S110v Manix 2 Abuse Continued, Steel and Knife review.

[sbaker345]

Seeing as some people were surprised not just as the steel but at the LW manix itself holding up I decided to test it further, since I wanted to attempt to fix the tip still anyway. And also I know it has been sharpened enough now that no trace of the factory edge remains. Same as last time it has a 36 inclusive edge according to the Wicked Edge. Using my phone as an angle cube suggests its between 34-36.



First I broke off an old dead branch, to whittle on. Unfortunately it was so hard it all I could get were thin strips, So I decided to pound the manix through the branch. Unfortunately, I let go of the manix in order to stabilize the branch, and when it broke the branch It ended up plunging tip first into rocky ground.







After that I decided to pound the blade into the 2x4 I tested on last time, I found another heavy block, and went to town, my hand started to go numb towards the end.




No damage at all, other than towards the tip from being dropped.




Next I cut the same power cable as last time but far more of it to get a more accurate idea.





However I still couldn't detect any damage from the wire other than possibly some micro chipping after cutting into a piece laterally, but I think its just dust.




Next I found this even more nasty stuff. Push cutting wouldn't work so I had to pound the blade into it with a 2x4






Now we are looking at noticeable damage





After that I raided the trash room to see what I could find that might damage or chip the edge but would be reasonable to use a knife on.

Cutting through the thickest parts of an oxyclean bottle posed no challenge.




Next I cut 2 soda cans in half and sliced some strips into them. Edge looked fine.





But will it shave?



nice and smoothly too.


It occurred to me perhaps I didn't cut the cans with the entire blade so I took one of the can halves and drew the entire length of the blade accross it several times.






Now will it shave after that?



Easily.


To finish up my testing I went rambo on a empty can of tomato juice, judging by the rust it is steel. I plunged the blade into the top several times, stuck the tip and twisted it to open up a hole. Then sliced down the sides. I wasn't careful gentle I just tore into the can.





That screwed the edge up big time, it wouldn't shave, nor slice any kind of paper, it still felt like it would cut if it had to due to the chipping but was not any kind of sharp. I took a picture after I clamped the blade and ran a maker across to highlight the damage.






Just for fun this was after I finished.








What observations did I make? I would say s110v at an acceptable angle, 34 degrees inclusive and up, will handle any normal"tough" knife related task, thick plastic? No problem, whittling, go for it. Drop it? It won't shatter. Steel on steel contact appears destructive for s110v, primarily due to chipping. This would be an absolute nightmare for some, more because of the wear resistance during sharpening than the damage.

I would say the biggest weakness to this steel is the sharpening issue. If you have power tools, or a guided system, the fact that the steel may be slightly more prone to damage when abused is a non issue. those with sharpmakers will effectively need to mail it to Spyderco for each ding. Also the manix 2 LW is **** tough. I think the pin construction is a good thing in some ways, the LW native is extremely sensitive and over tightening the body screws will cause it to flex and bind up the mechanism. The ball bearing lock pins the ball bearing between the blade and the solid metal insert which also acts as a stop pin. attached by two pins to the body, This makes the knife as tough as the pinned FRN, Unless enough force is applied to literally tear the insert out of the FRN, it won't become loose or fail. In addition although I am not sure, I think the flex inherit to FRN helps prevent screw stripping, bending or anything else when heavy force is applied. The Manix 2 came to me requiring the slightest wrist flick to close. After all my testing the blade still won't drop free without a tiny bit of motion. I think the fusion of lightweight manix 2 and s110v is a brilliant design, that trades excess durability for performance, but retains enough to not be useless in a pinch.

[Surfingringo]

Awesome testing as usual Baker!! I tend to favor steels on the tougher side but I am a bit less shy of s110v than I was before seeing some of your results.

[twinboysdad]

Holy smokes! Great test and pics. I am really a puss with my knives :)

[sbaker345]

Awesome testing as usual Baker!! I tend to favor steels on the tougher side but I am a bit less shy of s110v than I was before seeing some of your results.

Same here, to both. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to tougher steels will probably not get tested because of cost, I neither have the money nor desire to pay for a discontinued sprint run and mess it up. There is a good chance I might beat on a hap40 endura when they get realized because they are sub 100 and nobody knows what to expect. But for the most part it is too expensive to risk with most knives, it is not just the blade that may take damage. I will be paying VERY close attention to the mule team line now though.

[i am travvy]

Awesome write up. I really enjoyed my s110v manix when I had it. What made me get rid of it was it was a pita to sharpen at times and didn't care much for the handle. For some reason I got hot spots where with the g10 manix I didn't. But I cannot wait for more models with s110v.

[Bodog]

Awesome testing as usual Baker!! I tend to favor steels on the tougher side but I am a bit less shy of s110v than I was before seeing some of your results.

Same here, to both. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to tougher steels will probably not get tested because of cost, I neither have the money nor desire to pay for a discontinued sprint run and mess it up. There is a good chance I might beat on a hap40 endura when they get realized because they are sub 100 and nobody knows what to expect. But for the most part it is too expensive to risk with most knives, it is not just the blade that may take damage. I will be paying VERY close attention to the mule team line now though.

+1

[Surfingringo]

.....There is a good chance I might beat on a hap40 endura when they get realized because they are sub 100 and nobody knows what to expect.

I'll certainly be looking forward to that! If you plan on doing this with multiple steels it would be cool if you could kind of standardize your testing and keep some photo records of how the different steels perform. I'm not saying get crazy sophisticated or anything, I just think it would just be interesting to have a record of how some of these steels compare under the same work/stress.

[MacLaren]

Awesome thread. Thank you.

[sbaker345]

.....There is a good chance I might beat on a hap40 endura when they get realized because they are sub 100 and nobody knows what to expect.

I'll certainly be looking forward to that! If you plan on doing this with multiple steels it would be cool if you could kind of standardize your testing and keep some photo records of how the different steels perform. I'm not saying get crazy sophisticated or anything, I just think it would just be interesting to have a record of how some of these steels compare under the same work/stress.

I have all these pictures as albums on my google account, so no worries there. If I do this again, I do want to make it standardized, the issue so far as been deciding what should be done. I know whittling a 2x4, pounding it into it, stabbing it into the block of wood, cutting some kind of cord, cutting soda cans, cutting soup cans are all somewhat valid tests. Other things like the high tensile wire I would not want to make standard because it doesn't tell much and simply creates more damage and work to fix.

As far as standardizing edge angles I am split, Yes not having identical edge angles can create misleading results. But who honestly would have their knives in m4 and s110v the same edge angle? That could just as easily favor one steel. If a steel at 30 inclusive takes the same damage at 35 inclusive, you can infer the difference. If they end up with a drastic difference then retesting is in order, but I don't want to run a steel at an unrealistically thin or thick angle from the get go, if that makes any sense.

[Surfingringo]

It makes sense but I can see it both ways. If m4 can handle 30 inclusive (for x task) and s90v cannot then that is information I would want to know. Everyone is different but I tend to sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees.

As far as choosing the tests, I guess for this exercise it is important to find tests that actually cause some level of edge failure without doing significant damage.

[Bodog]

It makes sense but I can see it both ways. If m4 can handle 30 inclusive (for x task) and s90v cannot then that is information I would want to know. Everyone is different but I tend to sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees.

As far as choosing the tests, I guess for this exercise it is important to find tests that actually cause some level of edge failure without doing significant damage.

Agreed. I don't even care if it's really standardized as long as what's done is documented and explained. If a guy says S110V at this angle can do this and that, that's cool, it's another piece of the puzzle. Hopefully there will be more guys who show what specific steels from different manufacturers can and cannot do. Pretty soon we'll all start to improve what we know and what we can assume, even without crazy charts and crazy scientific research papers. As long as guys can have faith in their knives and stop pampering them leading to an increase in real usage and subsequent performance increases from all manufacturers, then I'm happy.

I kind of like the fact that a guy wants to try steels at angles he personally thinks makes sense. That's real world usage.

[sbaker345]

It makes sense but I can see it both ways. If m4 can handle 30 inclusive (for x task) and s90v cannot then that is information I would want to know. Everyone is different but I tend to sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees.

As far as choosing the tests, I guess for this exercise it is important to find tests that actually cause some level of edge failure without doing significant damage.

Pretty much, Its a possibility if people actually enjoy my testing I may let people pick the parameters next time, within reason. So far I have picked everything based on what the steel data and others experience have suggested. Basically I used the knives at the angles I would carry them. The issue, as I think you've noticed is what happens when you test hap 40 at 25 degrees against s110v at 40 degrees? But I never EXACTLY meant either test as a direct comparison to another knife or steel, the idea was more to give data points on several steels that myself and others could use along with wear testing, forge data and so forth to based on their use. I am sort of testing every steel in of itself based on my expectations, but in a way that allows people to make comparisons with other tested steels. If that is coherent. Ideally I would test each steel at 25-30-35 and 40 degrees and ankerson would run edge retention tests with those numbers, that would be the only way to directly compare steels, and I may retest at different angles, but that opens up more questions as well.

My biggest reason for not resetting the edges to 30 the first test was that I wasn't sure if s110v would be stable at 30 inclusive, if it held up then we would have learned something, but if it failed horribly, nobody would assume thickening it slightly would put it on par with s30v which is exactly the case.

[elena86]

I sharpen both Manix in S110V and in Cruwear at 17dps, 800 grit and I am very happy.No microbevel.It's not my idea.A Sami native from Norway told me that.He manufactures his own blades and he is very skilled.His mantra is: if your blade has 60-62HRC you sharpen it at 17 dps, 800 grit.

[Ankerson]

It makes sense but I can see it both ways. If m4 can handle 30 inclusive (for x task) and s90v cannot then that is information I would want to know. Everyone is different but I tend to sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees.

As far as choosing the tests, I guess for this exercise it is important to find tests that actually cause some level of edge failure without doing significant damage.

Pretty much, Its a possibility if people actually enjoy my testing I may let people pick the parameters next time, within reason. So far I have picked everything based on what the steel data and others experience have suggested. Basically I used the knives at the angles I would carry them. The issue, as I think you've noticed is what happens when you test hap 40 at 25 degrees against s110v at 40 degrees? But I never EXACTLY meant either test as a direct comparison to another knife or steel, the idea was more to give data points on several steels that myself and others could use along with wear testing, forge data and so forth to based on their use. I am sort of testing every steel in of itself based on my expectations, but in a way that allows people to make comparisons with other tested steels. If that is coherent. Ideally I would test each steel at 25-30-35 and 40 degrees and ankerson would run edge retention tests with those numbers, that would be the only way to directly compare steels, and I may retest at different angles, but that opens up more questions as well.

My biggest reason for not resetting the edges to 30 the first test was that I wasn't sure if s110v would be stable at 30 inclusive, if it held up then we would have learned something, but if it failed horribly, nobody would assume thickening it slightly would put it on par with s30v which is exactly the case.

Well these steels in this class aren't exactly weak as they are tool steels so start using them at stock thickness (.025"-.028") and 18 to 20 DPS and they will hold up to more serious use in general. Start dropping the edge geometry much below 15 DPS and using them for the same types of tasks and some might have some problems depending on what they are doing exactly. It comes down to fitting the edge geometry to the tasks at hand that one wants to use the knife for.

S110V has been a solid steel based on my own experiences with it over the years, never really saw any real issues with it personally and I have pushed it pretty hard from time to time. But as with most things common since comes into play.

Kinda like not using a fillet knife to chop down a tree or try and baton one through a log.

Realistic expectations of the tool in hand and making fine adjustments if needed goes a long way to having positive experiences.

[sbaker345]

It makes sense but I can see it both ways. If m4 can handle 30 inclusive (for x task) and s90v cannot then that is information I would want to know. Everyone is different but I tend to sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees.

As far as choosing the tests, I guess for this exercise it is important to find tests that actually cause some level of edge failure without doing significant damage.

Pretty much, Its a possibility if people actually enjoy my testing I may let people pick the parameters next time, within reason. So far I have picked everything based on what the steel data and others experience have suggested. Basically I used the knives at the angles I would carry them. The issue, as I think you've noticed is what happens when you test hap 40 at 25 degrees against s110v at 40 degrees? But I never EXACTLY meant either test as a direct comparison to another knife or steel, the idea was more to give data points on several steels that myself and others could use along with wear testing, forge data and so forth to based on their use. I am sort of testing every steel in of itself based on my expectations, but in a way that allows people to make comparisons with other tested steels. If that is coherent. Ideally I would test each steel at 25-30-35 and 40 degrees and ankerson would run edge retention tests with those numbers, that would be the only way to directly compare steels, and I may retest at different angles, but that opens up more questions as well.

My biggest reason for not resetting the edges to 30 the first test was that I wasn't sure if s110v would be stable at 30 inclusive, if it held up then we would have learned something, but if it failed horribly, nobody would assume thickening it slightly would put it on par with s30v which is exactly the case.

Well these steels in this class aren't exactly weak as they are tool steels so start using them at stock thickness (.025"-.028") and 18 to 20 DPS and they will hold up to more serious use in general. Start dropping the edge geometry much below 15 DPS and using them for the same types of tasks and some might have some problems depending on what they are doing exactly. It comes down to fitting the edge geometry to the tasks at hand that one wants to use the knife for.

S110V has been a solid steel based on my own experiences with it over the years, never really saw any real issues with it personally and I have pushed it pretty hard from time to time. But as with most things common since comes into play.

Kinda like not using a fillet knife to chop down a tree or try and baton one through a log.

Realistic expectations of the tool in hand and making fine adjustments if needed goes a long way to having positive experiences.

Hence why I try to set the bevels at realistic angles for the steel.


I tested a buck 110 in 420HC at 30 inclusive on the dot, will be reprofiling to 36 inclusive and testing again tomorrow, results were.. interesting.

[chuck_roxas45]

In before the charts and micrographs...

[Surfingringo]

In before the charts and micrographs...

[chuck_roxas45]

In before the charts and micrographs...

t.jpg

LMAO!

[HarleyXJGuy]

Good stuff here. Goes to show that most of us just don't use our knives hard enough to realize any difference between S30V and something "super".

[chuck_roxas45]

Good stuff here. Goes to show that most of us just don't use our knives hard enough to realize any difference between S30V and something "super".

https://youtu.be/W3765b0KhLo