Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Over the past few months since I've joined this great forum, I'll occasionally see one or two of you nonchalantly mention that you can get your knives hair whittling sharp just on the brown SM rods. That absolutely blows my mind. I can get my blades *maybe* shaving sharp on the medium stones, but I've never even achieved hair whittling from the FINE stones. If you don't mind sharing, how do you guys do it?? And is it only on particular steels that you're able to achieve those results?
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
It comes down to these things.
1. Grinding a fresh edge on to the knife. If you dull an edge and give it a few passes on the mediums, chances are you're still working with fatigued steel. Some folks do a 90 degree pass over stones for this reason, to completely dull the edge before they sharpen so they're absolutely sure they've got a fresh edge. Dulled edges often have what looks like micro serrations if you look at them under magnification. When you sharpen this edge the peaks will be sharp while the valleys will still be dull. This is why the blade will feel sharper than before, but it won't be as sharp as a fresh edge.
2. Holding a consistent angle. This is by far the most important part of sharpening. The whole idea behind the sharpmaker is working to reduce how much this variable comes into play, letting you hold your knife at the same angle as you sharpen either side, instead of flipping the knife over each pass like bench stones require. The difference between a good edge and a scary sharp edge is determined by your consistency in hitting the same angle as you sharpen.
3. Clean equipment. Freshly cleaned stones cut the steel better, and provide a cleaner edge. If you have a lot of ground off steel built up on your stones, that will negatively affect your sharpening.
4. Minimal pressure. When you are attacking the apex of the blade and working to form the final edge, minimal pressure always achieves cleaner edges compared to heavier pressure. You should be using light enough finishing strokes that you can use the sharpmaker one handed without using your off hand to hold the base down. Shorter strokes can also help, e.g. using half the length of the rods the last few passes.
5. Alternating passes. Unless you are reprofiling, always use alternating strokes. One pass on one side of the blade, then one pass on the other, repeat. Rather than multiple passes on the same side.
6. While absolutely not required, microbevels help me achieve maximum sharpness. The idea being if you only have to sharpen 1mm or less of steel at the apex to sharpen the knife, that is fewer strokes required to sharpen the knife, which makes it easier to achieve consistency. It is more difficult to hold the same angle for 30 passes than it is 10.
I can make my knives shave with a DMT XX Course. You just need a smooth and consistent stroke.
Works with any blade steel. The easiest for me to get hair whittling sharp are H1, VG10 and S30V.
1. Grinding a fresh edge on to the knife. If you dull an edge and give it a few passes on the mediums, chances are you're still working with fatigued steel. Some folks do a 90 degree pass over stones for this reason, to completely dull the edge before they sharpen so they're absolutely sure they've got a fresh edge. Dulled edges often have what looks like micro serrations if you look at them under magnification. When you sharpen this edge the peaks will be sharp while the valleys will still be dull. This is why the blade will feel sharper than before, but it won't be as sharp as a fresh edge.
2. Holding a consistent angle. This is by far the most important part of sharpening. The whole idea behind the sharpmaker is working to reduce how much this variable comes into play, letting you hold your knife at the same angle as you sharpen either side, instead of flipping the knife over each pass like bench stones require. The difference between a good edge and a scary sharp edge is determined by your consistency in hitting the same angle as you sharpen.
3. Clean equipment. Freshly cleaned stones cut the steel better, and provide a cleaner edge. If you have a lot of ground off steel built up on your stones, that will negatively affect your sharpening.
4. Minimal pressure. When you are attacking the apex of the blade and working to form the final edge, minimal pressure always achieves cleaner edges compared to heavier pressure. You should be using light enough finishing strokes that you can use the sharpmaker one handed without using your off hand to hold the base down. Shorter strokes can also help, e.g. using half the length of the rods the last few passes.
5. Alternating passes. Unless you are reprofiling, always use alternating strokes. One pass on one side of the blade, then one pass on the other, repeat. Rather than multiple passes on the same side.
6. While absolutely not required, microbevels help me achieve maximum sharpness. The idea being if you only have to sharpen 1mm or less of steel at the apex to sharpen the knife, that is fewer strokes required to sharpen the knife, which makes it easier to achieve consistency. It is more difficult to hold the same angle for 30 passes than it is 10.
I can make my knives shave with a DMT XX Course. You just need a smooth and consistent stroke.
Works with any blade steel. The easiest for me to get hair whittling sharp are H1, VG10 and S30V.
Last edited by vivi on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Practice. Practice. Practice.
Two factors affect my ability to do this. Technique and blade steel. My Kershaw Leek can whittle hair coming off of the CBN rods (did this just last night)! My Chapparal takes time with the fine and UF rods. (edit to add: I agree with Vivi on all points... and highlight that it also needs to be a clean edge.)
Your mileage may vary.
I was discouraged by my knife sharpening skills for years... ten years actually (look at my forum join date). Only recently did it finally "click" with me and I can sharpen just about anything into a hair-popping edge.
Two factors affect my ability to do this. Technique and blade steel. My Kershaw Leek can whittle hair coming off of the CBN rods (did this just last night)! My Chapparal takes time with the fine and UF rods. (edit to add: I agree with Vivi on all points... and highlight that it also needs to be a clean edge.)
Your mileage may vary.
I was discouraged by my knife sharpening skills for years... ten years actually (look at my forum join date). Only recently did it finally "click" with me and I can sharpen just about anything into a hair-popping edge.
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
^ Good advice.
I can achieve what you are talking about.
Consistent strokes and very, very light pressure are the key.
Do you have the diamond rods?
If I apex the edge at 30 degrees with the diamond rods and do not produce much of a bur I can usually just move to the 30 degree setting with the brown rods and do a few passes per side and achieve hair whittling. If you have a big bur it will take a few more passes to grind it off. Make sure you hold the knife at a consistent angle and make sure you use no more pressure than the weight of the knife. This has always worked for me.
I can achieve what you are talking about.
Consistent strokes and very, very light pressure are the key.
Do you have the diamond rods?
If I apex the edge at 30 degrees with the diamond rods and do not produce much of a bur I can usually just move to the 30 degree setting with the brown rods and do a few passes per side and achieve hair whittling. If you have a big bur it will take a few more passes to grind it off. Make sure you hold the knife at a consistent angle and make sure you use no more pressure than the weight of the knife. This has always worked for me.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
I will add an endorsement for grinding a fresh bevel with the diamond or CBN rods. I can get my knives hair whittling by microbeveling the factory edge, but it is MUCH easier to bring them to that level of sharpness with the browns once I've put a fresh 30 degree bevel on them with the diamonds.
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Wow, thank you all so much! I've been frustrated with the level of sharpness I've been getting even though I thought I was pretty much following all the right steps, but this has really inspired and encouraged me to give it another go. I've been putting off getting the diamond rods for too long; it really sounds like that's really at the root of my troubles. I just need to pull the trigger.
Thank you all again so much for taking the time. I'll try to remember to report back after the diamond rods come in and I've had some time using them, hopefully with a success story!
Thank you all again so much for taking the time. I'll try to remember to report back after the diamond rods come in and I've had some time using them, hopefully with a success story!
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Just keep at it, Fanch, eventually, you will get there. I'd recommend getting a cheap beater knife with some softer steel for practicing. Reprofile the bevel to 30 degrees with the Diamond or CBT rods then switch to the browns. If all doesn't go well, just start over. I'd recommend a Kershaw Ken Onion Leek (probably the only time I'd recommend anything other than a Spyderco... I just can't stand the thought of damaging a spydie blade) as their blade shape is nice and straight, steel is adequate, holds an edge, but is also easy to sharpen, and it's just fun to play with. You can pick up about any flavor of them for around $30.Fanch_Man wrote:Wow, thank you all so much! I've been frustrated with the level of sharpness I've been getting even though I thought I was pretty much following all the right steps, but this has really inspired and encouraged me to give it another go. I've been putting off getting the diamond rods for too long; it really sounds like that's really at the root of my troubles. I just need to pull the trigger.
Thank you all again so much for taking the time. I'll try to remember to report back after the diamond rods come in and I've had some time using them, hopefully with a success story!
Practice. Practice. Practice.
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
I did not test for hair whittling, but I put my best edge on a D2 blade last night. I reprofiled it until I had a nice full length burr, and then did a microbevel. It was the sharpest blade I have done so far. I am still fairly new to sharpening, but this was shaving hair with zero resistance. Reprofile that sucker and then you should have more luck - get a complete burr and then microbevel
Re: Hair Whittling From the Brown Rods: How Do You Do It?
Hey VIVI?? I've been experimenting a lot lately with my German made F. Dick sharpening steels. I've been doing a lot with my smooth F. Dick "Poliron" sharpening steel and it does really seem to give a good edge that final kiss that it takes to make it straight razor sharp when doing it right. So out of curiosity I just wondered if you ever did anything with a sharpening steel to fine tune a good edge with?
There are a couple of tricks that a lot of the old butchers and meat cutters were keen on when using those smooth sharpening steels that will get those edges to where they will even slice flimsy cigarette rolling paper like a laser>> I haven't gotten it down pat 100% yet but when I do accidentally get it right it just gets scary sharp>> and I think you know what I'm getting at
.
There are a couple of tricks that a lot of the old butchers and meat cutters were keen on when using those smooth sharpening steels that will get those edges to where they will even slice flimsy cigarette rolling paper like a laser>> I haven't gotten it down pat 100% yet but when I do accidentally get it right it just gets scary sharp>> and I think you know what I'm getting at
.