Martial arts or self defense anyone?

[Knivesinedc]

Just curious to see if any of my fellow forumites have any experiences/comments/encounters with martial arts.
I currently take judo and my dojo is starting a self defense class all about street fighting, disarming weapons etc. Anyone else have fighting experience? -Jake-

[chuck_roxas45]

Fighting or training experience?

[LC Kid]

Hi Folks!

Fighting or training experience?

I've practicing Martial Arts since I was 7 years old, at what is considered the most traditional Old School japanese Karate style: Ryobu Kai. I became a Sensei at 18, and currently teach my Kyus as a 5th Dan Black Belt, since almost 7 years ago. :cool:

So, do you mean how many people have I crushed in open competition? Actually that would be a huge lot. :rolleyes:

Or do you refer how Martial Arts can help you develop natural and effective Self Defense techniques that you might be forced to use given the situation? :)

[Blerv]

I did TKD growing up. Last few years spent casually training with a friend who's a black belt in BJJ and who fought Muay professionally in Thailand for about a decade.

It's a very fun hobby with some practical application. Your Judo base is great. I would just get a good mouth guard, some MMA gloves, and find someone to lob light strikes at you. IMHO, any place that works drills without intensity is opening you up for a surprise. Being crashed into is way different than standing at fencing distances and working technique.

No fights here. We train pretty hard though. Plenty of bruises and fat lips.

[twinboysdad]

Judo for a year, Brazillian jiu jitsu for 6 months and Muay Thai for 3 months but all over 8 years ago. If you love an art, do it and enjoy. If you want to learn to fight find an MMA school or at least a grappling art and a striking art that have real live sparring. Think judo/wrestling coupled with boxing/kick boxing.

[Knivesinedc]

IMHO, any place that works drills without intensity is opening you up for a surprise. Being crashed into is way different than standing at fencing distances and working technique.

Not at all what we do. Sometimes it can appear that way in judo, mainly during the introduction to a new move or technique as the judoka are getting used to the new move, but once they have it, its scary how quickly and hard you can be put on the ground. But trust me, we get thrown around and crashed into plenty :D

[chuck_roxas45]

I'll just say that training helps a lot but few methods will prepare you against an attack by a determined and experienced street thug.

[Blerv]

IMHO, any place that works drills without intensity is opening you up for a surprise. Being crashed into is way different than standing at fencing distances and working technique.

Not at all what we do. Sometimes it can appear that way in judo, mainly during the introduction to a new move or technique as the judoka are getting used to the new move, but once they have it, its scary how quickly and hard you can be put on the ground. But trust me, we get thrown around and crashed into plenty :D

Oh sorry, I wasn't thinking Judo with that comment. Hard to "punch the air" when you are required to toss people around .

Striking classes tend to gear people towards competition (MMA gyms) or fitness (100% pad work). If you can find someone, or a class that incorporates some intensity with proper technique that's the best scenario, IMHO. There are combative folks just trying to make a buck too. These organizations can be VERY profitable and that doesn't always line up with the right instruction.

If you are near LA you might look up Martin Wheeler at "The Academy: Beverly Hills". I have a friend with a number of K-1 fights who trained with him and has nothing but great things to say. Plenty of other good ones out there too. Just avoid places with more members than a community college. :p

[bearfacedkiller]

I am not intending to devalue proper training but unfortunately it is very hard to recreate actual SD scenarios in the gym. I am not proud of it but I have been in my fair share of scraps as a kid and young adult. I was never very big and even now as an adult I am 6 foot tall and hover around 145 lbs. As a skinny kid I was a target for bullying and just being shook down. I grew up in an area outside Boston where you had to be a little bit aggressive just to get by and I learned at a young age not to take too much from anyone. Sad, because I am actually a super passive person. However, I learned at a young age that I had a hard head and that I was hard to knock out. I also learned that even if you took a good whoopin that you would often times get left alone after that. I also learned that it wasn't the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog. My parents thought that signing me up for karate would help me out but honestly none of it ever seemed to help even though I did very well at it. I got my black belt and won a few medals but street fighting is just street fighting, MMA wasn't even a thing then and I remember UFC 1 very well. It is crazy how far that has come. I do believe that is probably your best bet. I also learned at a young age that you didn't want to fight a wrestler.

Self defense, like most survival, is more instinct and state of mind than anything else and there is no replacement for having been there and having done that and having established a good bit of muscle memory. I have taken some hard hits in fights and not even known I was hit until after the fight. You can slip into a strange state when all of that adrenaline gets flowing. I always found it hard to be logical and deliberate in those situations and have just relied on instinct.

My point is, stay in shape and never fear anybody. Get into an MMA or wrestling program and spar, spar, spar. Always try to avoid trouble but never give anything but 110% when it hits the fan.

[tvenuto]

I also learned at a young age that you didn't want to fight a wrestler.

True, that.

Self defense, like most survival, is more instinct and state of mind than anything else and there is no replacement for having been there and having done that and having established a good bit of muscle memory. I have taken some hard hits in fights and not even known I was hit until after the fight. You can slip into a strange state when all of that adrenaline gets flowing. I always found it hard to be logical and deliberate in those situations and have just relied on instinct.

My point is, stay in shape and never fear anybody. Get into an MMA or wrestling program and spar, spar, spar. Always try to avoid trouble but never give anything but 110% when it hits the fan.

Via CrossFit I was introduced to Tony Blauer's Spear System, which utilizes the startle/flinch reaction and trains you to turn it into an offensive reaction. I took a seminar with him and he's quite a good instructor, and teaches that the will to fight is the most important thing. He often joked that if you're expecting to intercept a punch with "wax on" then you're likely going to be surprised how ineffective that is when the punch actually comes for real.

Also, carrying a Yo2 doesn't hurt.

[Monocrom]

Traditional Martial Arts has its place in self-defense. But much of what I've seen is quite frankly useless. I have recommended Judo to others. But mainly in learning how to fall without getting hurt if one is thrown. Also, if one gets lucky in encountering an attacker with loose fitting clothing.

[Studey]

I've spent a little over a decade training in a variety of disciplines. Some on the seminar circuit, some locally, some kn my own.

I trained Mike Janich's MBC off an on for around 7 years, heavily for about 3.
I've done 5 or 6 ShivWorks classes with SouthNarc.
I worked both of the above heavily on my own and with a couple of local groups.
I also spent about two and a half years in Judo with an EXCELLENT instructor.
And then the odd thing here and there...some other seminars, spent some time doing basic wrestling with a buddy who was very good, etc.
And I've shot since I was a child, shot very seriously for about the same time period, 10-11 years.

Ended up with an eclectic mix of FMA, combatives, and grappling, with a heavy emphasis on weapons access and use at 0-5 feet.

I now run a local training group where we do a variety of things. It's been very pleasing to me to see the progress that members in that group have made.


There have been some excellent points made regarding intensity, and that's critical. Once we have people learn the basic default positions, and which they like best, they start having people try to punch them.

Just a few days ago, we had our latest session, with the emphasis being on shooting with an elevated heart rate. Did things like 30 seconds of all out striking, whipping a heavy climbing rope for 30 seconds, running with a 60 pound sandbag, covering up from a barrage of blows and then counter striking, each followed by shooting a specific drill.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What is a good martial art that you recommend for someone who wants to have a basic and effective unarmed self-defense skill, that does not risk breaking bones during training and learning the martial art?

Ie, which one is least likely to lead to broken bones during study and training?

[Studey]

What is a good martial art that you recommend for someone who wants to have a basic and effective unarmed self-defense skill, that does not risk breaking bones during training and learning the martial art?

Ie, which one is least likely to lead to broken bones during study and training?

Breaking limbs should NOT be a concern in training. If it is, you need to find a new school/instructor/partner. Training hard always carries inherent risks, but that crap is generally not tolerated anywhere reputable.

Where you learn is always going to be more important than what you learn. A good instructor makes ALL the difference. That said...look at Judo, Krav Maga, and a good MMA or boxing gym. Any of those will serve you well so long as the instructor isn't just doing sport stuff. Any of those applied violently and with intent will work well, and shouldn't have too much fluff.

Judo and MMA or BJJ will teach you how to survive on the ground, which is important. Notice I didn't say 'fight' on the ground, because that's a bad idea. The goal is to get back to your feet as quickly as possible, and those will teach you to get to a dominant position (on top) and from there you can stand back up.

Also, look at the seminar circuit. $300-$400 will get a weekends worth of trainkng that you can then continue to develop on your own, and worst case, they'll give you a baseline to help judge other material from. Mike Janich, SouthNarc (Shivworks), Bill Kipp (FAST defense), Dom Raso (Dynamis), and Kelly McCann are all top notch guys that would be worth checking out.

[Blerv]

What is a good martial art that you recommend for someone who wants to have a basic and effective unarmed self-defense skill, that does not risk breaking bones during training and learning the martial art?

Ie, which one is least likely to lead to broken bones during study and training?

In my experience two places that see the most injuries:

1. Joint hyper-extension during grappling (eg: BJJ). Typically with overzealous lower belts, young people, or an unwillingness to "tap" due to ego.
2. Poor punching technique and extremely dense objects such as heavy bags.

If you work slowly with people who have an ounce of empathy injuries in grappling don't have to be common place. You are still going to tweak knees and small bones (fingers) just based on angles and expectations for these body parts. Striking heavy bags without wraps and gloves using poor form (for bag work) is an easy way to get a Boxer's Fracture or even tweaking your wrist. In a similar way poor targeting with thai kicks on a bag (instep or toes) can end up with a broken ankle. Sticking to open hand strikes, knees and elbows it's almost impossible to injure your own limbs.

During full-contact competition a number of organs and bones are susceptible for injury. That's a whole different ballgame though than most of us hobbyists. :)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you, I took some basic karate (Okinawan based) some years ago and then moved and never got back into it; I remember the instructor always reminding myself and others about the importance of proper breathing, and, keeping one's legs and arms properly bent and flexible, to help avoid injuries, too.