AR carbine for home defense

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wrdwrght
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#21

Post by wrdwrght »

twinboysdad wrote:If Glock would ever get off their butts and make a small carbine that accepted G17 mags, they would sell like hot cakes
Take a look at the Kel-tec SUB 2000, the Glock version... The good-natured Hickok45 demonstrates: http://youtu.be/I979gQaLvn4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#22

Post by Doc Dan »

That was my pistol caliber carbine. Great firearm and can be stored anywhere, loaded, but folded. It will not fire nor chamber a round like this. But, one quick unfolding and a fast rack on the bold and you are ready to rock and roll.

The AR is still better in a short carbine.
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RexGig0
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Multiple threats with pump gun...

#23

Post by RexGig0 »

To clarify one point in my previous reply, a skilled pump-shotgunner can work a pump VERY quickly, to engage multiple threats. The problem occurs when space constraints limit the shotgunner's ability to execute the pumping action. This happens to me in the prone position, with my long arms making it worse. This does not cause me to want to get rid of my 870P, but does prompt me to think that transitioning to a handgun when going prone would be the better course of action for me.

Of course, a nice thing about an autoloading long weapon is that it works quite well when prone.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#24

Post by TomAiello »

I have an M4 and I love playing with it, but the manual of arms is pretty nonstandard, and unless you are going to spend serious time (re) training to use it, I wouldn't want to plan on using one for home defense.

FWIW, my choice for a PCC is an SBR PS90 with a suppressor. But given a larger choice I'd prefer something in a rifle caliber, also with a suppressor. I'm very happy to live in a state where that's a viable option.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#25

Post by Doc Dan »

shunsui wrote:
The Mastiff wrote:... In some situations I'd rather have a Benelli, some the AR, and some a pistol makes better sense...
Joe
Which Benelli do you like Joe ? A friend of mine is obsessing over a M4. Got to say the design does look sweet.
A little pricey for home defense, but I'd sure like to take one to a shotgun match.

Tom
I would prefer the Beretta 1301 Tactical to the Benelli, it is a gas vs recoil issue. But the Benelli is a great gun. http://www.beretta.com/en-us/1301-tactical/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Beretta allows you to get closer to the ground if going prone, than the M4. Also, the Beretta, both having an 18.5" barrel, is a lot shorter and easier to maneuver in a tight home environment. The gas system of the Beretta makes recoil a lot easier and this is a consideration for smaller people, if you only have one hand (say you are wounded), and for follow-up shots.

The AR carbine is still lighter than either and even more compact.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#26

Post by Doc Dan »

Among the AR chamberings, I think the 25-45 Sharps is the Bee's Knees. It is similar to the 250-3000 Savage ballistically.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#27

Post by shunsui »

Here's a vid of the Benelli M4 that shows the operating system. Fewer parts, yada yada yada..
https://youtu.be/cysEYnLrO6E

.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#28

Post by The Mastiff »

I'd love to get an M4 Benelli though I only had a M1 Super 90 but I loved it. Talk about putting lead downrange quickly. It's ( all models of the Benelli line) one of the best short range ambush/counter ambush weapon for thin skinned, non armored opponents I've encountered. It does recoil harder with the lack of a gas action. Same thing with a KH91/G3 .308 rifle as opposed to the FAL or M14. The reliability is tremendous with full power loads. Light loads do cause problems with the older benellis. The harsh recoil used to not be an issue until my shoulders went and both needed complete reconstructions ( 2 surgeries each side). For about a year afterward the thought of shooting the Benelli wasn't exciting as they can punch you a bit. I sold it mostly for money to pay bills though. For a while I planned on getting another one, or the newer M4 but I never had enough extra money. Between my medical bills and Finn's ( the real mastiff!) last year and a half of his life when I was averaging over $600 per month in food, vet bills and meds killed off any realistic thoughts I had of getting any new guns.

I have a bunch of experience with 870's and have seen first hand what they can and can't do to humans. I was also treated to an armorers course on the 870 for free courtesy of my employer so I feel comfortable with 870's. I had to qualify with them ( and use them) for my whole career too so I can handle one fairly well and wouldn't feel naked if I had to rely on one for home defense though it isn't my first choice. After going through the shoulder stuff I do appreciate that one can get in a position they can't use two hands to pump a shotgun/rotate a bolt and I like the idea of a quality, reliable semi auto. Best yet would be to have one of each. Same thing as Spyderco knives. One is good, more is/can be better.

Beretta is a peer shotgun just as the FAL, G3, and M14 are peer battle rifles ( not assault rifles even in the government only full auto mode, these are a different class of weapons). I would enjoy having one greatly. There are a great many things in life I would enjoy owning but it isn't always in the cards. For someone who knows what they are doing like Doc Dan the Beretta can is a world class , top of the line shotgun capable of getting the most out of the shotguns true capability, which can be very versatile if the full range of ammunition is available. Military only but opens up new capabilities for shotguns: http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/FRAG%2012.pdf

The .308 rifles are a bit much for most home defense weapons, just like full power hunting rifles but they can be used in a pinch if one insures to not be shooting anywhere the power and penetration of these rifles endangers anyone else. They can go end to end through a couple of these cheaply built townhomes I live in and that needs to be taken into consideration.

AR's can over penetrate in the wrong circumstances but with the right loads and tactics they are fully as safe in a townhome situation as any shotgun or 9mm class pistol.
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Re: AR carbine for home defense

#29

Post by RanCoWeAla »

You can't rely on just one single gun for home defense especially if you live In the boonies like I do. I think I would have to say that I pretty much agree with everyone. The AR15 is a safe gun by that I mean gun safe. Because of theft and the price of a decent AR its no something you're going to leave standing in the corner all the time. I have a S&W Mode 64-3 loaded with the old FBI Thumper loads I call them in the Coffee table drawer where I sit and watch TV. Then I have a Glock 19 that sleeps with me loaded with Federal 9BP Hollow points and 33 Round magazine in a gallon zip lock bag under the bd in case reload is required. The AR 15 a d short barreled shotgun with rifle sights are in the safe.
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