man arrested (NY) for carrying a UK Pen Knife response

[Mic1]

A single father brings his four year old daughter into the hospital. She is suffering from a high fever and delirium, obviously a serious infection. He has no medical insurance because his was canceled by his insurance company after paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment and hospitalization costs for his wife who was later determined by the insurance company to have had a "pre-existing condition" which led to her illness. She died. He can't buy more because he is broke from paying off his wife's medical bills and supporting his daughter and her three siblings. So, too bad for the little girl. No money, no insurance, no help.

An older combat veteran, living on disability and ravaged by his psychological and physical injuries is living in a broken down trailer and trying to keep it together. His psychological issues keep him from being employed. He needs to eat regularly to stay healthy and applies for food stamps. But, hey, it's a 'give away' handout, so bug off old man. Get a job.

Life is complicated and complex and simple solutions usually are just that. Simple. And wrong.

No trauma care hospital can will turn down anyone insurance or not. I have an ER doctor as a close friend and plenty of immigrants bring their kids into the ER with no insurance and get treated every day day after day. They never turn people away in ER trauma centers this is a myth drummed up to promote sympathy. As for the Vet my father in law is a Vietnam vet dying of bone cancer they think from the stuff over there they take care of him at the VA hospital. I'm not heartless give help to those who truly need it. But the system is widely abused by many who would rather be lazy and not work. There will always be people who need help and we should never turn our backs on them. There will always be a heart breaking story of someone wronged or mistreated you can fight that to with laws charities and private organizations. But The current system is broke and there is no way it is financially viable no matter how much you want it to be.

Before national health care my insurance for a family of 4 was $1,462.00 every 2 months Blue Cross Blue shield. After the law $1,000.00 per month.
So I am forced to go on The exchange because I can't afford my insurance at the level I had with all the new things I have been forced to have. Or just have major medical and pay out of pocket for everything else. My wife has had some pretty serious health issues over the last 5 years and I was not willing to lose the level of coverage I had. I am self employed many of you have no idea what your insurance cost your employer. I mean really does my 7 year old daughter need maternity coverage? NO but she has it. My wife cant have anymore kids guess what she has maternity too. Here is the best part but they don't cover my daughter her seeing a therapist for anxiety which they used to. Thank you so much government.

So every month now I pay $691 dollars in premiums and the taxpayer pays $981 to Humana that's $1,672.00 every month how is that cheaper? Ya cheaper for me but not overall cheaper.

So last year I file my taxes and the feds owe me money. I get to the insurance part and I figure okay they have been paying a part of my insurance they will probably take some or all of my refund. Nope I get more money back.

LISTEN TO ME WHEN I TELL YOU THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HELPS YOU IN THE SHORT TERM STOP THINKING JUST ABOUT YOURSELF AND WHAT CAN YOU GET! Even though I personally pay less than before the law I would go back to paying for it myself. Being able to choose the level and things I want covered and can afford. Originally I had no idea this is how this system would work but after being in it we are looking for alternatives. Our church is considering offering a Health insurance cooperative not funded by the government paid for and run by its members. It will not be nearly as convenient but it will be cheaper and I won't be a drain on the system.

[TomAiello]

I think MichaelScott just made up his examples from whole cloth.

They aren't really related to reality in any way, as you pointed out.

[Ankerson]

They could be based on reality.

When I was injured at work the Company totally screwed me over and said it wasn't a Workmans Comp issue so I had to go through my normal health insurance.

And let me tell you it was a freaking nightmare with me never getting the treatment that I needed and in the end it cost me my career and I will never recover from my injury.

The Company wouldn't let me work due to my injury, I was in management so I could have actually worked.

So I had zero income due to that issue then the treatment I needed was like $250 a week after the insurance discount so I couldn't receive treatment.

And the disability company played their games as well so I had zero income coming in.

Just the games they play to get around paying.

Only takes one jerk to screw things up and everything turns into a complete freaking nightmare.

And it happens one **** of a lot from what my Lawyer told me during the process and they do it on purpose because they can.

He told me he personally dealt with thousands of cases over the years and that was just dealing with just that one disability Company alone. :eek:

Start multiplying that out to other companies, other lawyers and then Law Firms, their Lawyers etc.

So like I said it only takes one jerk to screw things up.

In my situation if that one jerk would have done the right thing from the beginning I would have gotten treatment right away and things would have been different now than they are. :rolleyes:

[Mic1]

They could be based on reality.

When I was injured at work the Company totally screwed me over and said it wasn't a Workmans Comp issue so I had to go through my normal health insurance.

And let me tell you it was a freaking nightmare with me never getting the treatment that I needed and in the end it cost me my career and I will never recover from my injury.

The Company wouldn't let me work due to my injury, I was in management so I could have actually worked.

So I had zero income due to that issue then the treatment I needed was like $250 a week after the insurance discount so I couldn't receive treatment.

And the disability company played their games as well so I had zero income coming in.

Just the games they play to get around paying.

Only takes one jerk to screw things up and everything turns into a complete freaking nightmare.

And it happens one **** of a lot from what my Lawyer told me during the process and they do it on purpose.

I am sorry to hear that story Ankerson truley. I hope the company gets what it deserves in the end. I hope you have recovered or do recover to full health. :)

But it is that company's fault not everyone elses. I don't know them or what happened but if they are to blame should I be forced to pay for that or can I make a decision to help you or not on my own. I hope you took every legal action you could. I had a problem with my insurance once where one company was no longer covering Illinois so they moved us all to blue cross blue shield who then wanted to play games about covering preexisting conditions. I called the Illinois Department of insurance they became involved did an investigation. I was covered and even received a letter of apology from BCBS. Did not cost me a dime. It sucks that people are dishonest, selfish, have no honor or are down right evil. For everyone of those though there are just as many or more of good honorable stand up companies and people.

I know this is not exactly the same as being injured but I just got stiffed by a customer for $1,059.00 Which will have to come out of my pocket to pay the subcontractors his excuse was he has kids in college and can't afford it right now. Now he did not mention this when we were estimating it or doing it. I got screwed should you or the taxpayer pay for that. No but now I am going to have to be all nast send letters take legal action etc etc just to get paid and probably never will. It's not fair but life is not fair it can be a real female dog. In my early 20s I lived in and out of the back of my truck for 9 months because I was laid off and could not go home. I stayed with friends sold my personal belongings and lived rough but I kept fighting and I'm still standing and tougher for it. It is hard to see past one's personal experiences especially when there bad or in the midst of of it. What we have now will not work long term no matter how much they tax everyone even the "rich". All one has to do is look at the examples like Greece.

[Ankerson]

They could be based on reality.

When I was injured at work the Company totally screwed me over and said it wasn't a Workmans Comp issue so I had to go through my normal health insurance.

And let me tell you it was a freaking nightmare with me never getting the treatment that I needed and in the end it cost me my career and I will never recover from my injury.

The Company wouldn't let me work due to my injury, I was in management so I could have actually worked.

So I had zero income due to that issue then the treatment I needed was like $250 a week after the insurance discount so I couldn't receive treatment.

And the disability company played their games as well so I had zero income coming in.

Just the games they play to get around paying.

Only takes one jerk to screw things up and everything turns into a complete freaking nightmare.

And it happens one **** of a lot from what my Lawyer told me during the process and they do it on purpose.

I am sorry to hear that story Ankerson truley. I hope the company gets what it deserves in the end. I hope you have recovered or do recover to full health. :)

But it is that company's fault not everyone elses. I don't know them or what happened but if they are to blame should I be forced to pay for that or can I make a decision to help you or not on my own. I hope you took every legal action you could. I had a problem with my insurance once where one company was no longer covering Illinois so they moved us all to blue cross blue shield who then wanted to play games about covering preexisting conditions. I called the Illinois Department of insurance they became involved did an investigation. I was covered and even received a letter of apology from BCBS. Did not cost me a dime. It sucks that people are dishonest, selfish, have no honor or are down right evil. For everyone of those though there are just as many or more of good honorable stand up companies and people.

I know this is not exactly the same as being injured but I just got stiffed by a customer for $1,059.00 Which will have to come out of my pocket to pay the subcontractors his excuse was he has kids in college and can't afford it right now. Now he did not mention this when we were estimating it or doing it. I got screwed should you or the taxpayer pay for that. No but now I am going to have to be all nast send letters take legal action etc etc just to get paid and probably never will. It's not fair but life is not fair it can be a real female dog. In my early 20s I lived in and out of the back of my truck for 9 months because I was laid off and could not go home. I stayed with friends sold my personal belongings and lived rough but I kept fighting and I'm still standing and tougher for it. It is hard to see past one's personal experiences especially when there bad or in the midst of of it. What we have now will not work long term no matter how much they tax everyone even the "rich". All one has to do is look at the examples like Greece.

No, it's been settled.....

Would have taken another 3 to 5 years so it wasn't really worth it.

And going after the Company here in NC would be a waste of time from what the Law Firm said. NC has some seriously screwed up laws that all lean towards the Companies favor and NOT the employees let me tell you. One heck of a lot of corruption down here from what I found out and it's getting worse as time goes on.

But in the end I am basically screwed and there really is nothing I can do about it that would be a relatively quick solution that wouldn't be in court for years and years. And it would have to go to the Federal Level because the state laws are so bad.

Was told NC is one of the worst states in the Country if a person got hurt at work. :rolleyes:

Unless a person was missing a leg or something or dies...... :rolleyes:

But you are right, it all starts with the Company one works for and that can differ depending. If they are one that wants to screw people over they can and will knowing they can get away with it down here very easy.

One of these Corps I would love to see go bankrupt for what they did to me and others over the years just because they could get away with it.

[Mic1]

That is truly unfortunate. There in lies the problem corruption. Also you could probably find an organization or a even a lawyer to help pro bono but your right it could take years with no sure outcome tones of wasted time. The laws and courts are so convoluted and corrupt. And bad companies and people are counting on the fact that it's just to much time and work to fight back. I am sorry that you were a victim of it.

[Ankerson]

That is truly unfortunate. There in lies the problem corruption. Also you could probably find an organization or a even a lawyer to help pro bono but your right it could take years with no sure outcome tones of wasted time. The laws and courts are so convoluted and corrupt. And bad companies and people are counting on the fact that it's just to much time and work to fight back. I am sorry that you were a victim of it.

Yeah, I was one of the unfortunate ones that fell through the cracks or I would have been taken care of better medical wise.

All started with that one jerk in the Company who wanted to screw people over.

And their boss was just as bad as that person was, maybe even worse, total complete jerk and I am being very nice.

Never in my life have I ever been treated so badly and I have a pretty thick skin, it was truly epic.... :rolleyes:

Nothing like getting yelled at and cussed out on the phone by the Company you work for and by the very people who are supposed to be helping you. That's Loss Prevention and Human Resources..... And the Benefits department was just as bad as they were.... :rolleyes:

And it happened more than once during the process.

That's when I knew I was totally screwed and got a Lawyer. :rolleyes:

And on top of that they implied that I just get the Doctor to sign off like I wasn't even injured and go back to work full duty with no restrictions...... Yeah right so they could fire me for not being able to do my job etc.......

I wasn't that stupid to fall for that one and it's illegal and unethical to boot. Told my Dr. that and he laughed and said no, that would never happen because I was really injured and seriously. And he said there was no way I would ever be able to do my job, was on 80% restriction at the time.

Gotta love it man, gotta love it.... :rolleyes:

[TomAiello]

The problem is that the laws are formed by whoever has the most money to pay for legislators to form the laws to benefit them, so they have the most money to pay legislators to benefit them...and so forth. 90% of laws work to benefit those in power, or with the money to buy those in power (which is much the same thing). Which is, in a nutshell, why we need fewer, rather than more, laws.

[Ankerson]

The problem is that the laws are formed by whoever has the most money to pay for legislators to form the laws to benefit them, so they have the most money to pay legislators to benefit them...and so forth. 90% of laws work to benefit those in power, or with the money to buy those in power (which is much the same thing). Which is, in a nutshell, why we need fewer, rather than more, laws.

See that 1st hand every year when the local Government has their annual meeting, they take more away every year from the employees.

Serious major corruption down here. :rolleyes:

[SpyderEdgeForever]

It is sortof like the oil barons. Mankind could have had working nuclear fusion decades ago but what incentive or motivation is there for a man or group of men who rake in billions of dollars to help fund and produce the self-perpetuating energy source that would make their oil fortunes obsolete? I can already hear the "oh come on that sounds like conspiracy stuff" but its basic common sense. Once a bureaucracy is created the bureacrats will do whatever it takes to keep themselves in power. What incentive would they have to go against the grain of that?

Pardon me if this is a bit too much on the political side.

Those UK Pen Knives are nice knives, all Spyderco's are.

[awa54]

The problem is that the laws are formed by whoever has the most money to pay for legislators to form the laws to benefit them, so they have the most money to pay legislators to benefit them...and so forth. 90% of laws work to benefit those in power, or with the money to buy those in power (which is much the same thing). Which is, in a nutshell, why we need fewer, rather than more, laws.

The whole "of, by and for the people" thing has largely gone by the wayside. Government *can* work and work well, when corruption (read special interest money and conflict of interest) are removed from the system, now it's just going to the highest bidder and unfortunately for conservatives, more Republican politicians at the national level are deeper in the pockets of billionaires than Democrats (though there are plenty of "owned" Dems too). I would argue that we need better laws, not fewer, after all when there are no laws to protect the small people from the powerful, then the regular Joe/Jane loses.

The US is headed towards oligarchy and that's only good for the oligarchs, you'd think that the rich people who want to control and profit off of the masses would have learned from past overthrows/purges how this is likely to end.

[TomAiello]

Government *can* work and work well, when corruption (read special interest money and conflict of interest) are removed from the system...

When government has to the power to pick the winners and losers in the economy, the rational businessman will _always_ prioritize buying government influence over actually providing service, creating new products, developing employees, or anything else.

The correct solution is not to call for yet more rules and regulations to "remove" a facet of the system that is inherent within it. It is to eliminate that facet by ending the right of the government to pick the winners and losers in the economy.

More rules will always work to the advantage of the people making the rules. It's a fools errand to think that you can fix this problem by creating more rules.

[awa54]

When government has to the power to pick the winners and losers in the economy, the rational businessman will _always_ prioritize buying government influence over actually providing service, creating new products, developing employees, or anything else.

The correct solution is not to call for yet more rules and regulations to "remove" a facet of the system that is inherent within it. It is to eliminate that facet by ending the right of the government to pick the winners and losers in the economy.

More rules will always work to the advantage of the people making the rules. It's a fools errand to think that you can fix this problem by creating more rules.

Whatever happened to "values" like not being a scumbag, just because it makes you money?

I say to you, without rules the one with the most power wins, if you think that's you, you're in for a rough ride...

If you start to deregulate or dismantle government then the corporations that are buying influence now will essentially have free reign, I for one am not ready to see that happen.

[Mic1]

The problem is that the laws are formed by whoever has the most money to pay for legislators to form the laws to benefit them, so they have the most money to pay legislators to benefit them...and so forth. 90% of laws work to benefit those in power, or with the money to buy those in power (which is much the same thing). Which is, in a nutshell, why we need fewer, rather than more, laws.

The whole "of, by and for the people" thing has largely gone by the wayside. Government *can* work and work well, when corruption (read special interest money and conflict of interest) are removed from the system, now it's just going to the highest bidder and unfortunately for conservatives, more Republican politicians at the national level are deeper in the pockets of billionaires than Democrats (though there are plenty of "owned" Dems too). I would argue that we need better laws, not fewer, after all when there are no laws to protect the small people from the powerful, then the regular Joe/Jane loses.

The US is headed towards oligarchy and that's only good for the oligarchs, you'd think that the rich people who want to control and profit off of the masses would have learned from past overthrows/purges how this is likely to end.

Really you believe that republicans are so much more corrupt then Democrats you watching way too much TV. Why would that be because there religious or own business. Is it your an employee and think your boss is evil. Or he or she owes you something. Don't like your Boss You can find a new job anytime if you're unhappy where you are or don't like how you're treated. But your boss owes you jack except what you agreed to and what the law says he or she must provide. Anything above and beyond that you should be grateful. Just being born does not mean you're entitled to everything you want or need to survive. Seriously think for yourself use facts not feeling look at real world examples throughout history just simple economics we give out and spend more than we take in. I don't care about the social issues gays getting married go for it with my blessings. Abortion that's between you and god or whatever you believe in or don't just don't make me pay for it. I believe in freedom that's what this country should be about. You ever notice the democratic seem to be less and less tolerant to anything but there way if you disagree your racist,hate working class (even though I put tool belt on every day) heartless, misogynist blah blah blah. This rhetoric never holds water when you have to debate it in facts it alway comes down to feelings and hypothetically this and that. Tell me this bud if the health care is good why are the government and unions exempt.

The fiscal policy and foreign policies of the left are total pipe dreams. You can't run a country on good intentions and sucking the wealth out of it.

Let's take my job for example. Right now on my desk is a contract for 1.1 million dollar home for a doctor. He pays me then I intern hire all the trades including myself. That will provide 20 + contractors and their families with an income for months not including the providers of the materials. Without that doctor thay don't have that work. We don't buy the material that someone gets paid to make. So how much of ever dollar should he pay in taxes. How much is enough 50 cents of every dollar 75 cents. And when he decides that opening another practice is not worth it then what now I don't build his 3rd office. Yes I built two for him already. Social policies like distribution of wealth will only hurt this country. You probably say o well he can afford it. Guess what he has big bills too insurance, staff, taxes, mortgage utilities all the bills that you have just on the larger scale. He has sacrificed a good deal of his life to have his money. Med school, 3rd shift for years in the ER, when I go home and eat dinner and hang out with my family at 5:30 he is still at work. Get over the jealous. Without people like him this whole thing crashes.

[The Mastiff]

When I was injured at work the Company totally screwed me over and said it wasn't a Workmans Comp issue so I had to go through my normal health insurance.

I had the state government do that to me. First the told me what doctor to go to. Then they refused to pay and I had to despite following every rule and order to the letter.. It led to me having to get an attorney, go through a suit and then an appeal. I finally won an award from the industrial commission and they issued an order to the state to pay. They refused to do that just like they had ignored several other orders from the judge.

Finally more than two years after the ruling ( 6 after the injury they made me go to the doctor about) they issued the check.

They probably used up $50,000.00 of the taxpayers money fighting a case they should not have, then had to pay anyways which I'm sure even they knew would eventually happen unless I gave up like most sane people did. :).

If it was a private company their waste of money would have cost them jobs. In the state system they got promotions eventually and finally retired after doing that same thing to who knows how many state employees.

That was peanuts compared to some of the truly appalling things I saw during my career.

Joe

[The Mastiff]

more Republican politicians at the national level are deeper in the pockets of billionaires than Democrats (though there are plenty of "owned" Dems too)

You are joking, right?

I guess if one repeats things enough times some will begin to believe it.

If there wasn't a rule about talking politics here I'd have a lot of fun with this. It's just begging for correction but out of respect to Kristi and Sal I'll let it go.

[awa54]

The fiscal policy and foreign policies of the left are total pipe dreams. You can't run a country on good intentions and sucking the wealth out of it.

You probably say o well he can afford it. Guess what he has big bills too insurance, staff, taxes, mortgage utilities all the bills that you have just on the larger scale. He has sacrificed a good deal of his life to have his money. Med school, 3rd shift for years in the ER, when I go home and eat dinner and hang out with my family at 5:30 he is still at work. Get over the jealous. Without people like him this whole thing crashes.

#1 look at the corporate and top personal income tax rates back in the day when 'Muricca was kicking rather than sucking a**. I rest my case.

#2 I have nothing against those who work hard or are savvy in business and achieve financial success retaining lots of that wealth, however, if you stop to consider that the framework within which that person found success wouldn't have existed without society at large paying for it to be built then the obligation to pay back in to the system starts to make sense. I know that overt greed is fashionable right now, but look past the propaganda you get fed in the media and by popular aspirational legends... the dream that *anyone* can "make it big" in the USA is only somewhat true, the innate ability, tenaciousness, education and *luck* (or silver spoon) required only line up for a very few individuals (right? otherwise we'd all be billionaires).

So good on Dr. Success, now he can afford to pay back in, so that his children and others can live in a country that allows them a path to success just like the one he was *given* by *our* society. There is no free lunch, if you want to live in a country worth living in, you have to pay for it.

You say I'm jealous, but you're the one who wants it all and blames government for the fact that you aren't getting it.

[awa54]

more Republican politicians at the national level are deeper in the pockets of billionaires than Democrats (though there are plenty of "owned" Dems too)

You are joking, right?

I guess if one repeats things enough times some will begin to believe it.

Why would the political right fight so hard for deregulation of campaign finance if they weren't *absolutely* certain that it would benefit them?

...but we will all believe what we already believe, for the most part. Funny how everyone thinks that their belief structure is the only one that 's right eh?

[Mic1]

The fiscal policy and foreign policies of the left are total pipe dreams. You can't run a country on good intentions and sucking the wealth out of it.

You probably say o well he can afford it. Guess what he has big bills too insurance, staff, taxes, mortgage utilities all the bills that you have just on the larger scale. He has sacrificed a good deal of his life to have his money. Med school, 3rd shift for years in the ER, when I go home and eat dinner and hang out with my family at 5:30 he is still at work. Get over the jealous. Without people like him this whole thing crashes.

#1 look at the corporate and top personal income tax rates back in the day when 'Muricca was kicking rather than sucking a**. I rest my case.

#2 I have nothing against those who work hard or are savvy in business and achieve financial success retaining lots of that wealth, however, if you stop to consider that the framework within which that person found success wouldn't have existed without society at large paying for it to be built then the obligation to pay back in to the system starts to make sense. I know that overt greed is fashionable right now, but look past the propaganda you get fed in the media and by popular aspirational legends... the dream that *anyone* can "make it big" in the USA is only somewhat true, the innate ability, tenaciousness, education and *luck* (or silver spoon) required only line up for a very few individuals (right? otherwise we'd all be billionaires).

So good on Dr. Success, now he can afford to pay back in, so that his children and others can live in a country that allows them a path to success just like the one he was *given* by *our* society. There is no free lunch, if you want to live in a country worth living in, you have to pay for it.

You say I'm jealous, but you're the one who wants it all and blames government for the fact that you aren't getting it.

HOW MUCH SHOULD HE GIVE HOW MANY CENTS OF EACH DOLLAR WHEN HAS HE PAID HIS SUPPOSED DEBT TO SOCIETY FOR THE CRIME OF BEING SUCCESSFUL. 48% 50% 75% HOW MUCH WHEN IS IT ENOUGH. He does have a scholarship fund he created just for kids in rehab for drugs to go to college because his son was a junky. He also has a not for profit vascular clinic in the philippines which he pays for. Really most "rich" people are good people who already give back more than you know they just get sick of you telling them how to give who to give to and how much.


Your above statement proves that its all about feelings again and your version of social justice. Society did not give him success he earned it through hard work, personal and financial sacrifices. How does society at large pay for it as I recall he paid me personally to build his offices from a loan from a bank which he paid interest on. 1 corporate tax is so great here people are fleeing to Ireland and anywhere else to avoid it. 2 Doctor paid his own way through life and med school he had the loans to prove it. He provides a specialized service and people pay him for it. I my friend am not jealous at all quite the contrary I am content with my life. I work hard but not as hard as the doctor or most of my customers. Which is a choice I have made personally. That's why the Doc drives a tesla and I drive a toyota. Choices. I have a nice 1800 sq foot house a good looking loving wife two great kids a new truck and a loyal dog my slice of the pie and I built that with hard work from nothing and fight everyday to keep it. Try building something from nothing sometime it will give a new respect for things. Being the boss aint all it's cracked up to be. It's you butt on the line when it goes wrong. I hate seeing injustice labeled social justice. You have drank the koolaid and there will be no way for you to see past it. Already we owe you something I have never met you and I owe you so you can be you ( the special you ) and not be bothered by lifes hard reality that some people fail. Some people don't get what they want most of the time because of poor choices or lack of effort. Rarely is it through no fault of their own. Not everyone wins and gets a trophy. But everyone does get a chance at bat!

[Mic1]

I have client a lawyer who's daughter died at 19 of cancer. He started a foundation where he spends his retirement helping families with kids who have cancer with any legal work they need as well as to connect with the right doctors and hospitals. He helps them negotiate with insurance companies and hospitals so they can concentrate on their children getting better.

I have another customer who is in pharmaceuticals. He is never home always gone working all over the world. When he gets home he donates his time and money helping out vets. Currently we are working on building a workout facility for some navy guys leaving the navy. He and I will be donating our time for free as well as helping them financially afford there new business.

I could write a book on the charitable actions I have personally witnessed "rich" people do over the years.Not just there money but there free time which they usually have less of than most people. You are way off base with what you think you know. What you know about the "rich" would not even fill a Thimble.