More linerless FRN knives please!!!!

[Donut]

I like lightweight and I don't need super strong. Honestly, I believe the Manix 2 sprint platform with FFG blade and skeletonized liners is about as perfectly balanced between strong and light. But yeah, the Manix 2 lightweight is strong enough.

I need to try the Native 5 Lightweight.

You could make a knife half as light as the Manix 2 Lightweight and make it twice as strong, and you still won't sell the market on strong lightweight knives. =\ Heavy is what the market wants and there are companies that will give it to the market.

[PWork]

I think it's safe to say that the linerless FRN platform has proven itself, and then some. It sure wouldn't bother me any to see more of them being made. :cool:

[sdedalus83]

My normal work pair are both linerless. I have to say, the Native 5 LW is much more rigid than any of the Japanese lockbacks, with or without liners. It has no play or flex whatsoever during heavy cutting.

[Evil D]

Would the introduction of linerless knives with FRN handles be considered a major milestone in knife technology, because, it shows that one does not need a metal-liner for the knife to be strong and durable?

There isn't any introduction or proof to be made...the Salt knives have already proven themselves. There are countless people using them with no issues at all, probably harder than most knives when you consider how many emergency jobs are using Rescues and such. All I'm saying is if there were more options than those specific models, in VG10/H1, and in other grinds than the low hollow grind, I think more people would be drawn into trying them and may realize that liners aren't really necessary for most EDC needs. This is how it has been with me and the Manix LW at least.

[zhyla]

Would the introduction of linerless knives with FRN handles be considered a major milestone in knife technology, because, it shows that one does not need a metal-liner for the knife to be strong and durable?

I've see Roman folding knives with wood handles so I'm gonna say no :)

[bearfacedkiller]

I do not have a problem with linerless FRN, I like all my Salts and Manix LW. But I would also like to see more linerless G10 models, like for instance how the the Dodo and UKPK was constructed.

G10 is plenty strong enough to stand on its own. I understand the problem you have with tapped holes for clip screws etc, so you need small liner sections just for that.

I agree with this. Some more linerless G10 would be great.

[jmh58]

Bring back Delica 3 handles in colors/linerless!! I do like the weight of my Tasman HB and the handle shape!! :cool: John :)

[Skywarp]

I see exactly where you're coming from "Skywarp" but I'll take exception to the FRN Native because I used to not like it for the same reason's you've implied. But when I put my 440V SE Native through a torturous job and didn't even expect it to survive but it did>> And I would have thought that an FRN handled Knife with a liner would have significantly done better but I seriously doubt if one with a Ti or stainless liner would have come through this job any better. And before I experienced that I pretty much thought the same way you are thinking now >> and trust me I know just how good the ones with liners can be too which is why I was very pleasantly surprised.

Hi JD Spydo,
From a practical point of view, I trust Sal's judgement that liners are not necessary but when I pay anything more than the value of a SAK, I like the piece of mind I get from unneccessary sturdiness. It's just my mentallity. I prefer sabre to FFG and clip point to sharp needle points - It's all for the same reason - less likely to suffer damage in moderate use...

[guitarwolf]

I also agree, I have never had a problem with my linerless knives and don't know anyone else who has broken one. I have specifically bought knives based on the light weight alone. I also pass on knives if they are too heavy compared to their capability. My FRN Dragonfly and Salt 1 are carried most often when weight is a factor. If I'm hiking in I have a fixed blade as my primary, and I choose my back-up folder based on weight. I would like to see the delica and endura without liners. Thinner blades would also be welcome.

[Skywarp]

Thinner blades would also be welcome.

:eek:
You're killing me! :)

[Johnnie1801]

I didn't realise how much I would come to like the LW Manix s110v until I started using it. It's a great knife and I'm carrying it almost everyday. It's got to the point where I consciously have to put it down in the mornings and pick up another one of my knives to use.

I'd love to see the LW Manix in more flavors, it's a great format for demonstrating different steels at an affordable price. How about foliage green with s90v or how about a salt version in H1.

I think this all applies to the LW Native as well. I cant wait to get the midnight blue s110v Native :D

[Razzle]

An orange LW Manix 110V would be high on my must have list.

I've only had the new dark blue one for two days, and immediately fell in love with the steel/weight/ergos, etc.

[DutchBlades]

On a smaller knife, it would be great!
On larger knives I´d still prefer liners.
I hate the feeling of FRN flexing in my hands...
But I prefer a less plasticy feel for larger folders anyways.
And as far as the Dragonfly goes, all time favorite back-up blade and sheeple EDC!

[Ray Allen]

Lately nothing has been able to displace my Manix LW S110V from my EDC. What a package! Even people who know nothing about blade steel, which frankly are most, are amazed at the light weight and excellent balance and overall feel.
Cheers...

[JD Spydo]

I see exactly where you're coming from "Skywarp" but I'll take exception to the FRN Native because I used to not like it for the same reason's you've implied. But when I put my 440V SE Native through a torturous job and didn't even expect it to survive but it did>> And I would have thought that an FRN handled Knife with a liner would have significantly done better but I seriously doubt if one with a Ti or stainless liner would have come through this job any better. And before I experienced that I pretty much thought the same way you are thinking now >> and trust me I know just how good the ones with liners can be too which is why I was very pleasantly surprised.

Hi JD Spydo,
From a practical point of view, I trust Sal's judgement that liners are not necessary but when I pay anything more than the value of a SAK, I like the piece of mind I get from unneccessary sturdiness. It's just my mentallity. I prefer sabre to FFG and clip point to sharp needle points - It's all for the same reason - less likely to suffer damage in moderate use...

You make a great point "Skywarp" :cool: There is something to be said about ridgidity and sturdiness and I too like that in a knife. One of my user Spyders that I really like to carry to show off is one of my C-46 Lum Tanto folders. It's built like a reinforced, concrete outhouse :eek: I'm here to tell you that I think you could drop that folder out of an airplane very high up and it wouldn't hurt that folder much at all>> what the heck it might just break it in really good :D

And please realize as much as I like Brother EVIL I'm not in 100% agreement with him on linerless folders. But I do have to call it the way I see it and that 440V,SE Native that is linerless is amazingly impact resistant and almost shock proof>> and I wouldn't have believed it had I not experienced it for myself. I couldn't even imagine my C-111 Captain model not having a liner.

Yeah I agree with you on that aspect because there is something to be said about sturdiness and ridgidity. If those are 2 properties you like about a good folding knife then Sir I highly recommend you check out one of Spyderco's older, ATS-55 era, stainless handled RESCUE models. Those stainless handled RESCUE models are truly a tank of a knife :cool: Not only are they one of my all time favorite Spyderedged blades they are a BRUTE of a folder. Why that model never caught on I'll never know :confused: It's one of the biggest mysteries of Spyderco history and I'll never figure it out. To me it's even more sturdy that some of their premium fixed blades.

Even though I'm not in agreement with linerless knives this is getting to be a very interesting thread for sure. If Spyderco ever starts a radio talk show we'll have to make you one of the hosts EVIL :D

[Evil D]

Sweet. I was always told I have a face for radio

What always surprises me with a topic like this is, when people are opposed to it, it's almost as if they expect a change to ALL knives, which is kinda silly. All I'm proposing is MORE linerless knives, not removing lines from current models.

[Skywarp]

All I'm proposing is MORE linerless knives, not removing lines from current models.

Fair point. My apologies for scaremongering. :o

[stalag2]

I had my share of linerless frn knives ( Merlin, Matriarch, Native, Ladybug ) and i disliked the flex on them, only the Native and Ladybug felt rigid enough for me, the only reason i got into the frn Endura / Delica craze is because of the clip design and added rigidity provided by the liners.
I have trouble to see how one could feel hindered by a few more grams yet i totally see how one could hate the springy feel on the Endura 3 and the rather fragile 'bed' holding the clip plate molded in the frn which i destroyed on 3 of the knives mentionned above.
So i see linerless frn knives as a major step down unless you need total rust proofing as on the Salt serie.
I would love linerless G10 knives though as long they come with a decent and durable clip (no **** wire...)

[JD Spydo]

I had my share of linerless frn knives ( Merlin, Matriarch, Native, Ladybug ) and i disliked the flex on them, only the Native and Ladybug felt rigid enough for me, the only reason i got into the frn Endura / Delica craze is because of the clip design and added rigidity provided by the liners.
I have trouble to see how one could feel hindered by a few more grams yet i totally see how one could hate the springy feel on the Endura 3 and the rather fragile 'bed' holding the clip plate molded in the frn which i destroyed on 3 of the knives mentionned above.
So i see linerless frn knives as a major step down unless you need total rust proofing as on the Salt serie.
I would love linerless G10 knives though as long they come with a decent and durable clip (no **** wire...)

Two great points you make there Stalag>> first and foremost I must be not seeing the forests because of the trees right in front of my face :o I forgot all about the Matriarch not having a liner>> but that knife has always felt so perfect in my hand that I just never even considered it or even deemed it to be necessary for that model. As much as I've always liked the 2 Civilians I've had for some time I would never use one even in SD. Because the Matriarch has truly sold itself on me>> it was Mike Sastre a few years back that challenged me right here on this Forum concerning the Matriarch.

I figured with all the access he has for just about any blade he wants and when he said the Matriarch was his pick >> at that point I got the 2 models out and compared them. It wasn't long that I seen what Mike was talking about>> and at that point I made a determination that the Matriarch was going to be my SD pick out of those 2 models>> I've never looked back and I now have 3 of them. Now on the other hand I've got a good friend who was a big time biker in his younger days and he's big enough to go grizzly bear hunting with a hickory switch :eek: and he has a hand big enough to palm a basketball with ease>> When I introduced him to the Civilian it was truly a match made on top of a Harley :cool: I had to even make a time payment arrangement so he could afford to buy one from me :rolleyes:

So it just depends on many factors whether or not the extra size and reinforcement is necessary>> and in his case it was perfect.

And your point about linerless folders being at an advantage to better suit the H-1 Salt Series>> a very valid point indeed and I too can see why EVIL and other Salt Series fans could benefit with certain models being linerless.

[Blue72]

Anyone who uses their knife for fishing, hunting, outdoors, or just a day at the beach...probably has learned that cleaning out a knife with liners is more work.

I have used my knives in the outdoors extensively and have not noticed frn flex and if it did, it had no impact on getting the job done or had me thinking the knife is not rigid enough

The weight saving is a huge plus, especially those who are into "ultralight" backpacking.