English Anti Knife Law: INSANE!

[ChrisinHove]

Embrace your inner coward. :D

I'm glad the founding fathers let England know what we thought of their laws back in the day.

Another point of view is that it was English émigrés beating a Hanoverian King and his German mercaneraries.... That way we can celebrate July 4, too!

[Surfingringo]

I'm glad I don't live in the UK any more, civil rights are being eroded on a daily basis.

From today's Guardian newspaper

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... rry-knives

A mandatory “two strikes and you’re out’’ minimum six-month prison sentence for carrying a knife, which was blocked more than a year ago by the Liberal Democrats <SNIP>

“With this new measure we are sending out the strongest message to offenders: repeatedly take a knife on to our streets and expect to go to prison.”

Again- this mis-reports that this is about 'found carrying a knife which is prosecutable without good reason'- ie, as I've described above: either:
1. a locking folder of any type
2. a non-locking folder with a greater than 3" blade
3 a fixed blade.

Carrying said types of knife in public without 'good reason' is what makes it an offence- that hasn't changed....what they have changed is the addition of the repetition addition (three strikes).

Carrying a non-locking, sub-3" folder IS legal WITHOUT good reason and this portion of Section 163 of The Public Order Act Amendment of 1992 and 2005 has not changed....Likewise, being found committing a crime (or demonstrably on your way to commit a crime) or claiming that you were carrying a knife for self-defence renders ANY carried knife as 'an offensive weapon'- but that's the same as being found with a hammer or chisel in that situation.

What this does do is grip those little twerps who stand about of street corners to rob, deal drugs, steal and so forth now at greater risk of ending up inside- the ones who get regular "Stop & Searches" from the Police for other reasons...and (hopefully) take more criminal idiots off the streets

This is very true and the law will be effective to this end. If the desire is to be kept safe at all cost then we can continue to give more power, autonomy and discretion to the government and law enforcement...they will gladly accept. The problem is, once given, it is extremely difficult to get these things back. I am not trying to define where the line is, I am simply advising caution.

[The Deacon]

This is very true and the law will be effective to this end. If the desire is to be kept safe at all cost then we can continue to give more power, autonomy and discretion to the government and law enforcement...they will gladly accept. The problem is, once given, it is extremely difficult to get these things back. I am not trying to define where the line is, I am simply advising caution.

But you're looking at this as an American, with the assumption that your government derives it power from YOU, that you have the RIGHT to own the means to defend yourself, and the RIGHT to use them to defend your person, and in at least some cases your property. That has never been the case for the British. Monarchs grant, or deny, privileges to the subjects.

[demoncase]

This is very true and the law will be effective to this end. If the desire is to be kept safe at all cost then we can continue to give more power, autonomy and discretion to the government and law enforcement...they will gladly accept. The problem is, once given, it is extremely difficult to get these things back. I am not trying to define where the line is, I am simply advising caution.

But you're looking at this as an American, with the assumption that your government derives it power from YOU, that you have the RIGHT to own the means to defend yourself, and the RIGHT to use them to defend your person, and in at least some cases your property. That has never been the case for the British. Monarchs grant, or deny, privileges to the subjects.

Not quite true since the English Civil War: We have a Parliamentary Monarchy-
The sitting Monarch 'rubber stamps for approval' laws that have been created and ratified via our Parliamentary System (Commons and House Of Lords).
In theory, The King or Queen could deny a law being enacted.
In reality, no King or Queen has done so for 250+ years, as the last one that did got their head put on a spike
Likewise, we are ruled in practice and actuality by the elected members of the Commons...The 'Queen's Speech' which tells us common folk what 'her' government is going to do in this parliament is written- in it's entirety- by the elected government.

What we don't have- unlike the US- is a written constitution which neatly tabulates the unalienable rights of the people...It's part of the reason why you chaps decided to write such a thing in the first place.

[Johnnie1801]

Let's not get started on the Monarchy, that's an institution that's probably worse than the UK's knife laws.

Deacon, you are perfectly right to say that a Government gets its power from the people. Unfortunately in the UK it doesn't work that way, the class system is still king.

Certainly this new law won't affect what you are currently allowed to carry but it takes us down a path where that could change. In my opinion introducing a law like this is like fighting fire with fire, I just wonder how many innocent people will end up with criminal records? The weird thing is that knife crime in London is actually falling and outside London is much lower. In a city of 8 million, so far this year there have been 8 teenage murders down from a high in 2008 of 28. The majority of these killings are not drug or gang related but robberies.

I'm guessing a lot of young people choose to carry a knife to protect themselves from being robbed. The police are not trusted in ethnic communities because of past mistakes and continued institutional racism. Police budgets have been cut to shreds also which doesn't help. Better to carry a knife and protect yourself.

I'm pretty sure this law has been brought in to show that the current right wing Conservative Government is tough on crime. There's a London Mayoral election in 2016 and this has been brought in to reassure Londoners that they are safe from knife wielding maniacs. And so we are back to the point where London and the South East dictate the laws for the rest of the country.

At the end of the day until Brits start some type of pressure group like Kniferights in the US, the UK knife community are an easy target for the right wing press and Government.

I also read today that foxhunting with dogs has been sneakily decriminalised yesterday during the 7/7 terror memorials. So now it's ok to rip a fox to pieces with a pack of 50 dogs yet you go to jail for 6 months for carrying a knife....

[ChrisinHove]

I'm glad I don't live in the UK any more, civil rights are being eroded on a daily basis.

From today's Guardian newspaper

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... rry-knives

A mandatory “two strikes and you’re out’’ minimum six-month prison sentence for carrying a knife, which was blocked more than a year ago by the Liberal Democrats <SNIP>

“With this new measure we are sending out the strongest message to offenders: repeatedly take a knife on to our streets and expect to go to prison.”

Again- this mis-reports that this is about 'found carrying a knife which is prosecutable without good reason'- ie, as I've described above: either:
1. a locking folder of any type
2. a non-locking folder with a greater than 3" blade
3 a fixed blade.

Carrying said types of knife in public without 'good reason' is what makes it an offence- that hasn't changed....what they have changed is the addition of the repetition addition (three strikes).

Carrying a non-locking, sub-3" folder IS legal WITHOUT good reason and this portion of Section 163 of The Public Order Act Amendment of 1992 and 2005 has not changed....Likewise, being found committing a crime (or demonstrably on your way to commit a crime) or claiming that you were carrying a knife for self-defence renders ANY carried knife as 'an offensive weapon'- but that's the same as being found with a hammer or chisel in that situation.

What this does do is grip those little twerps who stand about of street corners to rob, deal drugs, steal and so forth now at greater risk of ending up inside- the ones who get regular "Stop & Searches" from the Police for other reasons...and (hopefully) take more criminal idiots off the streets

This is very true and the law will be effective to this end. If the desire is to be kept safe at all cost then we can continue to give more power, autonomy and discretion to the government and law enforcement...they will gladly accept. The problem is, once given, it is extremely difficult to get these things back. I am not trying to define where the line is, I am simply advising caution.

Spot on. To me, this is one of the real dangers of terrorist or psycho-nutter outrages: the knee jerk political reaction that probably won't prevent the next one, but removes the rights - or priveliges - of the population. We should all be very wary of laws that if implemented sensibly work well, but not if implemented to the letter.

[Liquid Cobra]

What this does do is grip those little twerps who stand about of street corners to rob, deal drugs, steal and so forth now at greater risk of ending up inside- the ones who get regular "Stop & Searches" from the Police for other reasons...and (hopefully) take more criminal idiots off the streets

Stealing and dealing drugs are illegal are they not? Criminals don't care about new laws, tougher laws or punishment. Your politicians are kidding themselves if they think crooks will think twice about carrying a knife because they're heading towards their third strike.

[demoncase]

What this does do is grip those little twerps who stand about of street corners to rob, deal drugs, steal and so forth now at greater risk of ending up inside- the ones who get regular "Stop & Searches" from the Police for other reasons...and (hopefully) take more criminal idiots off the streets

Stealing and dealing drugs are illegal are they not? Criminals don't care about new laws, tougher laws or punishment. Your politicians are kidding themselves if they think crooks will think twice about carrying a knife because they're heading towards their third strike.

I heartily agree....