Sal, any interest in a Stockman slip it?

[xinam]

I was a mad collector of slips before I found your company. Through many years of use I found that the biggest complaint I had and the majority of others was the difficulty of opening. A lot of people just dont have fingernails strong enough or enough nail for that matter. I have no problems with this but I work with my hands for a living... All of my stockmans have the sheepsfoot blade elevated to the point I can easily pull it free with a pinch. As I mention before, thats my go to blade. Albeit a great utility blade, I think I used it most because of ease of opening. I have no doubt the double dent will be well received and would work great on the sheepsfoot. As far as the clip and spey, well that'd take some doin (redneck :). My absolute favorite stockman is the humpback patten. It offers a spear blade which I find more useful and has a recess on the opposing side which gives your nail something to "lever" against perhaps ease the operation. I find that what makes me like this pattern is the fact that the blades stay recesses nicely in the handle and it retains a nice ergonomic feel in use. I think this is good design because 9 out 10 you'll go for the sheepsfoot, the others sit nicely in the handle. I would personally go for the double dent on the sheeper and the nail nick on the others maybe flanked with small hole?

[sal]

So what are you thinking? bolsters & bone? Carbon fiber or G-10? steel? Country of mfr? Price could be big issue if made in those countries with close dollar value. Three high quality blades from exotic blade steel in a close tolerance folder could get expensive. Made in China, it is far less expensive, but lacks some of the "exotica".

sal

[Ankerson]

I think it would be interesting to see a Spyderco Stockman. :)

I don't think the steel would have to be exotic or anything, maybe something along the lines of N690 or CPM 154 at the most.

Handle material could be something simple and less expensive to help keep the cost in line taking into consideration the very tight tolerances that making a Stockman worth buying would take.

One that the blades didn't rub and wouldn't fall apart and develop a lot of blade play so it would take some serious thought and R&D to actually make it happen at a cost that would be affordable.

Would have to be in the CRK tolerance level neighborhood I believe and with a lot of hand fitting, adjusting etc.

That's a tall order IMO.

[SpyderNut]

Sal,

I would definitely love to see bolsters and bone/synthetics for handle material. Burgundy Linen Micarta would be my first choice. Stainless steel or brass liners would be excellent.

Blade steel: VG-10 would likely work just fine for me. Exotic steels are great, but I'd be satisfied with a more "standard" steel for this model.

Maybe make it in Taichung, if possible and if not too costly.

Maybe try for a single blade version first (like the original Jess Horn) and then look for multiple blade types if it sells well enough (Stockman, Muskrat, etc.).

-Michael

[xinam]

Personally, g10 and bolsters, or maybe some without would be cool. The bolster serves to protect from drops in addition to looks. When I first discovered spyderco and read a review or two I knew I would by at least one knife because it was made in the usa. I have always been a believer in quality so japan was never an issue, germany features some fine engineering along with others. Your company has achieved the impossible with me and my beliefs as I now own a knife from taiwan and believe it to be of highest quality available from a manufacturer :) That said I still believe that if this product was made in the USA even though it would cost considerably more, I believe it would still sell, maybe better and appeal to a broader customer base. Steel isin't really my thing. I use my knife, then I maintain it. To me s30v would be a dream I have been really happy with cpm154. For the first run a quality stainless would be a must, later down the road if its well received runs of carbon steels would be fun :)

[StuntZombie]

What about using the same steel used in the US made UK Pen knives?

[twinboysdad]

Please no s30v. I would like either the CPM 154, vg10, or n690. I would like bolsters and g10 as I linked to the Case Carhartt collabo. I am happy Sal is on this. I would love to see Italy be the country of origin. My biggest hope is that it is more Spyderco than any traditional pattern and that blade wobble is not an issue. Perhaps Spyderco could collabo with a custom maker on the design? I really would like one of the blade serrated, but if you make a stockman I will buy it

[Ankerson]

Please no s30v. I would like either the CPM 154, vg10, or n690. I would like bolsters and g10 as I linked to the Case Carhartt collabo. I am happy Sal is on this. I would love to see Italy be the country of origin. My biggest hope is that it is more Spyderco than any traditional pattern and that blade wobble is not an issue. Perhaps Spyderco could collabo with a custom maker on the design? I really would like one of the blade serrated, but if you make a stockman I will buy it

Blade wobble and rubbing tends to be the biggest issues with traditional production slip joints, don't believe I have ever seen one that's had a lot of use that didn't have it, most have it right out of the box.

I have however seen some customs that are dead tight and with zero blade rubbing, but they aren't cheap at all, some way over the typical CRK price ranges and they are works of art in every way.

The amount of work and attention to detail that goes into making them and the tolerance levels is mind blowing.

[spyder moist]

Oh my a thread that I have been dreaming of for a very long time.
A spyderized traditional sub 3 Inch slippie would be a dream.
I don't think a super high end steel is required. Vg10 ,n690co. Would be great
Liners and bolsters are a must. And would love micarta or polished g-10 handles .

Would also like a Barlow style frame and bolster ,with a mini stretch shaped blade .

[jackknifeh]

I have periods where I really look at a bunch of traditional folders. I recently found a hardware store in town that has a huge selection of Case knives. I have bought a few over the years. I now have a couple of Peanut models. I also got a GEC buckaroo (3 blades, 3.5" closed) which is very similar to a Stockman. I carry it all the time but the times I've used it could be counted on my two hands. I always grab one of my Spyderco knives and I always have at least two. It's a one-hand opening thing for me. I just looked at the Dyad and I like it. I had a byrd Wings once but sold it because I didn't use it. It was my tool box knife. I really should have kept it. Having a PE and SE and being inexpensive made it a perfect work knife. The problem with a Stockman model would be making it possible for all three blades to be one-hand openable. Of course I don't know anything about designing knives. Also, the original suggestion was only for the main blade to have an opening hole. I'll be very interested in what is produced in the future. If it's only wanting a single EDC knife with more than one blade the Dyad looks great. I think I'd use that more than I use the GEC that rides unused in my pocket. I like the GEC. I shopped and searched for a few months before I bought it. It would get used a lot more if I could get it out of my pocket and open it one-handed. Like I could the Dyad. Now you guys have me wanting a Dyad and considering checking prices. :) You may be able to chock up one more sale to forum activity Sal. :) Evil D put up a thread about using only a serrated edge for 6 months. That made me think which knife would I buy because I don't have any serrated edges. The Dyad would fill the bill. It's like you guys got together and planned it so I would have to buy a knife I wasn't even thinking about an hour ago. :mad: :) I don't know whether to be mad or glad. :D

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Blade wobble and rubbing tends to be the biggest issues with traditional production slip joints, don't believe I have ever seen one that's had a lot of use that didn't have it, most have it right out of the box.

I have always thought any knife with a pinned pivot might develop blade wobble over time if it's used even a little bit hard. Same with screw pivots but you can adjust the wobble out of them. Is this accurate do you think? I carried traditional pocket knives all my life and I don't remember if they developed blade play or not. The reason I don't remember is I never cared about blade play until I started buying the more expensive knives a few years ago. I didn't know about a lot of little things I now care about and some I don't care much about but others do. Blade centering when closed for one thing. There are several little things we care about that have nothing to do with how the knife performs. :)

I've seen traditional knives advertised as not having a blade rubbing issue because of the blade slots being seperated with a liner. Wouldn't they still be prone to rubbing on the liner when using pressure in the nail nick to open them? The only traditional pocket knife I have that I care about is my GEC Buckaroo. There are rubbing marks on the wharncliffe and spey blades. They rub when I open the spey blade unless I'm careful not to put enough side pressure when opening it. I don't worry about the rub marks since I consider the GEC a user and any blemishes on the knife from normal use are ok with me. In fact the burnt stag scales don't look like they did when it was new. They are getting darker with age. Especially one of the scales. Weird.

I think a Stockman type Spyderco would be a good seller though. I'd like to see it between 3" and 3.5" closed. Anything bigger seems like might be a bit large in my pocket. Seems a lot of die hard traditional fans would get one. One thing though is it seems most traditional knife fans like the fact that the blade steels used is easy to sharpen at the expense of edge retention. So to make them happy 8Cr13MoV or VG-10 might be a better choice than ZDP-189 (examples). Shoot, Spyderco has the byrd line. Maybe they will establish a "traditional" line of pocket knives. In fact they should probably start looking for a new factory location tomorrow. :) They can build a small factory in my back yard if they want to. :D

Jack

[Ankerson]

Blade wobble and rubbing tends to be the biggest issues with traditional production slip joints, don't believe I have ever seen one that's had a lot of use that didn't have it, most have it right out of the box.

I have always thought any knife with a pinned pivot might develop blade wobble over time if it's used even a little bit hard. Same with screw pivots but you can adjust the wobble out of them. Is this accurate do you think? I carried traditional pocket knives all my life and I don't remember if they developed blade play or not. The reason I don't remember is I never cared about blade play until I started buying the more expensive knives a few years ago. I didn't know about a lot of little things I now care about and some I don't care much about but others do. Blade centering when closed for one thing. There are several little things we care about that have nothing to do with how the knife performs. :)

Yeah they do, never once said they didn't, I always noticed it myself and blade slop the main reason why I stopped carrying them along time ago for EDC.

I've seen traditional knives advertised as not having a blade rubbing issue because of the blade slots being seperated with a liner. Wouldn't they still be prone to rubbing on the liner when using pressure in the nail nick to open them? The only traditional pocket knife I have that I care about is my GEC Buckaroo. There are rubbing marks on the wharncliffe and spey blades. They rub when I open the spey blade unless I'm careful not to put enough side pressure when opening it. I don't worry about the rub marks since I consider the GEC a user and any blemishes on the knife from normal use are ok with me. In fact the burnt stag scales don't look like they did when it was new. They are getting darker with age. Especially one of the scales. Weird.

Yes, they rub on the liners instead of the other blades from what I have seen over the years on the production blades.

I think a Stockman type Spyderco would be a good seller though. I'd like to see it between 3" and 3.5" closed. Anything bigger seems like might be a bit large in my pocket. Seems a lot of die hard traditional fans would get one. One thing though is it seems most traditional knife fans like the fact that the blade steels used is easy to sharpen at the expense of edge retention. So to make them happy 8Cr13MoV or VG-10 might be a better choice than ZDP-189 (examples). Shoot, Spyderco has the byrd line. Maybe they will establish a "traditional" line of pocket knives. In fact they should probably start looking for a new factory location tomorrow. :) They can build a small factory in my back yard if they want to. :D

Jack

[/quote]

Agreed.

[xinam]

I've never experience said blade wobble. Most rub right out of the box... I dont mind so much, but if the blades had a stonewash finish it wouldn't be so apparent.I do agree that separate liners would help but would just rub the liner. Do agree that on a mirror polish it kind of sucks. As far as wobble goes, yeah you could probably use one hard enough to destroy its integrity, but as with most things, you gotta know when to quit.

[Ankerson]

I've never experience said blade wobble. Most rub right out of the box... I dont mind so much, but if the blades had a stonewash finish it wouldn't be so apparent.I do agree that separate liners would help but would just rub the liner. Do agree that on a mirror polish it kind of sucks. As far as wobble goes, yeah you could probably use one hard enough to destroy its integrity, but as with most things, you gotta know when to quit.

I still have a few around and all of them have blade wobble, some are barely used at all and never hard, none of them are what I would call expensive, even back when I got them.

That's why going from what I normally would see to looking at the good customs was so mind blowing for me, you could see the difference in quality and F&F and it was very apparent.

[xinam]

I'm only familiar with case, german eye, canal street, schrade, queen, boker, and bull dog brands. My oldest/first is the uncle henry schrade. It does have some wobble and it was probably there when I bought it in that one horse town gas station :) When I started buying case the quality was noticed instantly. Really, all of the others are great! When I started using them to heavily I looked for another knife. I found the manix2 and was so impressed with it I pretty well gave up the passion for the slip joints though I still keep on handy. Speaking of the manix2 as stout as it is I've seen a video somewhere online of it getting the snot beat out of it and failing also. Mechanical objects have limits :)

[sal]

As Jim mentioned, custom makers really make some great stockman pieces. They are also costly. If we were to make some custom quality pieces, they would also be costly.

sal

[xinam]

If you guys say so it must be true. I've never had the pleasure of handling a custom like that, always looked at my production pieces as good enough. I am certain if I were to spend a lot of jack on a stockman I'd feel better about it being a usa made spyderco. I wouldn't like 300 $ but I'd probably do it, 500$ and I would have to pray on that but might still be in for one. What are we looking at here? I have to admit I'm not the average knife consumer and those sort of price points would miss most. Are my estimates in line with your thinking Mr.G?

[Ankerson]

If you guys say so it must be true. I've never had the pleasure of handling a custom like that, always looked at my production pieces as good enough. I am certain if I were to spend a lot of jack on a stockman I'd feel better about it being a usa made spyderco. I wouldn't like 300 $ but I'd probably do it, 500$ and I would have to pray on that but might still be in for one. What are we looking at here? I have to admit I'm not the average knife consumer and those sort of price points would miss most. Are my estimates in line with your thinking Mr.G?

Kinda of like comparing a Citizen watch from a good Jeweler to a Timex from the Wal-Mart value case to keep things in perspective, for the most part it's just like that.

And they are priced like that too, the ones from the better makers anyway.

But I think it's like most other things people buy, opinions vary and there aren't really any wrong answers. :)

[Doc Dan]

IF it is decided to make such a knife, only the main blade need to be one hand opening. I do not even mind two hand opening like the Pingo and SP-DKY. I would actually PREFER two hand opening.

Also, I would not want something like S30V or M4. Just plain 154CM, N690, or something would be great. I would prefer something easier to sharpen when not around my sharpening apparatus. This, in my mind, would be a working knife and the steel should reflect that.

Bolsters are a must, for me (I bought a G10 Manbug for this reason). Scale material of Micarta, G10, or Carbon Fiber would be fine.
Someone above mentioned Burgundy Micarta (love it) but polished Burgundy G10 would be just as good, maybe better. Burgundy, or some carbon fiber with a colored thread would be great, too.

[xinam]

Yeah, I've since done a search or two... Mind blown... The prices are pretty crazy high but from what I can tell you are paying for phenomenal fit and finish and some really nice materials to boot. The construction looks stronger, though by my estimation they're not tremendously stronger. I HAVE to use my knives, so 1000 plus is out of the question... If money weren't an issue I could see my self on a TA Davison wait list for sure, that man has some made some beautiful stuff. He has a picture or two on his site with a pattern done in carbon fiber, I didn't think I would like that but after seeing it.... sure adds a nice touch.