Protection against "Knock Out Game" thugs?

[paladin]

Highway/Byway robbery & assault have been a problem in every era of man.

Trust your instincts when something "tells" you a situation is sketchy....think about it-- the fact you're reading this post is proof you have the DNA of homo sapiens that had great "situational awareness."

You're living proof of survival of the fittest...trust that voice deep in the primitive part of your brain!

Keep your eye on groups of suspect characters or even clean-cut looking young dudes in packs...

Some antelope "stalk" lions keeping them in line of sight but outside the danger zone...

But, IMHO-- Risk mitigation is even more effective than situational awareness...

I recognize it limits your liberties to travel where you want, when you want, how you want...

Commute at hours when the thugs are hung over / sleeping...i.e. "Work" rush hour...

Also, when walking, attach yourself to a group of pedestrians near the center of the group when practicable...

works for zebras ...and they get up every morning EXPECTING to get attacked...

Lastly, keeping with the Darwinistic theme...remember : "All God's critters have knives!"

[OldHoosier62]

As the 'knockout game' is by now a traditional manner of non-white assault against whites, you would do best 'defensively' first by not frequenting areas with large crowds of non-whites.

A lot of white people have allowed themselves to become prey

Way to make contact violence a race issue. Shame on you guys.

The so-called knockout game has claimed to date something like 6 lives. Anyone who is talking about it is basically fearmongering. This is a Spyderco knife forum. If you don't have something to say about Spyderco knives I suggest you take it elsewhere.

How nice of you to dismiss thousands of violent attacks AND the deaths of six human beings. Not too classy, but it IS politically correct.

[Monocrom]

With regards to the racism aspect, I live in NYC. Tons of surveillance cameras everywhere on the streets. I've seen footage of young Black teens targeting elderly individuals. Yes, many were Black too. Some of these punks show a bit of "bravery" by targeting middle-aged fellow Black citizens.

[Mic1]

As the 'knockout game' is by now a traditional manner of non-white assault against whites, you would do best 'defensively' first by not frequenting areas with large crowds of non-whites.

A lot of white people have allowed themselves to become prey

Way to make contact violence a race issue. Shame on you guys.

The so-called knockout game has claimed to date something like 6 lives. Anyone who is talking about it is basically fearmongering. This is a Spyderco knife forum. If you don't have something to say about Spyderco knives I suggest you take it elsewhere.

I live near chicago. I watch the news every night let me tell you something pal it's not racism it's fact here. In the black community there is a problem with violence. Blacks kill blacks day after day here woman, kids, elderly etc. The PC fruitloops don't want to talk about it but it's a real problem. It's not the guns which is such a copout, an easy scapegoat to avoid talking about the real nasty ugly issue. Blacks kill Blacks here (statistically much higher than whites or hispanics) by beating each other to death or stabbing and every other way you can take a life. It needs to be addressed and not sugar coated with PC nonsense. The only way it gets fixed is by the black community addressing for what it is a culture that has become popular within their community of violence and thug behavior. It can only be changed from within. But ya as a white guy when I am in Chicago and a group of black youth approach behaving or just dressed like thugs the reptile part of my brain that says beware or run kicks in and you're a liar if you say your little reptile does not say the same thing. They want it that way or they would not behave that way. So stop making excuses and acting like it does not exist or trying to shame people when they address it for what it is. Same in the opposite when I get my haircut the woman who has been doing it for years (she is black) I don't even see her that way I see a working mom like mine raising two boys or the two black oldtimer marines who come into my family gun store every Saturday to shoot to me their just two old marines who make me smile and laugh and have great stories. Great guys who by the way agree with me about this. It's not the color of the skin that defines it for me I know plenty of whites and hispanics over the years that cause my reptile brain to kick in too. It's your behavior and culture and right now in time there is a popular culture within the black community of violence and thug behavior.

If you were an alien and all you watched was my Local news you would be racist or bare minimum have a bias about blacks that they were more violent than whites. Lately many black leaders and role models are stepping up and saying this and trying to bring what used to be a family oriented religious community back from the cancerous thug mentality popularized and prevalent within the community. It's not all blacks of course many are great people heroes, role models, or just living life making a living raising good kids etc. But you're fooling yourself if you don't think there is a problem. I'm not saying this to be racist or to hurt feelings I'm stating facts undeniable provable statistical facts.

[kiwisailor]

In a attempt to inject some levity into a sad subject:

Every morning in Africa, a Gazelle awakens knowing it must today run faster than the fastest Lion or it will be eaten.

Every morning a Lion awakes knowing it must outrun the slowest Gazelle or it will starve.

It matters not whether you are a Gazelle or a Lion, when the Sun rises, you had better be running.

African Proverb

[ChrisinHove]

"Happy slapping" seems to have fizzled out as a craze here. No one needed guns, either.

[Monocrom]

No one ever needs guns in England. :rolleyes:

[The Mastiff]

It's a shame that PC closes off certain discussions, some questions, even research on the "wrong" subject done fairly. Memes have to be followed or criticism and name calling result. Does anybody honestly believe it's (PC) just a true attempt at making our society more equal and fair?

I stayed away from this thread because I had a very high amount of pain due to medical reasons/procedures and when I'm like that my blood pressure goes up making me quick to anger and more willing to lash out.Much less willing to watch my words also. I am feeling a bit more myself now so I'll post here hopefully without getting into any areas that make our forum providers uncomfortable.

OK, The knock out game. It's nothing new. It has been going on since the 70's that I personally have witnessed. I've seen it in cities, the military and in prisons. In areas it appears the first few are the key to how often it is done, or if it stops and is forgotten. If the first couple don't end well for the attackers it dies a fast death. If no real consequences to the attackers happen it becomes more and more popular and the ones doing it get the feeling there will never be any consequences.

There is no real morality involved. If one gets shot or beaten they figure the chances make it not worth it. They will try to get away with what they can though and this is one of the past times they enjoy. The only difference now is it used to be a prelude to a mugging. Now it is the act itself and if they lift the wallet then that's part of the game being played. It used to begin with the picking of a victim, getting him/her where you have an advantage and beginning the "hey man, you got a light"? Now that is often dropped and it just ends up as "BAM"!.

The fact is if you appear weaker, scared, or the type that has inhibitions to violence than that increases your chances. It's funny when they pick the wrong guy because of stereotypes and find themselves on defense. When caught it's common for them to explain that they struck the guy because he came on to them ( he's a homosexual), and more often now "he called me a...xyz&*$ and tried to hit me so I defended myself". They figure someone saying something racist is justification to strike them just as they believe it's ok to ignore police officers commands and any authority they have because the police are obviously racist. That has been happening more now leading to more serious problems as well as at times an unwillingness for police to get involved. That leads to other problems. I have truly seen for myself much of this since I began in Law Enforcement and then corrections back in October of 1980 initially as an Army MP, then city police, deputy sheriff and of course Correctional officer.

The "flash mob" rampage through stores is a new version of random attacks. As much other crime goes it's generally under reported by the media as it doesn't fit the meme of wise, peaceful minority children who are the victims rather than the victimizers. Even when the statistics are brought out meme becomes children victimized by a racist America which has the effect of excusing behavior our society seems to in other instances find criminal.

The media has even taken to Photoshopping images of people to change their race and selectively edit the facts when needed to fit their meme turning a person a different race. "There is nothing to see here, move along"as they say.

More and more Americans are beginning to not care when they are accused of being racist because they have been seeing it used way to often in instances where it is used as a bludgeon to stop the direction of the conversation and regain control.

Get used to it. Black Lives matters, who will call you racist for saying All lives matter have recently been pushing for reparations with democrat politicians. The Democrats involved got them to agree on changing the name because the whole idea is toxic to the majority of US voters. Apparently the democrats have acknowledged their willingness to press for reparations but called by another name.

Also, it goes without saying that by far, the vast majority of Americans are law abiding, decent people trying to get by. Life is hard on us all, and no matter how rich or poor there will be bad days, good days, losses and gains. Nothing I know of exempts you from eventually getting old and passing away with the exception of early death. We are all the same in that ending. It's what you do before that's important. Your legacy, children, lasting works, and yes, bad deeds.

Not a surprise when winning elections is seen as license to divide spoils by our lifelong political class. I don't just mean one party either. If you can convince a politician you can deliver a block of votes to them they will find a space at the public trough for you. It's only taxpayers money in their minds anyways so it's OK to use to further your goals. Politicians find smaller groups easier to manipulate than cohesive Americans so it's in their interests to push the "you are a victim and everybody hates you" meme and keep people divided and mistrusting others.There are also a certain amount of people who by nature want to be told what they want to hear rather than the truth. .

None of this is meant as an attack on anyone other than dishonest politicians and fifth columnist media types and not the honest ones.

[Blerv]

I don't understand why we need to incorporate race into the conversation. Maybe the word "thugs" in the title brought it into play. Maybe the demographic of those commonly playing the game did.

It's VERY simple people. Knocking someone out comes down to massive concussive force and/or specific targeting. If you are spatially aware that is your biggest defense besides just AVOIDING CERTAIN PLACES. If you understand how to minimize your chance of being knocked out (chin down, clinched teeth, shoulder up) your chance again drops exponentially. I'm not sure many of you understand how many hits you can take from an untrained person in the head before it does more than superficial damage. In fact, their chance of breaking a fist on your skull is higher than you taking a fall.

If you hear someone walking up behind you or see someone close enough to hit you and just stay on course hoping it won't happen...flip the dice.

Maybe we can talk actual defense and mechanics instead of fear mongering the victim vs predator relationship?

[The Mastiff]

I don't understand why we need to incorporate race into the conversation

I agree because it makes me uncomfortable as well. The truth however is it is very much based on races and the division of them. Very cohesive areas based on race, religion, even jobs don't see as much of this type of crime. Drug sale competition amongst gangs does change things though. High murder rates from gang violence may tip off violence but after a while that becomes the culture and is self sustaining to an extent.

Joe

[RanCoWeAla]

The best protection is a Glock 43 carried in the vertical document pocket of a 511 Tactical shirt

[346ci]

While I do carry a knife most of the time, it would not be my first weapon of choice.

My advice is to get a pistol and learn to carry it concealed if your area allows. Get a good belt and holster, it may be some trail and error to find a combo you like. There should be some local pistol courses or fun shoots near you, check them out. I'm more into LR and PRS type rifle matches but have done a few rounds of 3 Gun, both of these types of shooting are really fun. 3 Gun will get you more practice with the pistol though.

Love my M&P compact 9mm in a Comp-tac Minotaur

[Monocrom]

The best protection is a Glock 43 carried in the vertical document pocket of a 511 Tactical shirt

M&P Shield is better. And not simply due to the two extra rounds you can carry in it.

But in this situation, you shoot someone unarmed.... Say good-bye to your freedom.

I'm still voting for being in constant Condition Yellow and a reliable container of pepper-spray.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What happened to the days when you could do whatever it takes to defend yourself if you are truly in physical danger...while ALSO having 100 percent confidence that the law (all police, judges, etc) would be on your side, and would say "Good. I'm glad you wasted that trouble maker. You were protecting yourself and your property. Go home." ?

I read about a woman who has a legal concealed weapons license and she shot at a shop lifter.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2478743/michig ... rking-lot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some are claiming she can face criminal charges. That is nonsense. In the "old days" for whatever problems they did have, at least the law would have almost guaranteed stood on the side of this woman. Agree? Like if she did this in say 1815 AD USA.

If more people cut down people like that (criminals who are assaulting the property and persons of others) there would be less of them because the rational ones would be afraid they would get shot by citizens.

[farnorthdan]

An armed society is a polite society, simple as that

[Monocrom]

What happened to the days when you could do whatever it takes to defend yourself if you are truly in physical danger...while ALSO having 100 percent confidence that the law (all police, judges, etc) would be on your side, and would say "Good. I'm glad you wasted that trouble maker. You were protecting yourself and your property. Go home." ?

I read about a woman who has a legal concealed weapons license and she shot at a shop lifter.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2478743/michig ... rking-lot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some are claiming she can face criminal charges. That is nonsense. In the "old days" for whatever problems they did have, at least the law would have almost guaranteed stood on the side of this woman. Agree? Like if she did this in say 1815 AD USA.

If more people cut down people like that (criminals who are assaulting the property and persons of others) there would be less of them because the rational ones would be afraid they would get shot by citizens.

Unfortunately, the good old days are gone. There is now a bizarre and unrealistic standard in place.

[The Deacon]

What happened to the days when you could do whatever it takes to defend yourself if you are truly in physical danger...while ALSO having 100 percent confidence that the law (all police, judges, etc) would be on your side, and would say "Good. I'm glad you wasted that trouble maker. You were protecting yourself and your property. Go home." ?

I read about a woman who has a legal concealed weapons license and she shot at a shop lifter.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2478743/michig ... rking-lot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some are claiming she can face criminal charges. That is nonsense. In the "old days" for whatever problems they did have, at least the law would have almost guaranteed stood on the side of this woman. Agree? Like if she did this in say 1815 AD USA.

If more people cut down people like that (criminals who are assaulting the property and persons of others) there would be less of them because the rational ones would be afraid they would get shot by citizens.

If what I'm reading is correct, the shoplifter was not a danger to her or to any other person in that parking lot and had not harmed anyone in the store. That's why she is facing charges, and would be facing them anywhere in the USA. Shooting "at" a fleeing thief who has harmed no one and does not present an obvious danger to anyone, may have been acceptable in 1815, but has not been for a long time. Today, deadly force can only be used to protect life, period. In some states, like SC, you can assume that anyone coming into your home without permission intends you harm. But even here, you'd be in deep do-do if you chased someone down in a store parking lot and shot them for stealing "stuff". The fact that the "stuff" that did not even belong to her personally only makes things worse for her. And, if she was really just shooting at car tires, that's a pretty dumb thing to be doing in a parking lot.

[Blerv]

I'm with Paul (as is the law). There are hard lines in the sand where you can and cannot shoot someone with legal backing. Even killing someone in a legitimate "self-defense" situation is not a free pass. With all the facts lined up and if you are completely in the right you may avoid the pine box in the dirt but the courts will make life difficult and expensive. Again, not a bad situation compared to the alternative but not exactly a walk in the park.

As for the rest, not every answer in life is "carry a gun". The premise of this situation is trying to defend from a surprise attack within melee range. Very few people out there who practice gun-play work on drawing and retention, fewer do so after a surprise hit to the face.

Besides simple avoidance there are often more effective solutions than drawing a gun. Even if I had one on me if I was within a few feet of a group of people there is no way I would drop my hands to reach for it. Maybe if knocked to the ground but even then the prime concern would be to get up as quick as possible while guarding vital areas from kicks and stomps.

People don't want to train. They don't want to get bruises. They don't want to avoid situations where they may be at risk. The problem is when you add all these things up you simply can't buy a tool that will fix all your problems. You can minimize or increase risk but it's difficult to eliminate it. I will say, with all the knockout game and street fight videos on Youtube very few participants have even an ounce of training. Even a few hours at your local YMCA in a fitness boxing class would not only be fun but would provide a profound understanding of body mechanics, range, telegraphs, etc.

Heck...learning to keep your chin down when walking by a crowd would prevent almost every game from being "successful".

[The Deacon]

I'm with Paul (as is the law). There are hard lines in the sand where you can and cannot shoot someone with legal backing. Even killing someone in a legitimate "self-defense" situation is not a free pass. With all the facts lined up and if you are completely in the right you may avoid the pine box in the dirt but the courts will make life difficult and expensive. Again, not a bad situation compared to the alternative but not exactly a walk in the park.

As for the rest, not every answer in life is "carry a gun". The premise of this situation is trying to defend from a surprise attack within melee range. Very few people out there who practice gun-play work on drawing and retention, fewer do so after a surprise hit to the face.

True Blake, the only time I can see myself using deadly force in a way that would conflict with what the law considers acceptable would be if someone tried to harm or kidnap Bear. The law may him mere property but I consider him to be family.

I do think a lot of folks take more and better precautions against threats with a statistically low probability than against ones that are far more likely to occur. Face it, unless you're involved with drugs or certain other illegal activities and you die a violent death, the cause is more likely to be an MVA than a knife or a gun. However, at least here in SC, I know one CWP holder who ride his motorcycle without a helmet and am sure there are others that do the same. I'd bet there are CWP holders who drive without buckling up, drive drunk, or drive vehicles with worn out shocks, steering, brakes, wipers, tires, or some combination of those.

Dare I even mention the folks who have stockpiled an arsenal that would do Burt Gummer proud and enough MREs and bottled water to feed their family for a year, but refuse to let the kids get vaccinated.

[Blerv]

I do think a lot of folks take more and better precautions against threats with a statistically low probability than against ones that are far more likely to occur.

The real culprit for the "knockout game" is stairs and iced walkways. In life if you can avoid having your own heart attack you or avoid getting on the wrong side of gravity your risk drops drastically. :)