deploy it in two minutes, whereas other improvised shelter methods take much longer and may not work as well. If you get a bag in International Orange or light blue, it can double as a rectangular marker for search aircraft.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#15

Post by JD Spydo »

Trout Hound wrote:The most efficient way I know to provide yourself with shelter in a survival situation is to carry a heavy duty 55 gal. drum liner in your kit. Use your knife to cut a slit in the side of the bag, just above the bottom seam, to stick your face through, and climb in. You can sit on the ground up against a tree or something, and, assuming that you are wearing proper clothes for the situation, you will stay reasonably warm and dry. It ain't no California King bed, but you'll make it through the night, and you can carry it with you everywhere and deploy it in two minutes, whereas other improvised shelter methods take much longer and may not work as well. If you get a bag in International Orange or light blue, it can double as a rectangular marker for search aircraft.
That's quite interesting TROUT HOUND>> shelter is important no doubt and that is certainly something to take a look at>> I'm wondering if a plastic, food grade barrel would even be better because metal tends to transpose cold a lot more than plastic does.

Back to Fire & Water: I just read a very interesting article in the Sept/Oct issue of the "Backwoodsman" magazine. They were talking about the advantages of using a 'ferrocerium" rod. THey say you can buy the material in bulk in different sizes and even make your own striking rod. They also say that the advantages of the ferrocerium rod is that it produces Sparks much more effectively and can start fires twice as easy as anything else currently on the market.

Also in the area of water: I've been using an "AQUARAIN" gravity fed, ceramic filter for years with excellent results. The AQUARAIN company which is here in Missouri also markets a portable unit called the MSR. They told me that they tried several and the ones they liked the best were the Swiss made "Katadyn" and the "MSR" units. Because having a portable but yet efficient unit could be life saving needless to say. Great comments so far guys keep them coming please :)
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#16

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Just wait till we have semi-advanced personal diamondoid nanotechnology and man oh man the changes that will sweep the world!

Imagine a personal 'universal driller': It consists of active, computer-controlled telescoping collapsible diamondoid (diamond like shatter proof super-composite) drill head and hollow cable. You release it and the molecular drill heads can drill down deep into the Earth, and, because it is made of active, computer controlled machines within machines, use sensor systems to find whatever mineral, metal, material, or target you desire. The interior is filled with molecular conveyor machinery that can mimic the capillary actions of plants and cilia of bacteria, or, be more advanced, and you can extract whatever you want from the Earth, from carbon and chromium, to water and petroleum, as long as those materials are present.

Individuals will have the power that only the very rich and big governments have had. A beautiful world.

Biomimetic and engineered nano molecular water systems could use sunlight and chemical energy to extract water from the air, and turn salt water and the dirtiest polluted water into fresh, pure drinking water.

A nanotech survival kit.

But, ofcourse, that does not exist yet.

I saw a very cool survival pack which consisted of a 5 gallon plastic bucket with plastic toilet seat to use as a makeshift toilet, and inside, it contained a knife, first aid kit, emergency food, tube tent, water container, paracord, and some other items.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#17

Post by Trout Hound »

JD Spydo wrote:That's quite interesting TROUT HOUND>> shelter is important no doubt and that is certainly something to take a look at>> I'm wondering if a plastic, food grade barrel would even be better because metal tends to transpose cold a lot more than plastic does.

Back to Fire & Water: I just read a very interesting article in the Sept/Oct issue of the "Backwoodsman" magazine. They were talking about the advantages of using a 'ferrocerium" rod. THey say you can buy the material in bulk in different sizes and even make your own striking rod. They also say that the advantages of the ferrocerium rod is that it produces Sparks much more effectively and can start fires twice as easy as anything else currently on the market.
Oh, I was just talking about using a drum liner, like a trash bag, not the actual metal drum itself. (That could be a bit difficult to fold up in your daypack.) :p

There is wide variation in the quality of ferrocerium rods, especially the ones available in bulk. You can get them on eBay out of China, Hong Kong, etc., but what you get might well be too hard, too soft, or worse, especially prone to corrosion. Firesteel.com is a good source for blank and drilled rods. More expensive, but good quality. Personally, I love my Light My Fire Swedish firesteels. They throw a nice big spark, and they are well known for quality. I can tell you for sure that they give you a much nicer spark than the $5.00 Coughlan's firesteels.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#18

Post by Trout Hound »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: I saw a very cool survival pack which consisted of a 5 gallon plastic bucket with plastic toilet seat to use as a makeshift toilet, and inside, it contained a knife, first aid kit, emergency food, tube tent, water container, paracord, and some other items.
Well, I never thought about a packable toilet being a necessary survival item. I always figured if I'm stuck in the woods with nobody else around, I should have my choice of "facilities." Just make sure everybody in your party knows to remove the contents of the bucket BEFORE you use it as a head. :p
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#19

Post by phillipsted »

xceptnl wrote:Being an Eagle Scout whom spent many weeks of my childhood in the woods with no electricity and mostly only the essentials we could carry / hike into our sites, I still try to be as prepared as possible for most all situations. I usually keep a small Altoids tin in my bag with a waterproof tube of matches, a small ferrocerium rod, fish hook, fishing line, needle, thread, razorblade, aqua tabs, bandaids, alchohol swab, qtips, cotton balls, etc. Usually my best prep is the 1.5L of water I carry with me on a daily basis. I always have a desire to improve my kit and skills when survival is concerned.
I'm an Eagle Scout as well - and a couple of the Adults in our Troop are leading a Wilderness Survival merit badge class this year. Should be a lot of fun. In case you aren't involved in Scouting, here are the requirements the Scouts must meet to earn the badge:

TedP

=====

Boy Scouts Wilderness Survival Merit Badge

1. Explain to your counselor the hazards you are most likely to encounter while participating in wilderness survival activities, and what you should do to anticipate, help prevent, mitigate, or lessen these hazards.
2. Show that you know first aid for and how to prevent injuries or illnesses that could occur in backcountry settings, including hypothermia, heat reactions, frostbite, dehydration, blisters, insect stings, tick bites, and snakebites.
3. From memory, list the seven priorities for survival in a backcountry or wilderness location. Explain the importance of each one with your councelor.
4. Discuss ways to avoid panic and maintain a high level of morale when lost, and explain why this is important.
5. Describe the steps you would take to survive in the following conditions:
a. Cold and snowy
b. Wet (forest)
c. Hot and dry (desert)
d. Windy (mountains or plains)
e. Water (ocean, lake, or river)
6. Put together a personal survival kit and explain how each item in it could be useful
7. Using three different methods (other than matches), build and light three fires.
8. Do the following:
a. Show five different ways to attract attention when lost.
b. Demonstrate how to use a signal mirror.
c. Describe from memory five ground-to-air signals and tell what they mean.
9. Improvise a natural shelter. For the purpose of this demonstration, use techniques that have little negative impact on the environment. Spend a night in your shelter.
10. Explain how to protect yourself from insects, reptiles, and bears.
11. Demonstrate three ways to treat water found in the outdoors to prepare it for drinking.
12. Show that you know the proper clothing to wear in your area on an overnight in extremely hot weather and in extremely cold weather.
13. Explain why it usually is not wise to eat edible wild plants or wildlife in a wilderness survival situation.
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Re: Fire & Water: Survival's 2 Essential

#20

Post by JD Spydo »

Hey thanks for sharing that with us Ted :) I must admit that I know very little about the Eagle Scout organization but with what you've just shared with us I'm darned tempted to learn more. That's a very impressive list of activities and goals that are set forth in that package. When I was in Boy Scouts many decades ago the format was completely different and there was very little taught about wilderness or survival type skills.

That is a great list of goals for anyone who has motivation to learn survival and wilderness skills. But you know any group of like minded people could learn those skills and I do hope there are more community oriented groups that are learning preparedness skills. Most of your survival and wilderness skills just boil down to the implementation of just good old common sense and mastering skills that we all should already know a lot about. But like most other people I spent the majority of my adolescence and adulthood striving to be entertained rather than learning how to survive. But the good old Days as I once knew them are rapidly disappearing and now it's become a necessity to learn those skills you have listed so well for us.

Again TED I sincerely thank you for that excellent contribution. And we don't have to limit this thread to just FIRE & WATER alone. Because there is certainly more to staying alive than just mastering those 2 skills. Great responses guys>> keep them coming :)
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