Need advice on CTS-XHP vs CPM-S35VN

[elena86]

A friend of mine asked my advice on a purchase.He decided to buy a knife as a Christmas gift for himself.He wants an allarounder, a grail
knife,THE KNIFE, and he asked for my advice.He saw my collection and he was very attracted by two of my high-end folders, the Spyderco Slysz Bowie and the Large Sebenza Insingo with micarta inlays.Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN. He balanced the two knives in his hand and for him ergonomics are the same.I am quite biased because am in love with the Bowie these days but I have no real experience with CTS-XHP and I only used my go to small Insingo for light- medium duties and it performed well enough.I know all those stories about Chris Reeve running his S35Vn between 58-59 HRC but it's quite difficult for me to give an educated advice.So I need some help from those who have some real experience with these steels.Thanx

[Blerv]

Honestly, those knives are so different the closest thing they have in common is blade steel chemistry.

I prefer more of a sheepsfoot than a Bowie but prefer Spyderco's HT philosophy and v-bevel to Chris Reeve's convex. Prob the pick would come down on personal aesthetics.

[adancingmonkey]

Personally I think the problem would be, if you're looking for one knife then you can easily get just one Sebenza, but if you get one spyderco they are sort of like pokemon, you gotta catch them all.

[Ankerson]

I would just tell him to get the knife that he likes the best.

[Cliff Stamp]

Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN.

What does he mean by better? Better in what aspect?

[jabba359]

I would just tell him to get the knife that he likes the best.

Ditto. Edge geometry will likely make a larger difference in steel performance between these two than almost anything else. Most people (myself included) would be hard pressed to identify which steel was which if they weren't labelled. For me, overall knife design trumps which of the various high-end steels the knife uses.

[3rdGenRigger]

He could buy a Slysz Bowie, plus another Spyderco or even two more for the same price of the Sebenza...that has to be taken into consideration.

[elena86]

Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN.

What does he mean by better? Better in what aspect?

Edge retention, edge stability.

[ChrisinHove]

He could buy a Slysz Bowie, plus another Spyderco or even two more for the same price of the Sebenza...that has to be taken into consideration.

This is a good point. It is almost like buying a set of spanners/sockets rather than an adjustable wrench: the adjustable works but the right size spanner almost always works better as a tool in any given situation.

Handily, this also fully justifies owning an increasing number of Spydies.

[Surfingringo]

Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN.

What does he mean by better? Better in what aspect?

Edge retention, edge stability.

Hey Marius, I am pretty sure he will not be able to tell the difference in those two steels. Any difference he notes will in all likelihood be due to blade grind, edge geometry, etc..

As far as deciding between those two knives? Meh, there are several ti framelock Spydies I would choose over either one of those so I can't do anything but offer more confusion to that decision...but that never stopped me. For a large glamorous knife that was actually going to be carried and used I would take a ti (fluted or otherwise) Military over those two any day! If he is willing to look at anything smaller and wants a real piece of artwork then the stepped ti chaparral (plain ti or the new blue) is worth a look. My father just got one of those and it is a gorgeous knife. Fluted ti Native also comes to mind.

[Philo Beddoe]

In day to day use I can't hardly tell any difference between S110V and S90V.. It would surprise me if I could tell much difference between S35V and CTS-XHP in day to day use..

Did he try a Para2 and a Domino? The brown Para 2 has a S35V blade and the Domino has a CTS-XHP blade..

I've never had a Sebenza so I can't say for sure but I have read and heard several times that the CR S35V is run soft to make sharpening easier. True? I don't know..

[elena86]

Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN.

What does he mean by better? Better in what aspect?

Edge retention, edge stability.

Hey Marius, I am pretty sure he will not be able to tell the difference in those two steels. Any difference he notes will in all likelihood be due to blade grind, edge geometry, etc..

As far as deciding between those two knives? Meh, there are several ti framelock Spydies I would choose over either one of those so I can't do anything but offer more confusion to that decision...but that never stopped me. For a large glamorous knife that was actually going to be carried and used I would take a ti (fluted or otherwise) Military over those two any day! If he is willing to look at anything smaller and wants a real piece of artwork then the stepped ti chaparral (plain ti or the new blue) is worth a look. My father just got one of those and it is a gorgeous knife. Fluted ti Native also comes to mind.

Lance, unfortunately since I don't have a chaparral he could only choose over the others, but he told me that he doesn't trust back-locks.
He is not a knife nut but he knows alot about mechanisms since he is a mechanical engineer(as I too am) and he knows exactly what he wants.He prefers frame locks or strong liner locks over the other locks.He wants a medium knife with a blade around 80 mm(3.1-3.2 inch) small enough to be a versatile edc but large enough and strong enough to be hard used outdoors or in an emmergency situation if it comes to that.And he prefers a blade with a very good edge stability(he is not interested in corrosion).He liked the insingo blade shape but he was not very happy with the grind.Well, quite a picky guy.And he doesn't want to wait for the Rassenti Nirvana :)

[Ankerson]

Since he wants this knife to be a user he wants to decide based mainly on which steel performs better in real life: CTS-XHP or CPM-S35VN.

What does he mean by better? Better in what aspect?

Edge retention, edge stability.

Edge retention in real use would be close enough that most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two steels.

So what it really comes down to is what the guy likes the most knife wise so in the end it's totally up to him.

Personally I would pick the Slysz Bowie because I don't like the Insingo Blade style, but change that to a Regular Sebenza and I would pick that over the Slysz Bowie, but that's me.

[elena86]

Regular as in BG42 or classic(21) in S35VN ? My friend just did a HRC test on my Techno and it revealed 60-61 HRC.That was decisive for him.
So, he allready ordered a Slysz Bowie.Speaking of Regular Sebenza I am hunting one in BG42 for a loooong time.THAT would be a grail knife for me!!! I am commited to pay 600+ for one :D

[Ankerson]

Regular as in BG42 or classic(21) in S35VN ? My friend just did a HRC test on my Techno and it revealed 60-61 HRC.That was decisive for him.
So, he allready ordered a Slysz Bowie.Speaking of Regular Sebenza I am hunting one in BG42 for a loooong time.THAT would be a grail knife for me!!!

I would say a 21 in either S30V or S35VN or the new 25. :)

Those BG-42 ones are hard to find these days, but keep looking and you may find one.

[Cliff Stamp]

[...]

Edge retention, edge stability.

These can mean the same thing, or the opposite depending on what is being cut, how and how the knife is sharpened. What steels has he used now, what would he describe as having high edge retention or high edge stability? He might not mean what those words mean in the metallurgical sense when he says them. A lot of people for example use tough to mean something very different than what it means metallurgically.

[elena86]

In real life, give me a ffg grind in CTS-XHP 60-61 HRC and I'll take it any time, over a concav-convex grind-bevel S35VN 58-59 HRC Sebenza or not.Being a mechanical engineer I studied a lot of mettalurgy in my first year in university and all that austenitc-martensitic- so on- so on bla bla means ****( scuze my french) compared to what I discovered as an user and I came to admit that there are so many factors that concur to create a great cutting blade.That aside I admit that sience is sience, hi, hi...

[Ankerson]

In real life, give me a ffg grind in CTS-XHP 60-61 HRC and I'll take it any time, over a concav-convex grind-bevel S35VN 58-59 HRC Sebenza or not.Being a mechanical engineer I studied a lot of mettalurgy in my first year in university and all that austenitc-martensitic- so on- so on bla bla means ****( scuze my french) compared to what I discovered as an user and I came to admit that there are so many factors that concur to create a great cutting blade.That aside I admit that sience is sience, hi, hi...

The 58-59 is more of an estimate.

They usually end up on the harder side for what I have seen over the years, Chris Reeve knows what he is doing.

I had 2 Umnunzaans in S30V, sent one to get HRC tested and it was 59.5, not 58-59.

So the only way to be sure is to have it tested to see what it really is, same with most other blades from various manufacturers as they just spec a range.

[elena86]

Let me tell you a real story Ankerson.One of my friends had a small regular Sebenza in BG42 and 10 years later he bought a small sebenza 21 in S30V.After extensive use of both, my friend told me that the regular one in BG42 was a great cutter with excellent edge retention and the one in S30V was, and I quote, a junk ( scuze my french again).He is just an ordinary guy, not a knife-guy, he knows nothing about HRC, metallurgy etc.He is just an user.But I have to admit that he owns a WE sharpener and he is a skilled sharpener.After all, the heart of a knife is the blade.Even for a folder, in my philosophy , the quality of the blade comes first.But I don't mind if that folder is built with tight tolerances in the lock.Tht's why, even if I own 7 Sebenzas , and I admire their tight tolerances and their F&F,I have to say: "chapeau bas" for Spyderco for giving us so many great blades in so many diverse steels.

[Ankerson]

Let me tell you a real story Ankerson.One of my friends had a small regular Sebenza in BG42 and 10 years later he bought a small sebenza 21 in S30V.After extensive use of both, my friend told me that the regular one in BG42 was a great cutter with excellent edge retention and the one in S30V was, and I quote, a junk ( scuze my french again).He is just an ordinary guy, not a knife-guy, he knows nothing about HRC, metallurgy etc.He is just an user.But I have to admit that he owns a WE sharpener and he is a skilled sharpener.After all, the heart of a knife is the blade.Even for a folder, in my philosophy , the quality of the blade comes first.But I don't mind if that folder is built with tight tolerances in the lock.Tht's why, even if I own 7 Sebenzas , and I admire their tight tolerances and their F&F,I have to say: "chapeau bas" for Spyderco for giving us so many great blades in so many diverse steels.

Yeah. :D

Perception can be and is a powerful thing. :)

I tend to lean towards Spyderco also, but I like and have other knives too like a lot of people here.

So I am not going to disagree with your story. :spyder: