Sharpening newbie question

[jogonmd95]

Greetings and happy holidays everyone.
After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?Just wondering?
Thanks,
Joe

[apollo]

Greetings and happy holidays everyone.
After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?Just wondering?
Thanks,
Joe

i'm not a sharpening hero. But if you really want it just a extra bit sharper the only thing i would do is use a strop after the sharpmaker.
It's easy to make if you do not have one already. Just take a peace of wood and put a peace of old jeans on it. :) Leather is better but jeans works fine. :)

[Surfingringo]

Greetings and happy holidays everyone.
After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?Just wondering?
Thanks,
Joe

How much extra sharpness you looking for? You can shave your face and whittle hair with a knife properly finished on the sharpmaker fine rods. With the extra fines you can do silly things like break a hanging hair in half at the slightest touch.

[JD Spydo]

Greetings and happy holidays everyone.
After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?Just wondering?
Thanks,
Joe

Greetings from one JOE to another JOE :D and welcome to Spyderville :cool: Sharpening steels are a different animal in the sharpening arena and there is a lot of disagreement as to what most sharpening steels are good for. For example John Juranitch of Razor Edge Systems out of Ely, Minnesota USA says that the smooth steels are the only ones you should use. I believed him for the most part until I got some premium sharpening steels from a local restuarant supply house here locally. The ones I got a great deal on were made by F. Dick of Germany. Personally I've had some interesting results using different types of steels out of those F. Dick steels I bought. But I do mostly use the Smooth Poliron model the most myself and it does tend to align an already sharpened edge>> it seemed to slightly burnish the edge which I find somewhat helpful.

There is a guy here on the Forum named Cliff Stamp that has also done a lot of experimenting with different sharpening steels and I kind of hope he chimes in on this one.

If you are using Spyderco's 204 Sharpmaker unit I would first recommend you getting the other sharpening rods available from Spyderco. Spyderco makes an "Ultra-Fine" set of stones you can get for the unit and I do believe you would get great results from using them>> they also make a set of diamond stones you can get for the Sharpmaker unit as well. I recommend to everyone who gets a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker to immediately get the diamond and Ultra-Fine stones. Those extra stones make the unit more complete.

Now getting back to your question about your Wustof sharpening steel. I've never used one of their steels but Wustof's knives sure are great quality blades so I assume their sharpening steels are also good quality>> that is if they are German made. Is your steel a smooth one or does it have micro ridges that run up and down the rod? I think if you get Spyderco's ultra-fine stones for your Sharpmaker unit>> that for right now I believe would be your best bet until you learn more about the use of sharpening steels. Most of the guys I know that use the 204 Sharpmaker don't use sharpening steels at all if that tells you anything.

[Evil D]

I wouldn't bother. Chef's steels are fine for kitchen knives that only cut food but I wouldn't use one for a pocketknife.

[PayneTrain]

I'm pretty familiar with sharpening steels and use them daily at work on their knives and my experience and training tells me a sharpening steel is really not for our knives. They do a good job reforming a damaged edge on the zero hollow ground knives made of cheap steel that we use there, but I believe that is why they work. The steel is so thin and probably relatively soft compared to most of what we use in our Spydercos (I've seen the edges sustain some very strange damage, and that steel bends long before it breaks), that it submits to the sharpening steel easily where I feel our thicker, harder, higher carbide knives just won't gain anything from a steel. I think it's much wiser to use a strop if you really want to refine your edge beyond the range of the Sharpmaker stones.

Now this is all very subjective and hardly backed by any sort of science, so I may be way off. I just don't think steels are useful for quality knives.

[Evil D]

I'm pretty familiar with sharpening steels and use them daily at work on their knives and my experience and training tells me a sharpening steel is really not for our knives. They do a good job reforming a damaged edge on the zero hollow ground knives made of cheap steel that we use there, but I believe that is why they work. The steel is so thin and probably relatively soft compared to most of what we use in our Spydercos (I've seen the edges sustain some very strange damage, and that steel bends long before it breaks), that it submits to the sharpening steel easily where I feel our thicker, harder, higher carbide knives just won't gain anything from a steel. I think it's much wiser to use a strop if you really want to refine your edge beyond the range of the Sharpmaker stones.

Now this is all very subjective and hardly backed by any sort of science, so I may be way off. I just don't think steels are useful for quality knives.

I agree with most of that, but also consider that there are chefs who use very high end kitchen knives made of quality steel who also use steels, so the steel type is only part of the story. The question to ask yourself is, what does a steel have to offer that an ultra fine Sharpmaker rod does not?

[PayneTrain]

Or do they? A friend of mine is working on becoming a professional chef and works in one of the casinos here (I forget which one) and he was taught to use a strop, either by his culinary school or his coworkers. Not saying there aren't chefs out there that don't use steels on nice knives, but maybe the trend is moving away from them? I mean heck, I don't think most chefs appreciate a good knife anyway. I find a lot of chefs in high end restaurants use the same Victorinox, Dexter Russel, Greban, etc. stuff that we use at the market and why not? It works and when you're paying someone to sharpen your knives for you weekly, who cares what it's made of? I think there are knife chefs and non knife chefs, just like us.:)

And I must note, I shouldn't be saying "we" and "use" anymore. I've finally quit that dreadful place after nine and a half years and am moving on to a great new job :D , though I expect I won't be using knives nearly as much.

[Jazz]

I do it all the time. They straighten any imperfections in the edge, and burnish it. My heavily used Salt 1 doesn't lie.

[dbcad]

A good steel can be quite useful :) Worked a sizable kink out of my Temp2 edge using one. I think Jazz is the one that clued me in to that method :D It worked well!!

What you'd be doing with a proper steeling is straightening an edge that has gotten a bit bent with use. It's a good maintenance technique especially for folks that need excellent cutting ability on a frequent basis. Rebending the steel on the edge will cause it to get weaker over time so a proper resharpening is always eventually needed, but for the short term a steel works just fine.

If you're going for crazy sharpness the UF SM stones are nice. A little bit of stropping with a loaded strop to stretch the edge can add an extra short lived wow factor to your edge :D It all depends as always on your own personal use and preference

Keep 'em sharp,

Charlie

[anagarika]

Basically the answer would be no, and an UF sharpmaker rod might work better.

However, as some has stated, it might be useful in certain cases. It depends on the steel rod's hardness and smoothness, as opposed to the blade geometry, steel, heat treat. To study more on this matter, I'd suggest visiting Bladeforums.com, the Maintenance subforum. Some members did a in depth study on burnishing, burr formation (HeaveyHanded, Jason B, bluntcut, to name some).

[Cliff Stamp]

After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?

It often does, but this doesn't indicate what people often think.

Ref : http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pd ... shexps.pdf" target="_blank

In short :

-steeling can easily break pieces out of the edge
-it won't improve the sharpness of an edge already properly sharpened

However for a lot of people who are struggling with sharpening, a steel can remove a lot of the frustration with getting and maintain a high sharpness. Keep in mind not everyone is as hard core about knives and just looks at them in a very basic way and using a steel lightly on knives which are only used lightly can keep a knife cutting for a very long time.

[jogonmd95]

Thank you everyone for your inputs and suggestions. Learning a lot.What a great site!

[jackknifeh]

Greetings and happy holidays everyone.
After using the SHarpmaker would it add extra sharpness to the knife by finishing off with a sharpening steel(Wustof)?Just wondering?
Thanks,
Joe

Two things about sharpening steels that I care about. Like a lot of tools if you know how to use them and have practiced a lot they can work great. I understand them but haven't used them enough be be good at it. I have DULLED every knife I tried to sharpen on a "steel" because I'm not good at using them. The other thing I care about with steels is I see people on tv or in the movies using them and using trailing strokes. The idea is to straighten out a burr or folded place on the edge apex. I didn't realize how bad of an idea this can be until reading posts by Cliff Stamp. If you have a burr on one side of the edge that steel is weak and can snap off during use leaving the edge cutting poorly. Then if you straighten the edge by folding the burr back straight the edge will feel sharp but the folded back (straightened) steel is even weaker now after being folded. So it can snap off during use and leave the edge dull. I don't guess this means a steel is a bad tool. Any tool is good when used properly. The only thing that is important is that both bevels on the edge meet at the edge apex with no burr or deformity. Then you will have a sharp edge that will last as long as possible. If someone can get this properly formed edge using a sharpening steel then it's good. I think if you use push strokes you would be better off. By using push strokes you won't be straightening a folded edge out straight. Push strokes should grind away the folded steel or burr. By using very light pressure you won't form a new burr on the other side and the edge should be ok.

Just my opinions and I hope it made sense. Personally, I'd stick with just using stones. If you can get a really sharp edge with sharpening stones the edge can be refined by using a strop. The same issue of folding a burr out straight can still happen but if you use very light pressure and keep the proper angle for the edge they can add a nice "additional" sharpness. Keep in mind though when you get these super sharp edges the steel is so very thin right at the edge apex it will be weaker and the super razor sharpness may not last. But, if you have a VERY sharp knife without the super razor sharpness you should have a good, very sharp knife that will hold the edge for a good while. Lots of this will depend on the use of the knife of course. Whew! My fingers got tired. :)

Jack