What Are You Reading ?

[Enkidude]

I still did like it, but not as much as "Cat's Cradle," and probably not as much as it is raved about.

Interestingly, I also liked Cat's Cradle better, but of the books I've read of his, S5 was last place, and CC second to last place. Of the books I've read, I'd rank them thusly:

1st: Galapagos. Why this isn't his most talked about book I have no idea. Maybe people get tired of the devices and see where it's going? I found his comments on the survival instinct and evolution to be amazingly astute. I also loved "the authors" amoral view (not: immoral), in that all human survival strategies were valid (in the same way we don't vilify the lion and mourn the antelope).
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A far 2nd: Sirens of Titan. Absolutely astounding predictions on technology, written in an era before the handheld calculator! Only far from 1st due to how good Galapagos is.
A close 3rd: Player Piano. Peters out in the end, although lack of satisfying conclusion is a bit of a Vonnegut staple. Probably interested me more than usual being an engineer.
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A somewhat far 4th: Cats Cradle. The concept of church v state and it being the dumbshow that keeps the masses in line is uninteresting to me, although the characters are very alive in this one.
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A similarly far 5th, that's as far from 4th as 4th was from 3rd: Slaughterhouse Five. I just could not get over the jumping around, and I was reading it voraciously, almost desperately, to try to make some sense out of what was going on. It was like dumping a puzzle out onto a table: you try to turn over all the pieces as fast as possible to see where they might fit, but the activity of turning them over is joyless. Honestly I think this one is mostly popular due to its anti-war message and when it was first published (1969). Right place right time kind of thing.

Oh geez, I'm going to read S5 next. I have "Breakfast of Champions" lined up after S5. Has anyone read that one?

[tvenuto]

Oh geez, I'm going to read S5 next. I have "Breakfast of Champions" lined up after S5. Has anyone read that one?

I have not, but would like to. Overall I'm a Vonnegut fan, and the above it just a ranking of only Vonnegut books. I've certainly read worse books than S5, but I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed everything above Cat's Cradle. I didn't regret reading Cat's Cradle, but didn't love it.

[Enkidude]

Oh geez, I'm going to read S5 next. I have "Breakfast of Champions" lined up after S5. Has anyone read that one?

I have not, but would like to. Overall I'm a Vonnegut fan, and the above it just a ranking of only Vonnegut books. I've certainly read worse books than S5, but I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed everything above Cat's Cradle. I didn't regret reading Cat's Cradle, but didn't love it.

Oh I see. That makes me feel better about it. I've read so much praise for Vonnegut I wanted to start with his most lauded book, so S5 it is. Though I hear a lot about Cat's Cradle too.

[demoncase]

If anything, Vonnegut's writing suffers the 'ill' of many of his SF contemporaries in tending toward '1 dimensional charachters' that are there to move the story around and not much else....Though nowhere near as bad as Clifford Simak or Arthur C.Clarke who I enjoy the stories of but both of them fail to develop anything like a relatable charachter in either their short or long-novel stories....Guess they were all too busy building worlds for the people to inhabit that they forgot to build the people too

I even wrote that the characters were "very alive" in CC, even before I saw your post. I hadn't thought about it this way previously, but obviously had a sense that in some of his stories the characters were not very fleshed out. I don't read much SciFi so I wasn't as aware this was a common issue.

As an aside, I found this to be the worst feature of Dune, where the characters were so ridiculously one-dimensional, or downright implausible, that it was completely distracting. Also, you viewed the entire world from a bird's eye view. There were some amazing features, but no satisfying intimate detail. What's worse is that I am 100% sure that he felt he was fleshing it out wonderfully, and was totally unaware of this shortcoming. But we're not talking about my beefs with Dune here, haha.

110% with you on Dune....And it's also a series that practically defines the Law Of Diminishing Returns- you can literally use the declining quality of the plots on a classic exponential half-life graph.

I compare those 70s novels with (say) Terry Pratchett and Iain M.Banks who create worlds of unbelievable depth, with true focus on the details and characters that really resonate...Well, it doesn't compare.

[tvenuto]

110% with you on Dune....And it's also a series that practically defines the Law Of Diminishing Returns- you can literally use the declining quality of the plots on a classic exponential half-life graph.

I compare those 70s novels with (say) Terry Pratchett and Iain M.Banks who create worlds of unbelievable depth, with true focus on the details and characters that really resonate...Well, it doesn't compare.

Yea suffice to say the original Dune, although I'm glad I read it, didn't leave me needing to read the sequels.

Anything in particular you'd recommend from those other authors you mentioned?

[bearfacedkiller]

I usually have one fiction and one nonfiction going at the same time.

Currently:

Minority Report -Philip K. Dick

On KIlling -Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman

[chuckd]

I still did like it, but not as much as "Cat's Cradle," and probably not as much as it is raved about.

Interestingly, I also liked Cat's Cradle better, but of the books I've read of his, S5 was last place, and CC second to last place. Of the books I've read, I'd rank them thusly:

1st: Galapagos. Why this isn't his most talked about book I have no idea. Maybe people get tired of the devices and see where it's going? I found his comments on the survival instinct and evolution to be amazingly astute. I also loved "the authors" amoral view (not: immoral), in that all human survival strategies were valid (in the same way we don't vilify the lion and mourn the antelope).
.
.
A far 2nd: Sirens of Titan. Absolutely astounding predictions on technology, written in an era before the handheld calculator! Only far from 1st due to how good Galapagos is.
A close 3rd: Player Piano. Peters out in the end, although lack of satisfying conclusion is a bit of a Vonnegut staple. Probably interested me more than usual being an engineer.
.
A somewhat far 4th: Cats Cradle. The concept of church v state and it being the dumbshow that keeps the masses in line is uninteresting to me, although the characters are very alive in this one.
.
A similarly far 5th, that's as far from 4th as 4th was from 3rd: Slaughterhouse Five. I just could not get over the jumping around, and I was reading it voraciously, almost desperately, to try to make some sense out of what was going on. It was like dumping a puzzle out onto a table: you try to turn over all the pieces as fast as possible to see where they might fit, but the activity of turning them over is joyless. Honestly I think this one is mostly popular due to its anti-war message and when it was first published (1969). Right place right time kind of thing.

Well, I will certainly be starting with your list when I read Vonnegut again! It is strange how some books get so much attention, yet are not necessarily the authors best work.

I was definitely looking for more in 'S5', and read it fairly quickly, but it just did not develop well. It almost seemed like there were some personal demons of his holding back more. There is so much potential in the story that I wish he would have gone deeper into the sci-fi and/or the personal experience portions of the story.

Though, on a side note, my fiance got my the book (S5) for my birthday the other day. It is a gorgeous first edition in great condition (collecting awesome books is a bit of a hobby of mine, too).

[demoncase]

110% with you on Dune....And it's also a series that practically defines the Law Of Diminishing Returns- you can literally use the declining quality of the plots on a classic exponential half-life graph.

I compare those 70s novels with (say) Terry Pratchett and Iain M.Banks who create worlds of unbelievable depth, with true focus on the details and characters that really resonate...Well, it doesn't compare.

Yea suffice to say the original Dune, although I'm glad I read it, didn't leave me needing to read the sequels.

Anything in particular you'd recommend from those other authors you mentioned?

Oh yes indeed:

Terry Pratchett- "Guards, Guards!" or "Wyrd Sisters" is a good jumping off point if you want make a trip to Discworld....I was hooked many a decade ago, and 30 books later he's still a favourite.....It's fantasy, with a familiar edge, with gags, but a serious streak hidden under the surface- call it 'stealth philosophy'

Iain M.Banks- "Use Of Weapons" or "Excession" (for a jumping off point into the Culture novels) or "The Algebraist" (for probably the best of his stand alone sci-fis)

[HorserloverFat]

110% with you on Dune....And it's also a series that practically defines the Law Of Diminishing Returns- you can literally use the declining quality of the plots on a classic exponential half-life graph.

I compare those 70s novels with (say) Terry Pratchett and Iain M.Banks who create worlds of unbelievable depth, with true focus on the details and characters that really resonate...Well, it doesn't compare.

Yea suffice to say the original Dune, although I'm glad I read it, didn't leave me needing to read the sequels.

Anything in particular you'd recommend from those other authors you mentioned?

Oh yes indeed:

Terry Pratchett- "Guards, Guards!" or "Wyrd Sisters" is a good jumping off point if you want make a trip to Discworld....I was hooked many a decade ago, and 30 books later he's still a favourite.....It's fantasy, with a familiar edge, with gags, but a serious streak hidden under the surface- call it 'stealth philosophy'

Iain M.Banks- "Use Of Weapons" or "Excession" (for a jumping off point into the Culture novels) or "The Algebraist" (for probably the best of his stand alone sci-fis)

Mr. Pratchett was a sensible bloke : https://youtu.be/lhwj8kk_E6c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Monocrom]

Currently, Bram Stoker's classic "Dracula."

[tvenuto]

Oh yes indeed:

Terry Pratchett- "Guards, Guards!" or "Wyrd Sisters" is a good jumping off point if you want make a trip to Discworld....I was hooked many a decade ago, and 30 books later he's still a favourite.....It's fantasy, with a familiar edge, with gags, but a serious streak hidden under the surface- call it 'stealth philosophy'

Iain M.Banks- "Use Of Weapons" or "Excession" (for a jumping off point into the Culture novels) or "The Algebraist" (for probably the best of his stand alone sci-fis)

I realized once I started looking these up on Goodreads that I've already read some Pratchett, in the form of Good Omens. I randomly read this in high school and found it to be quite smart and entertaining. Being in a Catholic high school at the time gave me an interesting perspective on the religious satire as well. I think I'll pick up "Guards, Guards!" next.

[MichaelScott]

Got The Wright Brothers and am reading it slowly. Just to savor it. Also the Great War and Modern Memory by Paul Fusell who survived WWII as a combat infantryman.

[demoncase]

Oh yes indeed:

Terry Pratchett- "Guards, Guards!" or "Wyrd Sisters" is a good jumping off point if you want make a trip to Discworld....I was hooked many a decade ago, and 30 books later he's still a favourite.....It's fantasy, with a familiar edge, with gags, but a serious streak hidden under the surface- call it 'stealth philosophy'

Iain M.Banks- "Use Of Weapons" or "Excession" (for a jumping off point into the Culture novels) or "The Algebraist" (for probably the best of his stand alone sci-fis)

I realized once I started looking these up on Goodreads that I've already read some Pratchett, in the form of Good Omens. I randomly read this in high school and found it to be quite smart and entertaining. Being in a Catholic high school at the time gave me an interesting perspective on the religious satire as well. I think I'll pick up "Guards, Guards!" next.

Oooh- then give Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" or "Neverwhere" a try- The latter was made into a series on BBC TV yonks ago, but still worth a watch.

[tvenuto]

And the "To Read" list grows...

For those interested, GoodReads has a "Good Minds Suggest" list of book recommendations. Authors recommend 5 books within a similar vein. They're consolidated here, and it's a great way to get the creative juices flowing if you're looking for something new.

[HorserloverFat]

Five Books is another good website in a similar vein : http://fivebooks.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Enkidude]

I finished A Farewell to Arms. Meh, not my cup of tea.

Started Slaughterhouse 5 and it's great so far. I will definitely be reading more Vonnegut.

[RanCoWeAla]

Blood Moons by Mark Biltz

[jabba359]

I finally read Dune this past year and really liked it. Guess I'm sort of in the minority here.

While at the used bookstore by my house today, I looked around for some Vonnegut and all they had was Cat's Cradle. I enjoyed Slaughterhouse-Five and thought Breakfast of Champions was mediocre, but haven't read anything else by him yet, even though he's on my to-read list. I'll have to track down some of the titles tvenuto recommended.

[demoncase]

I finally read Dune this past year and really liked it. Guess I'm sort of in the minority here.
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Oh, don't get me wrong- I enjoyed Dune....It's a wonderfully realised world. But what it lacks is that, in taking so long to create this rich and densely layered world with Dune at it's centre, Herbert seemed to only sketch out the people walking around in it- they seem to have no 'inner voice'....Further: There's little 'background colour'- every thing described in each scene is directly related to the plot and moving it forward.

Take Terry Pratchett's 'Watch' story arcs in the Discworld books or Iain M.Banks Culture series- we get a sense of Ankh-Morpork or the inside of a megatonne General Contact Unit ship being a real, living place as things are described as happening that are unrelated to the movement of the plot (and the people involved in it) but noted for 'background colour'....Which is how real people really experience the world- there stuff happening around us that simply has no impact on our lives all the time.

It's still a sci-fi classic- and one which others are rightly judged....The whole spice/messiah bit has *ahem* "heavily influence" whole scads of Sci-fi plots on TV, film and games
But that's not to say it's a flawless diamond without improvement.

(And I stated before, I'm probably more harsh than is truly fair, as the sequels are horribly contrived in plot to a point of me saying "Huh!?" and putting God Emporer Of Dune down for about 3 months before I could face the writing style again)

[tvenuto]

Haha spot on in your eval, Demon. I too enjoyed Dune, and read it quite quickly. However, its flaws were apparent and disappointing because the story had so much potential. I really loved his vision of the future and the way the ruling class has come full circle to feudal times. Also, and I think he was quite accurate in creating the mores and folkways of a native group to whom water is an unimaginably precious resource.

My wife took the liberty of selecting a book off my Goodreads list, and she got me The Black Swan, by Nassim Taleb. It's one of those books that, even beyond the content being amazing, just makes you wish you could jump through the pages and hang out with the author. It's as though you can see how, given 100 years, the thoughts you are having now would lead to the ideas he's expressing to you. But it would take you another 100 years to communicate them as eloquently.

The book itself is about how many facets of modern life don't work like we think they do, due to the way our brain has evolved. We seek constant narratives to explain our world, as well as simple cause/effect pairs (I got thirsty and the water fixed it). Thus, we can't predict, or even accept sometimes, that the world doesn't work that way anymore. The title is in reference to the belief that all swans were white, until a black one was seen. That single observation was infinitely more valuable than the millions of observations of white ones.